• Announcements

    • HEAVY265

      Crs Wants You!   01/18/2019

      CRS is looking for some volunteer live support chat staff.  Are you up for the assignment?  If so,  please send an email with your interest to,  Jobs@corneredrats.com
XOOM

Proposed LMG Fix

298 posts in this topic

Hey all,

Tonight I dove into the code and our data directory, and I'd like to discuss the following as a compromise for the light machine gun class, which covers the: MG34, Bren Gun and the French FM24/29.

Proposed Changes:

  1. Disable firing while moving under ANY conditions
  2. Increase non-aimed (hip fire) dispersion
  3. Increase hip fire muzzle climb
  4. Make reloading a stationary task (only)
  5. Firing LMG will reduce stamina some (does recover)

This would still enable some sort of firing, but you need to either be stationary, or otherwise deployed supporting your Squad.

The BAR and FG42 are considered automatic rifleman which is why they're not included in these changes.

The other option would be completely disabling firing of the LMG's unless you've deployed your bipod. We think the proposed change can help quell this option however.

These really are the options at this stage other than to maintain the status quo, which we do not believe will be ideal.

Okay, discuss, but be productive.

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

belly ache enough …………… I've watch you guys nerf a lot of stuff and said nothing. This one is a game changer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


You make em bipod only there will be rage quitters everywhere.

Adjust the BREN and FN to have the magazine semi see thru, it blocks way too much because of our monocular vision.

What about BAR will that be bipod only , It's no different than a BREN, which should also be shoulder firable.

Bipod shouldnt have to be manually closed then opened to relocate the lmg while your prone, sight picture needs to be better for LMG's atm they have worse magnification than rifles why?

Edited by goreblimey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No firing LMG in motion, but still allowing unsupported fire, IMHO is the best compromise between real life, and games limitations.
Being that is has to be a solution across a weapon platform in which all weapons are not equal, i think it will work very well.

If you get caught in the open, you are not forced to stand there and read your last rites  with your willy in your hand because you can not fire.
Which deployed only firing would effectively do.
But at the same time, if you are firing, you are making a conscious choice to stand that position, and not circle straffing your way down hallways
or jogging around

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, bebop57 said:

belly ache enough …………… I've watch you guys nerf a lot of stuff and said nothing. This one is a game changer

Hence the reason we are looking for the playerbase opinion on the matter. 

This would be for entire lmg class as we feel the speed at which an lmg can run into the room and be Rambo is rather unrealistic. 

But this is more a opinion driven post to gauge the playerbase

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, goreblimey said:


You make em bipod only there will be rage quitters everywhere.

Adjust the BREN and FN to have the magazine semi see thru, it blocks way too much because of our monocular vision.

What about BAR will that be bipod only , It's no different than a BREN, which should also be shoulder firable.

Bipod shouldnt have to be manually closed then opened to relocate the lmg while your prone, sight picture needs to be better for LMG's atm they have worse magnification than rifles why?

Bren and FM24 do not have animations to support any sort of aiming other than at a deployed stance at this stage.

Bipods not being automatically opened will likely stay because it gives that user more options. It's very easy to deploy the bipod, just right click.

Making the magazines see through... I think that's a little of scope / not too realistic imo.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, goreblimey said:


You make em bipod only there will be rage quitters everywhere.

Adjust the BREN and FN to have the magazine semi see thru, it blocks way too much because of our monocular vision.

What about BAR will that be bipod only , It's no different than a BREN, which should also be shoulder firable.

Bipod shouldnt have to be manually closed then opened to relocate the lmg while your prone, sight picture needs to be better for LMG's atm they have worse magnification than rifles why?

I think you have misread xooms post
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main issue with the Axis MG is that while shooting from the hip all the shots are hitting center of the screen.  It is as accurate as a rifle using iron sights.    This is the problem. this is why a run and gun axis   MG can clear an entire room with one clip and can even fire from dozens of metres with accuracy before needing to go prone. even prone with no bipod it is extremely accurate.

  While the allies MG fire is way off center making it very very inaccurate . Why did the devs make this completely unbalanced decision to allow Axis this ridiculous advantage?

Want to fix this issue, make the Axis MG shoot off centre when shooting from the hip. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, denisd said:

Want to fix this issue, make the Axis MG shoot off centre when shooting from the hip. 

That is precisely what is being recommended, for all LMG classes above. Please read carefully. S!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Hey all,

Tonight I dove into the code and our data directory, and I'd like to discuss the following as a compromise for the light machine gun class, which covers the: MG34, Bren Gun and the French FM24/29.

Proposed Changes:

  1. Disable firing while moving under ANY conditions
  2. Increase non-aimed (hip fire) dispersion
  3. Increase hip fire muzzle velocity

This would still enable some sort of firing, but you need to either be stationary, or otherwise deployed supporting your Squad.

The BAR and FG42 are considered automatic rifleman which is why they're not included in these changes.

The other option would be completely disabling firing of the LMG's unless you've deployed your bipod. We think the proposed change can help quell this option however.

These really are the options at this stage other than to maintain the status quo, which we do not believe will be ideal.

Okay, discuss, but be productive.

1.  People should be able to fire while moving, if they so choose.  The price for doing so with an LMG, though, should be steep, as in wildly inaccurate.  I realize there are films of people hip-firing MG34s, and the like.  Having some experience in the Infantry, I can tell you that in anything resembling a combat situation, doing so would have to be an emergency, and would certainly be far far far less accurate than going prone, as is typically taught.

 

2.  Increasing non-aimed (hip-fire dispersion) should happen.  There's a reason MG gunners are taught short bursts---accuracy (well, and life preservation, given they are bullet magnets).  In a prone/bipod situation, the first 5-7 rounds should be the most accurate.  In a hip-fire situation, accuracy is not practicle for more than the first couple 2-3 rounds.  I say that as someone who qualified expert on the M-60, and the ma duece, but made sure never to carry one (m-60)... lol    (I familiarized with the SAW but never had to qualify on it----TLAT units didn't have SAWs at that time---Yes that was a while ago).

 

We all know that MG gunners should not be who are rushing bunkers.

We all know that MG gunners diving to the ground to go prone should take a bit of time (a second or 2 would be necessary even for expert gunners) before they can light rounds up with any accuracy.

 

S!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, denisd said:

 

  While the allies MG fire is way off center making it very very inaccurate . Why did the devs make this completely unbalanced decision to allow Axis this ridiculous advantage?

 

I don't have the answer for that. I think we are just looking to balance this issue as best we can. The options put forward can be implemented rather quickly and most others would require much more resources and time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been "on the board" for awhile, ever since we started work on the M1919A6. Basically we need crew served LMG's to operate differently than their BAR style brethren. Since then we are a little short in the animation department but are working to rectify that situation. But here is the primary functionality that WE agreed upon at the time.

"When we in production worked this out, we did not completely take away the option to hip fire. There are too many examples of this being possible "in real life" to support. We DID however want to limit non-deployed firing and reloading to being stationary tasks so that if they are walking or jogging, they would have to stop and "plant" to fire or reload. That and wildly increase dispersion (historically speaking) when not deployed."

Now Xoom is getting it very close to what we are looking for...

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HATCH said:

We DID however want to limit non-deployed firing and reloading to being stationary tasks 

I forgot to add this part in my first post, I've updated it. Pretty sure we can make that happen as well, and we should because with all of them, it's a complex job to complete, especially given the weight of the machine guns.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Xoom and Merlin's suggestions are pretty good. Increasing dispersion if firing w/o bipod. As far as moving while firing goes ... the only direction i would think even plausibly realistic is a slow creep backwards. Not forwards against the substantil recoil.

It would also be nice if infantry stamina reflected the weight of the gear they had. LMG seems to be a prime candidate to have less sprint that say an smg or rifle.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a decent fix to me. No harm in testing it out. I was going to suggest reduced mobility or faster stamina loss while sprinting but that may be a bit overkill. 

 

EDIT: While we're mucking about with infantry mechanics can you please allow us to continue ADS while stepping backwards with rifles and SMGs? This has gotten me killed countless times..

Edited by jokur
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, XOOM said:

I forgot to add this part in my first post, I've updated it. Pretty sure we can make that happen as well, and we should because with all of them, it's a complex job to complete, especially given the weight of the machine guns.

Lets just make sure we are making clear the distinction between the "Light Machine Gun" like the BAR, BREN, FG42, (working as they do now), and the "Medium Machine Gun" like the MG34, M1919 (in-game or in development), Vickers MG, Lewis MG, MP42 (not yet in development) getting the treatment we are discussing...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, bebop57 said:

belly ache enough …………… I've watch you guys nerf a lot of stuff and said nothing. This one is a game changer

Explain please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Light Machine Gun" like the BAR, BREN, FG42, (working as they do now), and the "Medium Machine Gun" like the MG34, M1919 (in-game or in development), Vickers MG, Lewis MG, MP42 (not yet in development) "

Without getting into semantics or too many details.... I am just using the above as clear example of two different classes needed based on similar mechanics and operational ability.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, BLKHWK8 said:

Hence the reason we are looking for the playerbase opinion on the matter. 

This would be for entire lmg class as we feel the speed at which an lmg can run into the room and be Rambo is rather unrealistic. 

But this is more a opinion driven post to gauge the playerbase

Unrealistic is changing this after 17 years of playing. And you wanna talk Rambo? You ever try to take a cp or ab with a Tommy gun in there? But hell you can save me some money. Why pay full price for lmg when I can just play rifle for free. Come to think of it, touch my lmg and I'm done

Edited by bebop57

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.