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XOOM

Garrison Overstocking - Working & Easy

51 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, xcas said:

Well the problem now is that the axis 88  got dethroned and became the court jester.

I do not think it became dethroned, but those who took the time and effort to make effective use of it have gone on.
The 88 is a deadly annihilator, but that comes at a price of it being a coordinated team operation, it always has.

It is hard to use, but used right, it can reach out and touch from where it can not be touched easily.

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Ressuply Will be from a rear FB to a frontline town, that will be a much shorter travel distance than between two towns like in the past 

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Well, if an overstocked town is taken and the connecting towns are down in supply, they are weakened, but then the towns behind them have supply, so the gap is naturally plugged.  Plus HC will have some brigs to move in as needed.  I think the weakness in the line sort of heals itself unless there is a lot of coordination over a long period of time on the attacking side.

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8 hours ago, GrAnit said:

Well, if an overstocked town is taken and the connecting towns are down in supply, they are weakened, but then the towns behind them have supply, so the gap is naturally plugged.  Plus HC will have some brigs to move in as needed.  I think the weakness in the line sort of heals itself unless there is a lot of coordination over a long period of time on the attacking side.

That’s exactly correct, by design Granit. Good observation.

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8 hours ago, GrAnit said:

Well, if an overstocked town is taken and the connecting towns are down in supply, they are weakened, but then the towns behind them have supply, so the gap is naturally plugged.  Plus HC will have some brigs to move in as needed.  I think the weakness in the line sort of heals itself unless there is a lot of coordination over a long period of time on the attacking side.

@stankyusthat may answer the risk of squads emptying rear towns to overstock their «reserved » supplies.

nb: note that in opposition to my arguments developped in this topic, Xoom is NOT talking about squad-overstock but about the general feature

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On 11/27/2018 at 3:47 AM, Zebbeee said:

10 hours ago, Zebbeee said:
 

Ressuply Will be from a rear FB to a frontline town, that will be a much shorter travel distance than between two towns like in the past


I'm a bit worried that such a model will make it impossible to interdict anything. The area around a town, especially immediately behind the lines is a massive no-go zone. There are very few places to interdict between a rear FB and the front line town unless the direction of travel is flipped (rear city to rear FB, rather than rear FB to frontline city).


for those who didn't see the other post:

FBidea.jpg


Warping is minimized so supply can be interdicted. The drive is shorter than city-to-city, and then rear FB can be used in a precamp situation. 

What are everyone's thoughts on this as a possibility?

 

 

Edited by aismov

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3 hours ago, Zebbeee said:

@stankyusthat may answer the risk of squads emptying rear towns to overstock their «reserved » supplies.

nb: note that in opposition to my arguments developped in this topic, Xoom is NOT talking about squad-overstock but about the general feature

This is why we should have 2 links deep supply.. its a risk/time vrs reward. Overstock should be promoted and worthy. One link chokes supply.  Aismov also pointed out another reason which is key to they hype of TBS.. Interdiction. While I don't have an issue with using rear FBs to cut the distance, though I rather have overstocking not on a silver platter.. it does heavily limit interdiction and as he put it, that golden nugget of air recon of catching a armor column on its way to the front.  Air was not just for shooting down other planes back in the day, it was recon and patrolling.  Columns staged at the rear link town and usually took the road to the front line town then skirted the map. They often came from non-linking towns across no-mans land as to be unpredictable.

I am pushing this, not because I just like it better, I'm pushing it because we need to grow squads. If squads are growing so is the overall population. The ability for squads to change the map with their effort was key to the fun and excitement of the game. Squad chat and the social aspect of the operation was palpable. Joking, and jesting on the long ride, planning, and the anticipation of what the other side was going to do - like [censored] their pants all happened during the preparation phase of the attack. Natural leadership was formed and it attracted players.  The more you trade pb ownership with silver platter aspects (not all) the FMS outstanding) there is more monotony and less squad participation.  Give us the tools and freedom and we will do the rest.

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2 hours ago, stankyus said:

This is why we should have 2 links deep supply.. its a risk/time vrs reward. Overstock should be promoted and worthy. One link chokes supply. 

...

I am pushing this, not because I just like it better, I'm pushing it because we need to grow squads. If squads are growing so is the overall population. The ability for squads to change the map with their effort was key to the fun and excitement of the game. Squad chat and the social aspect of the operation was palpable. Joking, and jesting on the long ride, planning, and the anticipation of what the other side was going to do - like [censored] their pants all happened during the preparation phase of the attack. Natural leadership was formed and it attracted players.  The more you trade pb ownership with silver platter aspects (not all) the FMS outstanding) there is more monotony and less squad participation.  Give us the tools and freedom and we will do the rest.

 

Agree with all of your points 100%. I think you hit the philosophy of earning your keep very well and why it is important for the social aspect of the game.

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I have not followed the topic of resupply closely, but the resupply should from the adjacent town, not from that town’s fb.  FB originated resupply is way too easy and pretty difficult to interdict.  Interdiction used to be one of the funnest parts of the game and should be in 1.36, or that will be a real lost opportunity! 

Edited by GrAnit
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Agree, town to town resupply makes the most sense as far as making the reward/cost ratio worth it. And gives more space for interdiction to happen in. 

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1 hour ago, GrAnit said:

I have not followed the topic of resupply closely, but the resupply should from the adjacent town, not from that town’s fb.  FB originated resupply is way too easy and pretty difficult to interdict.  Interdiction used to be one of the funnest parts of the game and should be in 1.36, or that will be a real lost opportunity! 

 

1 hour ago, raptor34 said:

Agree, town to town resupply makes the most sense as far as making the reward/cost ratio worth it. And gives more space for interdiction to happen in. 

On initial implementation of 1.36, through my testing, I am not seeing the rear forward base popping up with an AO or even contestment on a town. I believe it was discussed and we need to talk about it more. 

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4 hours ago, XOOM said:

 

On initial implementation of 1.36, through my testing, I am not seeing the rear forward base popping up with an AO or even contestment on a town. I believe it was discussed and we need to talk about it more. 

Ok.  That is good, then.  Resupply is from town to town when both have flags.  Great!  And thanks for the clarification, XOOM.

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5 hours ago, XOOM said:

 

On initial implementation of 1.36, through my testing, I am not seeing the rear forward base popping up with an AO or even contestment on a town. I believe it was discussed and we need to talk about it more. 

I am not terribly sure this is a bad idea actually
It creates a larger area of convoy and interdiction area.
More space that is not in town for action to take place.

I think it would probably be fine if the FB remained closed until an AB is lost?

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My biggest concern is that i make most of my missiond from a brigade not on the front for FB busting and a towns defence so if someone has taken all the engineers which not maney anymore anyway then i will not be able to do this effectively anymore, if you make the mission from the town thats being attacked its hard to get out and even harder to do so without being detected.

S!

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2 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

I am not terribly sure this is a bad idea actually
It creates a larger area of convoy and interdiction area.
More space that is not in town for action to take place.

I think it would probably be fine if the FB remained closed until an AB is lost?

That is my thinking as well. But even so with Garrisons, in our testing right now, if you lose the AB supply is still available at the depots via the Garrisons. Which means Garrisons are active until 100% ownership is obtained of the town, and only then once your supply (Garrison) is deactivated in town, you then get your rear FB's brought online.

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I guess I'm not understanding the system because it sounds similar to what we have now. If you lose control of your frontline town, then the FB from your rearline town comes online.

I was under the impression that the rear FB would be online at some specified time that is TBD (active contesting, always on, etc.) and that supply from the rear FB would be from the Garrison of the associated frontline town.

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On 11/25/2018 at 6:17 PM, XOOM said:

Overstocking with the brigade system has been quite painful for years, leading to the decay in this sort of thing happening.

Happy to report we've been able to simplify overstocking by enabling users to simply create a mission from any garrison and be able to despawn and drop that supply into the garrison of your choosing.

Now you mean this is still selecting Resupply Mission, right?  Just town to town?

 

Another key point is you don't want FMS inf spawning and 100 inf get loaded in per hour, right?

Edited by Kilemall

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On 11/25/2018 at 8:30 PM, xcas said:

Now if only you cant set a fms TO THE TOWN YOU ARE OVERSUPPLYING, would be great

No.  It wouldn't.

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/\

What he said.

Resupply needs to be reasonably interdictable by the opposing side. FMS is not reasonably interdictable. Driving to an FB 2 km and then warping 8 km to another town is not reasonably interdictable.

Driving from one town across roads or open terrain to another is reasonably interdictable.

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8 minutes ago, aismov said:

Driving from one town across roads or open terrain to another is reasonably interdictable.

USed to be fun too.
We'd get some hella fights out in open country away from the towns.
The air guys would be out hunting and scouting too.

Trick is to resist trying to camp kill the resuppliers at their town.
That is a losing proposition, they have an AB and Depots to support them.
You want to bring them out beyond rescued range where anything that can no longer move is lost, even if it is not dead.

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4 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Now you mean this is still selecting Resupply Mission, right?  Just town to town?

Garrison --> Garrison = Easy drop, no special mission parameters.

Division HQ --> Brigade = Still painful resupply mission selection and difficult parameters.

4 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Another key point is you don't want FMS inf spawning and 100 inf get loaded in per hour, right?

Not really, would prefer overstocking in this regard be done correctly. I'll have to do some play-testing tonight and see if this can be achieved by setting up a rear Garrison FMS to a forward Garrison. I see @xcasis already thinking of it :D, this makes me concerned enough, hehe. S! 

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18 hours ago, XOOM said:

Garrison --> Garrison = Easy drop, no special mission parameters.

Division HQ --> Brigade = Still painful resupply mission selection and difficult parameters.

Not really, would prefer overstocking in this regard be done correctly. I'll have to do some play-testing tonight and see if this can be achieved by setting up a rear Garrison FMS to a forward Garrison. I see @xcasis already thinking of it :D, this makes me concerned enough, hehe. S! 

Well then Stanky's critique re: Allied disadvantage comes to the fore.  It WILL be easier for Axis to overstock regularly during normal battle operations.

I think if you make it resupply missions only, this will fix the problem.  Can't set a resupply mission to an enemy target town, so all attacking force tickets bounce back to origin and resup has to be done 'after hours' after the battle is over.

Axis would still have a minor advantage running resupply everywhere to towns they are defending, adequate compensation for the possibility of mixed Allied forces.

 

As for the FMS feed, hilariously it's pretty much the same thing as the critics complained about JWBS- virtually no effort resupply, and worse it helps overpop more rather then JWBS being more a help to underpop.

 

And both situations are why you want to talk to players before major things go in.  Rats 1.0 had a tendency to spring major surprises on us all, sometimes I think they had not settled on an approach until a few weeks before golive.  More transparency means we can game out what happens in thought exercises and apply our 'use the system to advantage FTW' brains, saving you subs and time if we are listened to.

 

The more detail we have and the more we have the WHOLE picture of what changes and what doesn't, the better our critique will be.

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