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Proposed LMG Fix

370 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Zebbeee said:

Barel Overheat effect and mechanical failures?

I’m pretty sure SMGs can suffer from both of those issues as well. 

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6 hours ago, minky said:

There are real and legitimate reasons that LMGs are not the preferred weapon for room clearing. Maybe we should ask ourselves what those reasons are and model those. 

Slow to turn and hard to run long distances. Both IMHO should be added. The question is whether it can be coded or whether all infantry irrespective of class have the same base model and basic physics modelling with just a different weapon added to them. My own suspicion is that very basic things like the rate of turning are hard-coded into the engine for all infantry since it is treated as one class, but I could be wrong.

Another option would be to make running-n-gunning with the LMG technically more challenging.

If anyone remember the old "read-aim-fire" system we have for I think 2-3 months back in 2001 when it was removed for the traditional FPS style knows what I mean. All infantry started with the weapon down position, to fire it, you had to first press one button to get it in the "ready" position (used to be Left Shift), then a second one for the "aim" position (Right Mouse), and then physically could you fire (Left Mouse). That is 3 buttons you help while stationary. When running it was nearly impossible since you were trying to hold/manipulate 4 keys/buttons at once. This could be added to the LMG only to make things a bit harder.

Just an idea S!

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8 minutes ago, minky said:

I’m pretty sure SMGs can suffer from both of those issues as well. 

Be kind of hard, the barrel overheat.
Combination of firing pistol load rounds, firing rate, and ammo capacity, and general use.

I supposed you could, if you could jack enough constant ammo into it and lock the trigger down
but i think you would need to really try to cook it, might be hard to reproduce under average combat conditions/use

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1 hour ago, Merlin51 said:

Be kind of hard, the barrel overheat.
Combination of firing pistol load rounds, firing rate, and ammo capacity, and general use.

I supposed you could, if you could jack enough constant ammo into it and lock the trigger down
but i think you would need to really try to cook it, might be hard to reproduce under average combat conditions/use

Even modern MP5's can be overheated to the point where there are problems with ammo cooking off in the chamber.  It's not easy but it can be done.

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5 minutes ago, minky said:

Even modern MP5's can be overheated to the point where there are problems with ammo cooking off in the chamber.  It's not easy but it can be done.

You can cook an M16, but you kind of have to purposely try.
Probably be really hard to get the opportunity in real combat, or pack the ammo
Mind you that has a small rifle cartridge, so probably a bit more heat potential.

MP5 probably not as hard if you go flopping out C mags at 900 rpm

I imagine you could cook an old tommy gun, if you plopped a stack of drums on the bench
and weren't too fumbly about swapping them out.

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43 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

You can cook an M16, but you kind of have to purposely try.
Probably be really hard to get the opportunity in real combat, or pack the ammo
Mind you that has a small rifle cartridge, so probably a bit more heat potential.

MP5 probably not as hard if you go flopping out C mags at 900 rpm

I imagine you could cook an old tommy gun, if you plopped a stack of drums on the bench
and weren't too fumbly about swapping them out.

I had an M4 pretty hot this morning at the range.  I have never made one glow but I would bet it's possible.  I made an M60 glow bright red in the dark though.  That was pretty cool actually.

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Everything about an M60 is pretty cool.

Even an empty M60 sitting on the table is pretty cool.

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Seen a butter bar in basic pick up a hot m60 , he was going to shoot it from the hip , he grabbed the hot barrel with one hand, and it left a long white burn in the palm of his hand. :)  He wrapped it up and tried to look tough but he left soon after :) 

Edited by tatonka

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Leave it as is.

If you have a cap full of people there is only one way to clear it out fast and that's with the LMG.  Too many complainers, if you don't like it you should have ambushed the doors to cut down the LMG before entering. 

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4 hours ago, minky said:

I had an M4 pretty hot this morning at the range.  I have never made one glow but I would bet it's possible.  I made an M60 glow bright red in the dark though.  That was pretty cool actually.

When I was in Infantry school, a squadmate of mine burned the profile view of the sightpost (the triangle) into his cheek.  I stuck the slack on my sling up there to prevent it happening to me, and it partially melted the sling.

 

Oh, and I've fired an M16 until the barrel glowed red, getting rid of the excess tracers after a day at the range.

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6 hours ago, genthc9 said:

Leave it as is.

If you have a cap full of people there is only one way to clear it out fast and that's with the LMG.  Too many complainers, if you don't like it you should have ambushed the doors to cut down the LMG before entering. 

At least you are honest. S!

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6 hours ago, genthc9 said:

Leave it as is.

If you have a cap full of people there is only one way to clear it out fast and that's with the LMG.  Too many complainers, if you don't like it you should have ambushed the doors to cut down the LMG before entering. 

That's pretty much what the allies have to do with their lmg, cover the doors from the outside, which in a way is correct.  Provides cover.  The Germans use it to when running into a building to clear it, which is not accurate.  See where this is going?

This isn't Counter Strike.

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2 hours ago, copeman said:

That's pretty much what the allies have to do with their lmg, cover the doors from the outside, which in a way is correct.  Provides cover.  The Germans use it to when running into a building to clear it, which is not accurate.  See where this is going?

This isn't Counter Strike.

Exactly this.

If we care about realism, even a *little*, then this is a problem, plain and simple.

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About an hour ago I was capping a cp. Was standing behind the stairs back in the corner. I hear footsteps. I see a german head run up, i open up with my thompson. He flies around and instantly goes prone at the top of the steps. So he runs up, turns around and goes prone all while shooting me instantly. This guy always plays the lmg. He is known. That shouldnt happen. Looks and plays ridiculous. Will be happy when its out of the game.

Edited by copeman
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I think the proposal is sound. I think it can be refined however down the road. IMHO, the situation should be treated via animation therefore less buttons to mess with. I also think the Lmgs should be able to fire on walk. Run the animation goes to the handle carry automatically which is a visual clue, to the ready position on walk, the transition time prevents a insane run/stop fire instant, though will allow the transition to happen while slowing down to walk to stop and deploy. I think that's a good compromise and more natural.

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On ‎19‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:44 PM, aismov said:

Slow to turn and hard to run long distances. Both IMHO should be added. The question is whether it can be coded or whether all infantry irrespective of class have the same base model and basic physics modelling with just a different weapon added to them. My own suspicion is that very basic things like the rate of turning are hard-coded into the engine for all infantry since it is treated as one class, but I could be wrong.

Another option would be to make running-n-gunning with the LMG technically more challenging.

If anyone remember the old "read-aim-fire" system we have for I think 2-3 months back in 2001 when it was removed for the traditional FPS style knows what I mean. All infantry started with the weapon down position, to fire it, you had to first press one button to get it in the "ready" position (used to be Left Shift), then a second one for the "aim" position (Right Mouse), and then physically could you fire (Left Mouse). That is 3 buttons you help while stationary. When running it was nearly impossible since you were trying to hold/manipulate 4 keys/buttons at once. This could be added to the LMG only to make things a bit harder.

Just an idea S!

That would be like a DB7 pilot having to go to his bomb aimer, aiming at the target and then releasing his bomb...... except they don't do that, they press a "macro" or whatever, and bingo bomb gone and pilot never blinks. I am sure if they can do it for pilots they will do it for lmgs.

 

Running and gunning just needs to be stopped with LMG, as just one small part of the whole game fix.

 

S! Ian 

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4 minutes ago, ian77 said:

That would be like a DB7 pilot having to go to his bomb aimer, aiming at the target and then releasing his bomb...... except they don't do that, they press a "macro" or whatever, and bingo bomb gone and pilot never blinks. I am sure if they can do it for pilots they will do it for lmgs.

 

Running and gunning just needs to be stopped with LMG, as just one small part of the whole game fix.

 

S! Ian 

Actually a good point, there was only one real Sturzkampfbomber in WWII and that was the Stuka, so we limit LMG we surly can expect the DB7 and Havoc to be flown as level bombers just as the 111 should be . Never ever heard of DB7 ,Havocs or 111 do what they do in game.

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12 hours ago, stankyus said:

I think the proposal is sound. I think it can be refined however down the road. IMHO, the situation should be treated via animation therefore less buttons to mess with. I also think the Lmgs should be able to fire on walk. Run the animation goes to the handle carry automatically which is a visual clue, to the ready position on walk, the transition time prevents a insane run/stop fire instant, though will allow the transition to happen while slowing down to walk to stop and deploy. I think that's a good compromise and more natural.

+1

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On ‎21‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:45 PM, dre21 said:

Actually a good point, there was only one real Sturzkampfbomber in WWII and that was the Stuka, so we limit LMG we surly can expect the DB7 and Havoc to be flown as level bombers just as the 111 should be . Never ever heard of DB7 ,Havocs or 111 do what they do in game.

That would see a real wave of rage quitting!   Can you imagine a limiter, dive angle more than 15 degrees and bombs don't release on the level bombers..... oh the howling and wailing then, and the lost subscriptions....

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9 minutes ago, ian77 said:

That would see a real wave of rage quitting!   Can you imagine a limiter, dive angle more than 15 degrees and bombs don't release on the level bombers..... oh the howling and wailing then, and the lost subscriptions....

We do have this, i am not sure of the angle.
It goes by the 1st person detected angle of the plane though, not the 3rd person estimated angle

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On 12/21/2018 at 8:45 AM, dre21 said:

Actually a good point, there was only one real Sturzkampfbomber in WWII and that was the Stuka, so we limit LMG we surly can expect the DB7 and Havoc to be flown as level bombers just as the 111 should be . Never ever heard of DB7 ,Havocs or 111 do what they do in game.

Uhm ... Blackburn skua, Stuka, ju88 (had dive brakes and max 75degrees iirc), dauntless, helldiver and the French ... what was that thing LM-401 all purpose built dive bombers. However it was quickly discovered that all fighters capable of carrying a bomb were as effective as purpose built dive bombers and had the advantage of being significantly more survivable after dropping their bomb.

 

hatch already mentioned a solution to bombers doing silly things.

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9 hours ago, Capco said:

Bump.  

 

What's the deal then?

Allies just got massive Matty supply increase 2 compaigns ago that is totally unbalanced, and you guys still are not satisfied.

Tell you what... lets go back to the old matty supply lists and you can do whatever the hell you want with the LMGs!

Edited by krazydog
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