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      Hells Gate   03/24/2019

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      Date: 3/30/19 Time: 11:00 AM Server time/ 12:00pm EST/ 1600 GMT
XOOM

Proposed LMG Fix

370 posts in this topic

this is wrong nerf our LMG XOOM ! REALLY? plenty of YouTube videos on mg34 hip shooting it was done a lot ! but I understand allies cant fight ! they lose cause here uber tanks cant cap have to  do something right ! well lets blame it n the LMG ! been playing for a very long time and at 59 yrs of age love the game ! best on the net! have gotten many to join ! I don't make a career outta using LMG hip shooting and die a lot ! this is very wrong and also a game changer for me as well ! 

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27 minutes ago, krazydog said:

Allies just got massive Matty supply increase 2 compaigns ago that is totally unbalanced, and you guys still are not satisfied.

Tell you what... lets go back to the old matty supply lists and you can do whatever the hell you want with the LMGs!

I do not recall ever having heard a single Allied player complaining that we had too few matties, ever. So saying the Allies are not satisfied after getting more matties is kind of a red herring ... because this wasn't really a bone of contention in the first place to be honest.

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3 minutes ago, eagle said:

plenty of YouTube videos on mg34 hip shooting it was done a lot !

B.S.

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7 minutes ago, choad said:

B.S.

Internet, use it.

Just saw the above post for the first time and took 1 min to search it up. 

Apparently it was even in German Infantry manuals that the MG34 could be hip fired if a better position was not available. 

Edited by zippy
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1 minute ago, zippy said:

Internet, use it. Just saw the above post and took 1 min to search it up. 

Oh i have seen the half dozen videos that are commonly posted by LMG apologists here in the forums. You don't have to watch it with zapruder like detail to realize just how lame of an attempt to justify your argument that is. 

Each one i have seem shows a chubby, poor guy barely hanging on for dear life .... spraying with barely any ability to steady his aim. None show a guy walking forward, turning to spray, and able to steady his aim etc. So go ahead and post some links to those videos smart-arse.  :popcorn:

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48 minutes ago, choad said:

I do not recall ever having heard a single Allied player complaining that we had too few matties, ever. So saying the Allies are not satisfied after getting more matties is kind of a red herring ... because this wasn't really a bone of contention in the first place to be honest.

My point is the opposite:  Its the axis upset - not allies of course. The last two campaigns Matty supply was roughly quadrupled!  Many Axis players are getting very [censored]-d at CRS now over this.  We have very few weapons to kill this quantity of matties.   

Axis might be winning the current campaign but we are dieing and dieng over and over to matties, and it is getting extremely frustrating.  Axis tankers have it really bad.

So I know the Axis are winning right now because of overpop (and a little more side organization) at the moment.  But as soon as campaign population becomes anywhere close to even, this matty imbalance is going to be a huge, huge issue!  

The allies are basically using BRITISH INFANTRY FLAGS as EXTRA ARMORED FLAGS to cover French divisions! . - Its totally stupid, and CRS please do not tell me this is historical.

The only reason CRS is not hearimg more about it right now is because Axis are mostly overpop and winning right now.  And we all know: (overpop > equipment imbalance).  But for long term balance issues this needs to be addressed soon!

 

Edited by krazydog
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You have already concluded how even the bullets are going and landing when they aren't even in shot so why should I waste time? 

Plenty of things that can be done in games that people can't do in real life. 

Plus, like I said, it was in German field manuals. It wouldn't be in there if it was was useless as you are making it seem. Anyway, I won't contradict your description. 

 

Edited by zippy

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Watch it from 1:19

Seems pretty in control to me. 
 

Also, dunno if this has been posted before or not since I just started digging stuff up. 

 

Edited by zippy

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1 minute ago, zippy said:

Watch it from 1:19

Seems pretty in control to me. 
 

+1

This is historical. 

This thread is now over. I'm closing this. 

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4 minutes ago, zippy said:

You have already concluded how even the bullets are going and landing when they aren't even in shot so why should I waste time? 

All i will say is, from the numerous videos that i have seen a half-wit could see the dramatic muzzle rise.

** And to be clear i have come to grips with the fact that this aspect of the weapon is here to stay. It will never be changed for a number of reasons. I'm fine with it, and even understand it .... i just like arguing with people who stand by their guns that their is nothing wrong with how it is modeled.

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21 minutes ago, choad said:

All i will say is, from the numerous videos that i have seen a half-wit could see the dramatic muzzle rise.

** And to be clear i have come to grips with the fact that this aspect of the weapon is here to stay. It will never be changed for a number of reasons. I'm fine with it, and even understand it .... i just like arguing with people who stand by their guns that their is nothing wrong with how it is modeled.

Good, you should.

So, let me get this straight when it comes to inf play. In-game personas jumping off 1-2 storey buildings firing whatever weapon they have accurately is fine? But, if lmg can be fired from hip and on the move, it is too much? Again, stuff will never 100% resemble real life in a game. This is just one other example I just thought of. There are many.

Plus, any proposed alterations they've said will affect all lmgs if done. I don't see a reason to take mg34 and start a whingefest. 

Edited by zippy

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28 minutes ago, eagle said:

plenty of YouTube videos on mg34 hip shooting it was done a lot !

While running?
I would be most interested to see a video of a MG34 or a BREN or a 24/29
being fired while running down a hallway and turning through a door way, that does not result in fatalities of unintended parties.
Heck, i'd be interested even in a video of some fool running across open ground.

Zippy, your video, no one is running...

Nobody says you cant stand still and fire an MG34

And no, it was not done a lot.
It's something you do when between a rock and a hard place, because it's a horribly ineffective waste of ammo
as opposed to even just having the assistant gunner shoulder it and hold the bipod for you.

36 minutes ago, zippy said:

In-game personas jumping off 1-2 storey buildings firing whatever weapon they have accurately is fine?

Nope, give us a minute to get to it, and you will most likely be a bloodspot on the ground with your knee caps projecting out your mouth (wonder if rag doll could do that?).
Asking do not fix A because Q has not been addressed yet is probably not a good way to go about things, wouldn't you agree?
You don't really think we are planning to leave the super hero jumping do you?
 

48 minutes ago, choad said:

i just like arguing with people who stand by their guns that their is nothing wrong with how it is modeled.

There are things not quite right with how many things are modeled, some small things, some larger things.
We inherited it that way, we did not get to chose to make it that way.
We can not fix them all over night, some are easier than others to do, some things even require new code to fix properly.
But every one cant drop what they are doing because someone found something else that was night right, otherwise nothing will get done, and many things will be laying around only half done, and no one can use anything that is half done.



Interesting video.
At no point does he say either weapon sucks by the way.
He does not cover the rapid movement configuration, that we have in game, probably because it became uncommon after 1940.
The drums were easily damaged, and expensive to produce and got discontinued in normal use.
Keep in mind, the drum equipped guy still had an assistant, he picked up the empty drums and links, he reloaded the empty drums from the ammo cans
and did all the other normal support tasks.

 

 

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Well, I didn't think super hero jumping was really an issue. Just part and parcel of the game. Just like the whole lmg thing. If all of this is being fixed then fine, but I still don't see how it is an mg34 only issue as some people are suggesting. 

 

 

Edited by zippy

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44 minutes ago, zippy said:

Well, I didn't think super hero jumping was really an issue. Just part and parcel of the game. Just like the whole lmg thing. If all of this is being fixed then fine, but I still don't see how it is an mg34 only issue as some people are suggesting. 

It's not. Allies have their fair share of Rambo LMGs. It's just that the MG34 fires faster so it is superior to the BREN. Just like the Thompson fires faster than the MP40 and is the superior weapon.

FWIW the way LMGs are used by all sides is gamey and we should tweak the model to be more in line with historical use.

I think a lot of good fixes have been proposed:

1) decrease turning speed with LMG to model the heavy weight of these weapons

2) no firing gun when going from standing to prone (or drastically increase dispersion)

3) increased dispersion when moving and firing 

4) allow hip firing

5) all undeployed firing

And finally lets be honest, most kills are made by rifles and SMG. The LMGs may inflame passions, but their dominance is way overstated and usual more due to lag than the actual weapon.

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On 12/7/2018 at 7:58 PM, XOOM said:

Firing LMG will reduce stamina some (does recover)

Are triggers that tough to pull?

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1 hour ago, zippy said:

Well, I didn't think super hero jumping was really an issue. Just part and parcel of the game. Just like the whole lmg thing. If all of this is being fixed then fine, but I still don't see how it is an mg34 only issue as some people are suggesting. 

Ever been capturing something, and a bad guy comes streaking in like a meteor cause he ran off a building roof 20 feet up?
And he lives?
I would fully understand anyone who felt that was just a wee bit bizarre unless the guy was wearing a parachute, or a captain america shield

It isn't (LMG issue) and anyone that would stand there and tell you that allies can not do it too, i will stand with you and say that is not correct.
I have done it with a bren, it has 30 rounds, and they last about as long due to difference in firing rate.

Did it to the guys trying to cap the south antwerp AF bunker last night (sorry guys you were just too early, bunker wasnt hot yet) with the FM24/29
it doesnt have as much ammo as the other 2, so you have to be a bit more picky about the spraying, or in my case hit 2 guys, but dont come full through the door way,
so i could pop in the other room to reload, then hosed the last guy back by the table, he did wing me with his rifle though, but i lived, he did not.

Felt a little bad, because i suspect they were all new guys, thought they were doing the right thing, attack the AF bunker, but town wasnt in contest yet.
Thats besides the point though, last guy knew i was coming but stood no chance really cause i could hit the trigger before i cleared the doorway
and continue moving quickly through the door way, bullets where already flying at him the second i popped into his view.

In real life, i know very well, i could not pull that off firing a full rifle caliber LMG.
In all honesty, IRL, i would be worried doing it with a pistol caliber SMG too, due to bullets hitting things right in front of my face
and very possibly spraying my face with unfriendly stuff.

The way something like that should have went down?
Need a rifleman or something with me, have him throw smoke, when smoke fills out, then me step in, and STOP running and hose down the door opening, then rifleman follows in behind me and throws in frag grenades.
Or something like that, you know?

Had i run into the room, being that he is already situated and trained on the door area, irl he should have probably dropped me, bolt rifle or not
before i had much chance to bring the LMG to bear.

Everyone uses it as an automatic sawed off shotgun, it isn't an axis thing, theirs is just a little bit better at it.
 

Edited by Merlin51
dyslexia kicking in

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I'd just like to thank @Capco for kicking the hornets nest :). Appreciate that! LOL.

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Our official position is this:

Any solution(s) for the Lightmachine Gun class to be more oriented as a support role weapon will be applied without bias to the whole LMG class, in the exact manner across the board.

This means the Bren Gun, FM24/29 and the MG34 (and eventually the .30 Caliber when it's ready) will all have the same treatment. 

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It'll be nice when eventually grenades work well enough that they're the obvious way to clear a guarded room...not (unrealistically) running into it with a gun of any kind.

Then we can stop having these repetitive discussions about LMGs, SMGs and lag.

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*starts new discussion about grenade bias

"OMG! Allied grenades fit through the window everytime. But sometimes Axis grenades get stuck in the window! CRS, fix your game or I'm unsubbing. Look at the Top 100 Grenade Chuckers page, filled with Allied lemmings with their fancy little egg-shaped OP nade that actually fits through the window!

I have been a paying customer for 20 years. I played WW2OL since Day 1. My son played WW2OL since Day 2. My grandson played WW2OL since Day 3. But, because of this, you have lost a customer. 
 

To all the guys who have played this game with or against me, S!

Wish you all well."

*insert obligatory Farewell posts

*insert occasional You'll Come Back, They Always Do post

 

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Yeah, if there's a window, put anyone's 75mm HE round through it, or two to be positive. Then the defenders are...should be...really dead.

 

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38 minutes ago, zippy said:

*starts new discussion about grenade bias

"OMG! Allied grenades fit through the window everytime. But sometimes Axis grenades get stuck in the window! CRS, fix your game or I'm unsubbing. Look at the Top 100 Grenade Chuckers page, filled with Allied lemmings with their fancy little egg-shaped OP nade that actually fits through the window!

I have been a paying customer for 20 years. I played WW2OL since Day 1. My son played WW2OL since Day 2. My grandson played WW2OL since Day 3. But, because of this, you have lost a customer. 
 

To all the guys who have played this game with or against me, S!

Wish you all well."

*insert obligatory Farewell posts

*insert occasional You'll Come Back, They Always Do post

Genuine question here... is this a legit post or were you just trying to make a point?

Because the size difference is considerably more so (the model itself) as it was in real life. It also therefore carries a higher fragmentation count, meaning it can do quite a bit of damage to my understanding (I am not a data guy loaded with all the fragmentation counts so don't quite me entirely that).

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Side note / observation: These unsubscribe threats are getting pretty old. Threatening to get your way and bailing on the game really doesn't hold a lot of weight with me or the team, and it just is counter productive.

We obviously all care a lot about the game and want things to be a certain way, but we have to have an appropriate approach to it all and be patient. We're all in this together. I don't want to see people go, be super upset about things, or be unrealistic about what we can and cannot do. We are legit doing the best we can and while we are making progress, we're still in recovery mode at CRS / WWII Online. It's not all sunshine and rainbows.

So we need to talk about issues with civil discourse, consider the options, see what we can viably do and then incorporate it.

That is the atmosphere that we're trying to create.

But by folks stomping and being irrational, they seize that from being possible. And this hurts the whole community's interaction with CRS. Would strongly recommend against this approach.

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I took that post...all of it...as a joke. All the modeled grenades will fit through any modeled window. :D

It's hard to reliably communicate humor and/or sarcasm in text posts, eh?  S!

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4 minutes ago, jwilly said:

I took that post...all of it...as a joke. All the modeled grenades will fit through any modeled window. :D

It's hard to reliably communicate humor and/or sarcasm in text posts, eh?  S!

I hope it is, and if so Zippy, sorry. But I do fully believe in and support my statement which is applicable throughout much of our forum boards.

WE CANNOT lose sight of the understanding that the WWII Online community is the ONLY reason this game continues on (by your financial support, and the folks who have stepped up to assist CRS - God bless you all). By yanking support, you're signing its death warrant. Don't, friggin, do it, if you want this thing to stay here.

What will CRS do?

We're going to continue trying our damndest as we have been. Please see the progress we've been making and understand that WE ARE IT with you. 

Sometimes I wonder if that truly resonates and is understood. Hoping to break through for some reality...

We have servers, people, and a variety of expenses to keep things going. It's not just some random magic happening to keep things going. It requires real work and effort, substantially more difficult than a lot of other game developers who offload their server and engine support off to third parties.

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