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      Hells Gate   03/24/2019

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      Date: 3/30/19 Time: 11:00 AM Server time/ 12:00pm EST/ 1600 GMT
XOOM

Proposed LMG Fix

370 posts in this topic

Okay. Having played LMG/MMG roles in most games that I can play them in I would like to share my thoughts. I think making LMG/MMg's not firable when moving a silly and unrealistic move however I do agree that movement should be slower, stamina should deplete faster. Also I feel that there are 2 parts of firing with a LMG/MMG that should be considered. Firstly accuracy should greatly depend of stamina. The lower your stamina when firing the more inaccurate the fire will be (hence the example if you run across a open field and when you get to the other side you should not be able to open up with accurate fire straight away no mater if your bipod is deployed or not). Secondly I think that MG fire should start fairly accurate for the first 3-5 seconds however after this it gradually gets more and more inaccurate the more sustained firing you do. Lastly I agree with suppression and a lot of games try to stimulate this however it almost always falls short. Having sustained MG fire on your position should make your fire highly inaccurate. These are just my opinions on how to make MG's better and feel more realistic. 

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IF CRS wants to make the changes proposed regardless, if I were them, I would stage the changes. Start with altering the stamina. Then alter dispersion to force barrel raise, not just make the rounds disperse spherically. Then alter the reloading behaviour to require a stationary reload. And so on. 

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3 hours ago, bebop57 said:

1 or 2, usually in prone or at a window. Dont know any of this bursting into a room bull[censored]

Sounds like this change wouldn't really cause you any trouble one way or the other.

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Having more dispersion does little when your in  a bunker . I dont understand why you wont give the allies a 30 cal similar  use as the fg34.  give us something with a 50 or 100 round belt that we can run in a bunker with and clear 5 to 10 guys out . The Germans have had this for years . But for some reason the allies being able to do it is unthinkable .  But the conversations goes on and on while they still do it .

 

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21 minutes ago, aunghous said:

Having more dispersion does little when your in  a bunker . I dont understand why you wont give the allies a 30 cal similar  use as the fg34.  give us something with a 50 or 100 round belt that we can run in a bunker with and clear 5 to 10 guys out . The Germans have had this for years . But for some reason the allies being able to do it is unthinkable .  But the conversations goes on and on while they still do it .

 

The Allied .30 Caliber is in development. Having some issues with artwork and animations

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Just to make clear, adjusting muzzle climb and or dispersion while not aimed (hip fired) does not affect deployed fire on the lmgs. 

There has been no plan or mention of changing deployed fire best as I know.

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22 minutes ago, OLDZEKE said:

Just to make clear, adjusting muzzle climb and or dispersion while not aimed (hip fired) does not affect deployed fire on the lmgs. 

 

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54 minutes ago, OLDZEKE said:

Just to make clear, adjusting muzzle climb and or dispersion while not aimed (hip fired) does not affect deployed fire on the lmgs. 

There has been no plan or mention of changing deployed fire best as I know.

Absolutely Correct!

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OH and btw, SO it seems this REALLY WASN'T ABOUT asking the  input of the AXIS players as it is SO MUCH being legitimized that it is ALREADY going to be implemented by the response's of ALL the CRS  crew and the allies backing them up, this has turned out to be --WELL ok we will appease  the axis and state that we did give you the opportunity to respond , but it really doesnt matter because we are going to do it anyways.

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15 hours ago, XOOM said:

Hey all,

Tonight I dove into the code and our data directory, and I'd like to discuss the following as a compromise for the light machine gun class, which covers the: MG34, Bren Gun and the French FM24/29.

Proposed Changes:

  1. Disable firing while moving under ANY conditions
  2. Increase non-aimed (hip fire) dispersion
  3. Increase hip fire muzzle climb
  4. Make reloading a stationary task (only)
  5. Firing LMG will reduce stamina some (does recover)

This would still enable some sort of firing, but you need to either be stationary, or otherwise deployed supporting your Squad.

The BAR and FG42 are considered automatic rifleman which is why they're not included in these changes.

The other option would be completely disabling firing of the LMG's unless you've deployed your bipod. We think the proposed change can help quell this option however.

These really are the options at this stage other than to maintain the status quo, which we do not believe will be ideal.

Okay, discuss, but be productive.

@XOOM

Perhaps if you also decided to look at the craptastic dispersion on the MP40 and MP 34 in conjunction with this fix there would be a certain subset of players that would be more amenable to the solution.

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11 minutes ago, xcas said:

OH and btw, SO it seems this REALLY WASN'T ABOUT asking the  input of the AXIS players as it is SO MUCH being legitimized that it is ALREADY going to be implemented by the response's of ALL the CRS  crew and the allies backing them up, this has turned out to be --WELL ok we will appease  the axis and state that we did give you the opportunity to respond , but it really doesnt matter because we are going to do it anyways.

THis was about dialog with the player base as a whole. You have asked for transparencty and dialog with developers, this is what this post was intended to be. The fact you are twisting what has been said here to your beliefs is wrong. Xoom has stated these are changes we are discussing. We felt we wanted to discuss it with playerbase to see if there was another idea we have not thought of. THis is not an Axis or Allied change, which has not even happened or been stated will happen. The changes discussed would be for the three LMGs in Game. 

Would you rather us remove the LMG class as a whole like we did the British AT Grenideir?

This comes down again to balancing gameplay and historical accuracy as well as utilizing game mechanics. The issue of the Rambo issue can happen on both sides period, however it is unrealistic as no one would do it in the real world as the threat of death would be there, in a game you just respawn.

 

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4 minutes ago, xcas said:

This wont really matter anyways, because once this goes into effect and the axis is already sick and tired of this bullcrap, there will be a mass influx of Free to play on the axis side and no more premium subscribers, so there you go allies YOU get to play automatic weapons against rifles.  (less revenue) and we ALL know where less revenue leads

 

9 minutes ago, xcas said:

OH and btw, SO it seems this REALLY WASN'T ABOUT asking the  input of the AXIS players as it is SO MUCH being legitimized that it is ALREADY going to be implemented by the response's of ALL the CRS  crew and the allies backing them up, this has turned out to be --WELL ok we will appease  the axis and state that we did give you the opportunity to respond , but it really doesnt matter because we are going to do it anyways.

CRS has asked for everyone's input, and this would effect an entire weapon class, not just the germans/axis.  Even if it only effected the mg34 at this time, which I don't believe is the plan, it would effect Allied LMGs as they are introduced into the game.  It is correcting a flaw, not 'nerfing the germans'.

 

I don't see the gripe.  We ALL know that an LMG-wielding soldier should not be able to run into a room and clear it.  It's not what the weapon was designed for, is not even close to what it was used for in the actual war, and it should not be effective being used that way.  Both sides have SMGs perfectly capable of doing significant damage in CQB situations.  Fixing the rambo-LMG deal improves the game.

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16 minutes ago, xcas said:

This wont really matter anyways, because once this goes into effect and the axis is already sick and tired of this bullcrap, there will be a mass influx of Free to play on the axis side and no more premium subscribers, so there you go allies YOU get to play automatic weapons against rifles.  (less revenue) and we ALL know where less revenue leads

Perhaps the way the LMG is currently modeled turns off some players, and maybe making it more realistic would attract more players who are looking for more of a simulator than a fps traditional game. Possible?

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16 minutes ago, BLKHWK8 said:

THis was about dialog with the player base as a whole. You have asked for transparencty and dialog with developers, this is what this post was intended to be. The fact you are twisting what has been said here to your beliefs is wrong. Xoom has stated these are changes we are discussing. We felt we wanted to discuss it with playerbase to see if there was another idea we have not thought of. THis is not an Axis or Allied change, which has not even happened or been stated will happen. The changes discussed would be for the three LMGs in Game. 

Would you rather us remove the LMG class as a whole like we did the British AT Grenideir?

This comes down again to balancing gameplay and historical accuracy as well as utilizing game mechanics. The issue of the Rambo issue can happen on both sides period, however it is unrealistic as no one would do it in the real world as the threat of death would be there, in a game you just respawn.

 

To be fair, running into a room with a single Rambo smg would have also illicited a fear of death. That’s why grenades were so popular in such situations....  Oh wait... sore subject. 

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This is a discussion. My understanding is that the consideration is all 3 lmgs if it is done. 

My imput in this was just to state that any change being looked into was for undeployed fire only.

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I see no problem with the MP-40 or MP-34 they shoot fine, as i recall the RATS adjusted it already to appease the same gripes years ago , of course not with MP-34 it was not around then but again i see no issue, havent really tried maney allied weapons but that MAS i'm suprized i ever die to it LOL.

Will the .30 cal for the Allies have a buttstock, somewhat as they had for Paras ? Or just the standard issue style on a tripod ?

Great job by the way CRS.

S!

Edited by flong139
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15 minutes ago, xcas said:

Mess with  IT AND Watch and see---------------- and btw  YES allies smg's need NO fixing to clear out a cp, axis smg's well thats another subject,

It is ridiculous to take that attitude about something that is fixing a part of the game that is completely out of whack.  Given that it will effect Allied weapons as well, what in God's name would make you suggest that axis players will unsub en masse?  Does your side require the rambo-lmg in order to take flags?  No. 

I spend a good deal of my time guarding flags, and your SMGs clean my clock far more often than I would prefer to have happen.  If the german SMGs aren't as accurate as they should be, and that IS another subject, then they should be fixed in the upcoming small arms audit, right?  I would suggest 'going to the film' though, as undoubtedly Merlin51 will have a video showing the dispersion on all SMGs.  I will say the French mas38 is a pile of crud, so if the german SMGs are anything like the mas38, I feel for you.

 

We all know an lmg-wielding soldier should not be able to run in and clear a room/bunker.  

 

Threatening to unsub en masse if a flaw in the game is fixed is weak.  For the record, I wouldn't support it if Allied players demanded photon torpedos under threat of mass unsubs, either.

 

S!

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I don’t get it. I played axis for years before creating this allied account. The MP40 is a fscking fantastic weapon, you can easily snipe guys at 400m with it, and I have a massive tremor disorder!  On full auto the barrel jump is very easily controlled. 

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 well ive heard enough ! one of axis best guns nerfed ! go ahead nerf the LMG ! and after 16yrs of playing I will unsub ! how much more u gonna nerf axis side so CRS allies can win ? omg allies have the grease gun which is way to uber and doesn't even belong in game 1939 tier ! then they have tommy and bren which they can also shoot from hip! its all BS to nerf our LMG ! of coarse the allied players want in nerfed ! its ok for them to clear a cp with there uber guns . but axis cant have a good gun . and loading a gun while moving was done in real time just took a real man to doit ! my opinion which prolly means nothin here , leave it alone after all these yrs nerfing axis stuff now u gonna nerf our LMG ! DOIT AND I WILL UN SUB AND TAKE A FEW WITH ME I PROMISE U THAT !  another thing is I never play allied side cause they are overpowered ! I play axis cause we are underdogs always ! we adapt have better tactics !I am American and would love to play the American side but to easy for me ! axis players are the real warriors in this game !! EAGLE

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It has literally nothing to do with what is right/accurate, the gun defines some peoples entire WW2ol career. 

If its not coupled with some kind of buff/weapon, I think you will be surprised, you ever try to suggest lowering welfare? Entitlements never go down.

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32 minutes ago, xcas said:

Mess with  IT AND Watch and see---------------- and btw  YES allies smg's need NO fixing to clear out a cp, axis smg's well thats another subject,

I don't know of any historical basis for there being a significant difference between the various nations' SMG dispersion or lethality.

Over the years it's been suggested a number of times that dispersion was utilized by the designers as a game balancing mechanism. There doesn't seem to be another explanation for some of the intra-weapon-class dispersion differences.

Maybe this would be a good opportunity for a commitment, as resources allow, to move away from dispersion differences within a given weapon class except with a physics basis.

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You lot make me laugh threatening to unsub because a silly gun is being altered, go ahead do it really helpful cheers. The way that gun operates has costs CRS many subs over the years it's the most complained about gun around...it's beyond comedy watching a guy run the 100 metres in 8 seconds up a flight of stairs and clearing a whole CP while firing from the hip...it's pathetic 

This is a great change and will generate more resubs than it costs 

 

Well done CRS this game is all about key gameplay balancing.

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