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Movable flags not represented on the map

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I think it may be an interesting dynamic to not have the movable supply be represented on the map for the other side to see. Heck - maybe only have it show-up for HC to see for operational purposes.  I don't know exactly how feasible the 2nd part of that is - I guess the movable flags would represent their own brigade - so it probably wouldn't be workable. However - at a minimum - the other side shouldn't be able to simply stare at their map and see movements. It shouldn't be logged on the webmap either. If someone wants to log-in to the other side and spy - well I guess there isn't much we can do about that ATM.

I think it would give HC a little more power to maneuver and try to secretly maneuver their forces to create a push without the enemy being able to simply monitor the map and counter it. They would have to use a little more boots on the ground reports and subjective evidence. How feasible is something like this?

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This was given thought when flags were first introduced. It was decided against keeping them "hidden" primarily due to spying/griefing issues and that fact that knowledge or lack there of would have little effect on the general player base. The other major issue is that there is no way in-game to tell if there are six flags in one town or just one. In real life there would be massive amounts of logistical activity and other telltale signs that a major operation was brewing... none of which we have.

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Even if you did this, i think you would almost have to have it POOF on the map after the first few guys go patrolling the front lines in scout cars and pointing binocs at the towns, or using the air transport planes, which also have binocs for the co pilot, or infantry scouts even.

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8 hours ago, aismov said:

This was given thought when flags were first introduced. It was decided against keeping them "hidden" primarily due to spying/griefing issues and that fact that knowledge or lack there of would have little effect on the general player base. The other major issue is that there is no way in-game to tell if there are six flags in one town or just one. In real life there would be massive amounts of logistical activity and other telltale signs that a major operation was brewing... none of which we have.

Right. I can see why flags need to be freely displayed as it stands now. However, when 1.36 comes and all front line towns (and one behind) have flags, and the moveable flags have only a fraction of "garrison supply" - it seems to me that your point probably doesn't apply. Some HC is suggesting that the strategy part of the game is being removed. Well ... this could be a good way to empower HC to try to strategize attacks without showing their hand quite so much. I don't know ... i think it would be kind of cool to have the ability to build up forces without the enemy knowing ... and staging a push on an area of the map.

Again, we are talking about only a few flags with not a ton of supply as i understand it.

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2 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

Even if you did this, i think you would almost have to have it POOF on the map after the first few guys go patrolling the front lines in scout cars and pointing binocs at the towns, or using the air transport planes, which also have binocs for the co pilot, or infantry scouts even.

I don't understand the point you are making as it relates to my suggestion and 1.36

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On 12/14/2018 at 5:36 AM, Merlin51 said:

Even if you did this, i think you would almost have to have it POOF on the map after the first few guys go patrolling the front lines in scout cars and pointing binocs at the towns, or using the air transport planes, which also have binocs for the co pilot, or infantry scouts even.

Something like this would work best if you followed the Hearts of Iron approach to fog of war.  

 

In HOI, every territory has an intelligence value associated with it, from 0-9, depending on the level of intel gathering that is being undertaken.  If we apply a similar system to WWIIOL (which is something I ultimately think should be essential to WWIIOL 2.0) you could simulate fog of war by assigning a kind of points value system to in-game intelligence gathering.  

-Intelligence levels range from 0 - 3

-0 is the default and tells you nothing

-1 tells you if their are flags present or not

-2 tells you the name of those flags

-3 tells you their movement timers and approximate strength (i.e. supply)

-Any ground unit present in a certain radius (maybe EWS range?) around a town will provide the first level

-Any SCOUT CAR present in a certain radius will provide the second level

-Any AIRCRAFT present in a certain radius will provide the third level

-You could even apply some in-depth, side-specific bonuses:  once a week, the Allies get to use their Ultra system to intercept German troop movements for 1 hour // once a week, the Axis get to use their Enigma machine to encrypt their intel and hide all of their troop movements from enemy recon for 1 hour

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I like the idea because it gives players more mission types to do, but I think the system would need a lot of work. For starters unlike the HOI series which is primarily a singleplayer game or at least a multiplayer with discrete player interfaces. Furthermore, it has mechanisms that allow the opposite side to do counter-espionage. Something that is very hard to do in WWIIOL. It is also very hard to interdict spies, or address the issue of suicide missions. In real life losing recon planes, or even spies/informants was a big deal; in WWIIOL you can simply just respawn and try again. And lastly we have the big issue of spies. It is a real thing and it will happen no matter what we do.

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One very large issue with this is that it'll invite even more concerns over supply numbers. We see a plethora of "Just how many X do they have!?" complaints in side chats and voice chats when we can see the flags, and I'd guess it'd only get worse.

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I think in a perfect world that type of information would be presented somewhere outside of the game for tracking. I dont know that having to KGB the other side and count units, place it in a spreadsheet, and compare or whatever totally makes sense.

Seems like a perfect use for the wiki.

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I think it's pointless.

 

Because you have to make it easy for players to find the supply to spawn with, if the only way you find it is constant recon you provide an incentive and almost a mandatory one to sign in the other side and take a peek.

 

I'd much rather have aerial recon that comes back with ticket timer/supply count for a town or brigade, or photo recon that shows EFMS but both only if the recon plane makes it back and touches down.

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5 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

I think it's pointless.

 

Because you have to make it easy for players to find the supply to spawn with, if the only way you find it is constant recon you provide an incentive and almost a mandatory one to sign in the other side and take a peek.

 

I'd much rather have aerial recon that comes back with ticket timer/supply count for a town or brigade, or photo recon that shows EFMS but both only if the recon plane makes it back and touches down.

Oh, i was thinking post 1.36. So every town on front line would have supply. I guess the only way it would really work is if you didnt have to select brigade to spawn from .... and everything just went into the town pool. Of course each unit would ultimately need to be tied to a brig if it was moveable ... but maybe that could be done behind the curtains. Because from a players POV i don't think they care which flag they take supply from. Only care if unit is avail.

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1 hour ago, Kilemall said:

I'd much rather have aerial recon that comes back with ticket timer/supply count for a town or brigade, or photo recon that shows EFMS but both only if the recon plane makes it back and touches down.

Interesting idea. The landing back to base part is a must.

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