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OHM

Tier changes and other stuff

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OHM

We are making changes to equipment in the Tiers going forward.  Knowing what is coming in every tier has made the game boring in some degree.  

Not knowing what is coming from one tier to the next will make the game more exciting as there is an unknown factor of surprise. As like in real life you do not know what is going to really happen until it happens. 

Having the same stuff at the same time over and over is stale, Change will make your heart pump more , Weather you like it or not change is good. Just need to adapted to the new things that are going to come and this is just one of many changes coming.,  S!

 

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raptor34

I approve. Keep it up. I am enjoying the longer tiers and more historical introduction dates for some of the equipment.

Edited by raptor34

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Augetout

I like the idea of not knowing exactly what is coming, and/or when something is coming.  So long as it stays on the path of historical accuracy (I wouldn't, for example, be a fan of a Pershing arriving in early 1941), not knowing exactly what is coming and in what order, will indeed add to the variability of the campaigns.

 

S!

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XOOM
9 minutes ago, choad said:

Ok. Does the unkown factor of surprise mean that this is a change to reflect a more historical timeline. Or, will there be some degree of randomness going forward to continually spice things up? 

It means we are adjusting the introduction dates of equipment to be historically accurate.

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Mosizlak
10 minutes ago, XOOM said:

It means we are adjusting the introduction dates of equipment to be historically accurate.

Which won't make the game better. 

Not even remotely better. 

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Augetout
32 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Which won't make the game better. 

Not even remotely better. 

I disagree.  If this move is coupled with a revamped RDP schedule, (i.e. shorter goals), it will be a positive, and add to the variability of the game.

 

S!

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Mosizlak
3 minutes ago, augetout said:

I disagree.  If this move is coupled with a revamped RDP schedule, (i.e. shorter goals), it will be a positive, and add to the variability of the game.

 

S!

Wait til you're fighting tigers without the s76.  That should be fun for the Allies...

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Augetout
9 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Wait til you're fighting tigers without the s76.  That should be fun for the Allies...

I would imagine that there will be times when the Allies have a significant advantage for a couple of days, and vice versa, and I indeed do believe it will be fun, for both sides, to work to achieve those short term advantages, work together to maximize their effects, and work together to minimize the damage when the other side has the short term advantage----which won't be the same short term advantage each and every time.

 

S!

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raptor34
30 minutes ago, augetout said:

I would imagine that there will be times when the Allies have a significant advantage for a couple of days, and vice versa, and I indeed do believe it will be fun, for both sides, to work to achieve those short term advantages, work together to maximize their effects, and work together to minimize the damage when the other side has the short term advantage----which won't be the same short term advantage each and every time.

 

S!

Absolutely. 

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Merlin51
39 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Wait til you're fighting tigers without the s76.  That should be fun for the Allies...

Set up correctly, i would enjoy it.
Tiger numbers were very low in late 42 (They actually put several prototypes into combat) So seeing one was not common.
And when you did see one, it was a OMG WTF moment.

So if you recreate that decently in game, it should be like having a mini special event.

Oh it may suck a lot for the person who doesnt want to work or coordinate with any other people, and goes running at the thing head on solo.
But people working together and working smart will be able to take it out.
Tiger is not immortal, it can be killed with a T0 french ATG if you set the tiger up for a fall, or you get a tiger driver who thinks it is the thing for urban combat.

And in game mechanic terms, the tiger would only enjoy a very short period of being kind of unchallenged
In game terms tiger 1st enters combat in T2.5 and the M10 comes in on it's heels in T3.0
 

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Merlin51
3 hours ago, augetout said:

I like the idea of not knowing exactly what is coming, and/or when something is coming.  So long as it stays on the path of historical accuracy (I wouldn't, for example, be a fan of a Pershing arriving in early 1941), not knowing exactly what is coming and in what order, will indeed add to the variability of the campaigns.

 

S!

Id like to do 12 tiers, each representing approx 6 months, to more accurately bring units in, and maybe return RDP tier delay
as a bombing effect, but only allow a small delay, nothing that pits tier 1 VS tier 4 or the like.

The delay thing might be debatable i guess, but would definitely like to have the smaller 6 month tiers.
The you can get early year units and late year units coming in closer to how they did

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ian77
3 hours ago, choad said:

The thing i don't understand about this is, if this is a change to have things be more historically accurate in terms of release dates ..... Well then, after they make all the corrections, how is it going to be different each time after that? It's not like they are gonna say, well this campaign we are gonna shift the entry date lf so-and-so weapons to just shake it up. Seems more like a 1 time shake up to me.

Seems like just more unnecessary tinkering, which will only lead to complaints of, "Wheres our Stus/ATGS/Etc - axis have their paks and Pz3H" etc etc 

Just going to result in even more un-needed and unwanted complaints scrolling through chat night after night......

I hope I am wrong, but not seeing the love in game at the moment for this shake up...

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malvoc

Basically French got screwed in tier 1 we get 2 more s35 and 1 more char while axis get 3h and pak 38  French get no new atg no stuart and just a mas40 yay  and you guys think this is great lol if we were not winning right now you would see how bad this really is lol....

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goreblimey

Does it need repeating .. 

 

The allies will always be screwed by historical datees.

They Lost the battle of France and therefore ALL their production dates are skewed.

Who knows what the French should have.

The British kit is massively delayed by the need to resupply an army with current gear first rather than new designs. I suspect Cromwell may have been out  much earlier and therefore Comet as well. 

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XOOM
20 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

Does it need repeating .. 

 

The allies will always be screwed by historical datees.

They Lost the battle of France and therefore ALL their production dates are skewed.

Who knows what the French should have.

The British kit is massively delayed by the need to resupply an army with current gear first rather than new designs. I suspect Cromwell may have been out  much earlier and therefore Comet as well. 

We're using production costs to calculate the number of equipment across the board. The same budget has been allotted to all countries to ensure some fairness in this regard. Some units have been relocated to their appropriate Tiers of introduction according to the history books. Therefore the Allies are matched up just as much as the Germans are in terms of costs. They also have the same number of "heads" or spawn-able infantryman per flag type. This part was essential because it's the way you capture stuff in the game, of course.

As the war goes on, those budgets may increase, but the balancing act in terms of spending will remain across all countries / both sides. It's not red versus blue, but it will most certainly add fairness and bring history forward. I think that's something we can all agree on.

S! 

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XOOM
48 minutes ago, malvoc said:

Basically French got screwed in tier 1 we get 2 more s35 and 1 more char while axis get 3h and pak 38  French get no new atg no stuart and just a mas40 yay  and you guys think this is great lol if we were not winning right now you would see how bad this really is lol....

The French M1 Gun and Stuart are ahistorical to a Tier 1 introduction and were removed for that reason alone. The Mas40 was added, where as the Gewehr 41 was pushed out. The British M1 Garand was pulled, and they received the Sten Mk II and the Crusader, as the A13 numbers were reduced to add in additional Crusaders. The Germans did in fact receive the Panzer III H and Pak38. Some German armor numbers were reduced because of the cost expenditures. Allied armor and ATG equipment, because of its cost value remaining the same did increase, and older Tier 0 equipment was swapped with newer equipment.

The French did not get screwed. These changes are historically driven and it is my opinion that we are marching towards a more fair, but realistic game, at a pace that we haven't done in awhile. So while these initial changes may not promote your side's interest in totality, they are in fact representative of the war and the pursuit to a game whereby balance is achieved historically, budget driven, and by using data to make decisions and removing as much feeling of bias across the board as we can.

Please accept that as a factual statement. I will repeat: CRS is not out to cater, or go after, either side. WWII Online is our product and deeply important to us, representation of both sides are at a maximum within our group internally, and decisions are being made with data in hand.

These changes as described bring us closer to the realm of what we're trying to emulate here in WWII Online: reality, simulation, challenging game play, history.

While we do reserve the right to be human and make mistakes, we're trying to respond accordingly to valid concerns over sometime now to address inaccurate introduction date and number of equipment. As this is a game, and is intended to be fun as well, there's a careful balance in all of that. We're listening and absorbing productive feedback that works towards the betterment of the whole game. We'll continue doing that in the most unbiased way possible.

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GrAnit

So what are the new tiers and equipment schedules?  

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Merlin51
4 hours ago, malvoc said:

Basically French got screwed in tier 1 we get 2 more s35 and 1 more char while axis get 3h and pak 38  French get no new atg no stuart and just a mas40 yay  and you guys think this is great lol if we were not winning right now you would see how bad this really is lol....

You have to be fair though
Aside from the variety aspect, the S35 can still compete with what the axis have, it is actually a better tank overall than the Stuart.
Also, historically the 1st people to use the stuart in combat were the british and it was almost 1942 when they did.
It was not around to be offered to the French as a lend lease or purchase item before the fall, so it never really made much historical sense for it to
appear like it did when it could not even be delivered to the british until almost 42, even if france was alive and well with cash to spend.

And the MLE1937 is a menacing ATG for quite a while, the PAK 38 is not outshining it.
VS axis armor, it stays deadly for a long time.

Give the effectiveness a chance to play out rather than variety

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Augetout

The Somua takes patience to utilize in a good way-----not as much patience as say, the R35, or any other actual French tank for that matter, but it does take patience.  I can see the appeal of jumping into a Stuart and speeding to the battle area, but folks should keep in mind that patience is rewarded with the Somua.

 

We may, as a community, be failing to see the forest for the trees in all of this.  Additionally, we may at times unfairly punish the new CRS for the actions of the 'old' CRS.  Just looking at the first 5 days of their 12 days of Christmas deal, I can see that things seem to be picking up speed development-wise, which will make things better for the game as a whole.

 

In the meantime, there were some well-fought, FIERCE battles fought over the past couple of days.  I was at an FB yesterday that was absolutely locked down by (it seemed like) a dozen or so axis soldiers----it was a hellacious battle, taking 30 minutes or so, and help arriving from elsewhere, before control could be reestablished.  I was IN the South Antwerp AF AB when it was literally the only thing the Allies still owned in Antwerp-------that too was a hellacious battle that lasted for a few hours.  And, I've seen an uptick in the number of new recruits who have been 'recruited' into my unit over the past few days.  Perhaps word is getting out that warts and all, wwiionline is still the best game of its kind.

 

S!

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stankyus

Well Im willing to wait and see, so far on our end, its a complete fist in the rear end after watching what a few PzHs are doing to our tanker spawn pool.   When we can destroy some pzHs take the spawn and they can push us out with them, then rush the FB and lose 6 PZHs at the FB to sappers and 47mm atgs, yah I got a problem with the amount they where able to roll up on our FB. RARE!?!, hardly.   You want to put PZHs in T1 up against T0 tanks, no more than 1 per inf and 2 per Armored need apply at the very top end. Rather it be ZERO for inf and 1 for Armor. Im sorry 3 or 4 taking out 27 french tanks.. in an attack is BS... then to roll up on our FB with 6 later.  I guess we are winning, whats next to expect 4 Tigers in T2?

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bersi
46 minutes ago, stankyus said:

Well Im willing to wait and see, so far on our end, its a complete fist in the rear end after watching what a few PzHs are doing to our tanker spawn pool.   When we can destroy some pzHs take the spawn and they can push us out with them, then rush the FB and lose 6 PZHs at the FB to sappers and 47mm atgs, yah I got a problem with the amount they where able to roll up on our FB. RARE!?!, hardly.   You want to put PZHs in T1 up against T0 tanks, no more than 1 per inf and 2 per Armored need apply at the very top end. Rather it be ZERO for inf and 1 for Armor. Im sorry 3 or 4 taking out 27 french tanks.. in an attack is BS... then to roll up on our FB with 6 later.  I guess we are winning, whats next to expect 4 Tigers in T2?

i guess thats how axis tankers feel with a matti or char infront

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ian77
2 hours ago, augetout said:

warts and all, wwiionline is still the best game of its kind.

 

S!

 +1 S!

 

Ian 

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Capco

Well, memories are short around here.  

 

With all due respect, I would have faith in this approach if new CRS had a history of adequately balancing their spawnlists.  But... they don't.  

 

I can't say definitively that this is bad news bears until I try it out and get a feel for burn rates on supply, but all of my experience tells me that CRS will be walking on very thin ice with this approach.  

 

I respect you taking this risk, but I genuinely wonder if you realize how much you are rolling the dice right now.  

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minky
13 hours ago, XOOM said:

The French M1 Gun and Stuart are ahistorical to a Tier 1 introduction and were removed for that reason alone. The Mas40 was added, where as the Gewehr 41 was pushed out. The British M1 Garand was pulled, and they received the Sten Mk II and the Crusader, as the A13 numbers were reduced to add in additional Crusaders. The Germans did in fact receive the Panzer III H and Pak38. Some German armor numbers were reduced because of the cost expenditures. Allied armor and ATG equipment, because of its cost value remaining the same did increase, and older Tier 0 equipment was swapped with newer equipment.

The French did not get screwed. These changes are historically driven and it is my opinion that we are marching towards a more fair, but realistic game, at a pace that we haven't done in awhile. So while these initial changes may not promote your side's interest in totality, they are in fact representative of the war and the pursuit to a game whereby balance is achieved historically, budget driven, and by using data to make decisions and removing as much feeling of bias across the board as we can.

Please accept that as a factual statement. I will repeat: CRS is not out to cater, or go after, either side. WWII Online is our product and deeply important to us, representation of both sides are at a maximum within our group internally, and decisions are being made with data in hand.

These changes as described bring us closer to the realm of what we're trying to emulate here in WWII Online: reality, simulation, challenging game play, history.

While we do reserve the right to be human and make mistakes, we're trying to respond accordingly to valid concerns over sometime now to address inaccurate introduction date and number of equipment. As this is a game, and is intended to be fun as well, there's a careful balance in all of that. We're listening and absorbing productive feedback that works towards the betterment of the whole game. We'll continue doing that in the most unbiased way possible.

Fair enough. For a long time WWIIOL has leaned on crutch gameplay but applied the crutches in an uneven and haphazard way. I can respect this approach. 

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