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mingus

Hows the Mobile or PPO airfield idea coming along?

26 posts in this topic

If CRS could either give us more airfields or the ability to lift closer to the action in parts of the map where the current airfields are pretty far away from, I dare say it would triple ( Yes triple)  the Air game population.  Right now its frikkin tumble weeds 80% of the time because noone wants to fly far. It doesn't bother me usually, but I've heard many a pilot log in and see the distance to target from the AF and say "F-That!" and just log off.    Thoughts or updates my glorious Rat overlords?  TY

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Right now I think we are waiting to see the 1.36 results since their will be air at every airfield. But it's still on the list to evaluate

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51 minutes ago, BLKHWK8 said:

Right now I think we are waiting to see the 1.36 results since their will be air at every airfield. But it's still on the list to evaluate

Ty for the reply my good man.

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I was always a fan of having this option way back in the day, but one of the issues I noticed with the UMS/FMS concept was the "army out of a box" which just demolished and sense of realism in the game. I think we need to be careful about what we wish for here (and this is coming from someone who wanted exactly this since about 2001), since an airfield to close to the frontline will be 1) pretty ahistorical and 2) lead potential to a ton of airplane spam. We all remember the crazy airquake that would happen over some hot towns. I'm all for that, but there should be some sensible limits to PPO airfields so that you don't have bombers taking off and dropping bombs 3 minutes later.

Placing a PPO airfield should not be right at the front line but at least 4 towns away. There should be only 2 available per side. Building one should be hard and should take a lot of teamwork. Say 5-10 trucks and an equal number or 2x number of engineers total. It should require to be built in stages. All stages should be interdictable by the enemy, and most important it should be able to be shut down from the air alone and not require ground troops (but a para drop on an airfield to shut it down would be epic). There would have to be reasonable ways to defend the airfield (AA, a token infantry spawn pool), but no heavy weapons. And naturally it should be able to be repaired unless completely destroyed. This would promote massive bombing raids that take it out in one go versus individual kamikazee attacks that slowly take it out.

I don't think flight time is a huge issue right now personally. Even on my He111 runs I can easily make a round-trip flight, including flying up to 2k, bombing, and landing in 25-30 minutes, and close towns the flight is closer to 15 minutes round trip. I'm for PPO airfields more because it gives players more things to do and more mission types.

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Ahhh my idea gets new life, if you want to do yourself a favor search for it . I have a detailed version of that idea floating in these forums.

 

Edited by dre21

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sad reality is most if not all airfields were literally fields long and flat enough to support a/c.  No built up airports like on the map...imagine this setup: LW has an engineer class that can build these airfields, basically like a spawn that can spawn a/c.  It'll never happen...but imagine it.

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Tech is already in game to let the players make impromptu AFs: just let the planes load up when next to a truck or transport plane, as with the tanks and trucks, then see how it plays and tweak it.

 

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1 hour ago, thomboi said:

sad reality is most if not all airfields were literally fields long and flat enough to support a/c.  No built up airports like on the map...imagine this setup: LW has an engineer class that can build these airfields, basically like a spawn that can spawn a/c.  It'll never happen...but imagine it.

I suggested some time ago that each side should have a specialized engineer battalion that could do unique things like repair factories, build PPO airfields, place many standard PPOs quickly to build effective sandbag walls and antitank traps, and build pontoon bridges.  Each side would only get one of these brigades and it’s use would be strategic.  It would be heavy on engineers and trucks with little else, so very vulnerable to attack.  I think this would be a great addition to the game.

Edited by GrAnit
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Intial concept was discussed some time ago, and was agreed it would be difficult to build and would require multiple units. Again this is still in the brainstorming idea, and is on the back burner while we work for 1.36 etc.

 

My personal thoughts would be a combination of tying several PPO units together. A truck would place the airstrip (simulate clearing a field) and Engineer could get build the structures frameworks and then use repair kits to bring them all together. Personally I would like to see a demolition engineer class (Blowing FBs and Bridges) and then a Repair Engineer with repair kits etc.

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From a terrain standpoint, the way i see it is this.

No way, at least presently, for you to remove or bulldoze what is there.
You cant run up to a field with a truck, and try to deploy some kind of PPO and have all the bumps and berms and trees etc go away.

Probably the closest thing you could fashion up would be some kind of PPO you would go set up beside a road
that lives for a fixed amount of time, regardless of who is near it, like an ammo box does.
And you turn that piece of road into an adhoc refueling and rearming and rtb point.

Land, taxi up within range of the object, and get fueled and ammo'd up.
Spawning might be a bit harder to work out, as a guy's plane spawns on a berm alongside the road, or half in a tree, or a guard rail etc and he is screwed.
The guy setting it up would have a hard time doing so if the object was too big, and placing it right in the middle of the road could be bad if people hit it landing and what not.

If you found a suitable field that you could set up the same, fine, but at least you could use it where you can not find any good ground to do it on.
Down south can get pretty lumpy

Then just need a way to have to host show the rearm/fuel point on the map regardless of mission

Its not an airfield, but it would shorten rearm and rtb trips etc

Edited by Merlin51
dyslexic typo city

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I propose 2 concepts that would both require to first set fixed landing/takeoff paths near fbs (not customizable)

1. You can setup a dedicated PPO (fuel barrels? Radar station? Observation tower?) on a 10x10m tile adjacent to that air path (only). That PPO would rearm aircraft and allow rtb as REspawn (only). 

Question is: how would it be visible to non-mission members considering current UI limits?

OR

2. That "object" is defined as part of the FB as a new permanent building, so that FBs (or some of these) can now be used as origins to create air missions. HOWEVER these wouldn't offer any  fresh supply. It must first be ressuplied (overstocked) from real airfields. Some kind of modified air-FB concept.

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2 minutes ago, Zebbeee said:

2. It is defined as a new (permanent) FB building, so that FBs (or some of these) can now be used to create air missions as origin. HOWEVER these wouldn't offer any  fresh supply. It must first be ressuplied (overstocked) from real airfields. 

Doing so would probably pretty much obliterate the FB for ground use very well. You could still spawn it, but it would be an open golf course with little hope of fending
anything off cause it would be clear LOS to snipe everything from outside the cleared area.
An HE-111 for example is going to need a good 600m of unobstructed flat path with the ground physics simulation of an AF.
On NON AF ground physics, make that probably 800m or more as they will be fighting to gain lift speed.
That means you have to get rid of everything within that area, and bulldoze that much area relatively flat.
One berm, rock, tree, piece of collidable rubble, abrupt elevation change etc will have wrecked aircraft littering the place.

And being an FB, it is most likely open because it is BETWEEN you and the enemy, and closer to his town than your own.
So you have a not very defensible airfield sitting in the enemy's front yard begging to be shot up.

The map changes would be permanant, if you you hated it, there would be no easy going back, everyone is stuck with it.

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Good points @Merlin51, FB or else where, the fundamental point is that the map would have "fixed" areas where this deployment would be possible to do

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PPO airfields, in my mind, would be a rather short, narrow, single runway with a small building at one end that could only spawn 6-10 fighters only.  It could possibly overlay on a road,

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One simple solution would be to create a truck- placed PPO that would resupply aircraft and limit it to being placed 15 km behind the lines. And then leave it up to the players to figure out.

It won't be too hard to call out to a sides air channel that a resupply field is in place X. And then leave it up to the pilots to find it and figure out a way to safely land. The challenge of making a workable resupply field (no spawning) and landing at one would be interesting.

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I posted something similar on this a few years ago, but limited it to air resupply, a forward minimal base just to be able to respawn what you flew forward, reload bombs and ammo, etc.

 

Didn't get into the mechanics, but I would make it a very limited function, say one transport plane per brigade/AF, that has to land and place a grass strip, and the resupply/RTB only happens with friendly planes on the strip.

 

Keeps more CAS planes in the area, gives a reason for players to nurse their planes back to base rather then bail and lose, makes for more classic fighter sweeps to locate the 'secret base', but doesn't destroy the map with making AF placement/capture meaningless.

 

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I would think it should also be limitedto lower tier AC , that will work better with short take off and landings , as well as paras of course.

 

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4 hours ago, aismov said:

One simple solution would be to create a truck- placed PPO that would resupply aircraft and limit it to being placed 15 km behind the lines. And then leave it up to the players to figure out.

It won't be too hard to call out to a sides air channel that a resupply field is in place X. And then leave it up to the pilots to find it and figure out a way to safely land. The challenge of making a workable resupply field (no spawning) and landing at one would be interesting.

This is really the only feasible method.
Anything fixed is just an AF, and if you don't own the territory, you are out of luck, and if the terrain is not good for it, you are out of luck with a lumpy hilly air field.

A PPO with a spawn point, but 0 units in spawn pool, would allow respawn capability, simulating repair.
A supply object would take care of rearming and refueling.
It would need limited capacity like the ammo box has.
But you would need, for gameplay reasons an unrealistic graphic, perhaps just a chalk dust pattern, to assist the truck driver in aligning it so the respawn
point is on the road, and not off in the ditch or a bush or tree etc.

You could set such a thing in a field, but you would have to simply accept that many fields SUCK for landing and taking off an airplane.
Roads make excellent impromptu take off and landing areas, even for heavy planes.

Then you would need a small UI change.
Since at the core, this is an FMS, it would need a TYPE category and the UI to clearly show
AIR SUPPORT FMS, so riflemen don't go picking the FMS and wonder why they spawned at the AB.

Would be up to us ground support guys to clearly advise air of the location, as well as bring out some AAA defense
for the inevitable following EA who chases friendly air back.

Distance to front is easily control by min distance to enemy owned object, to keep the things a reasonable distance back so they don't simply
become an absolute camp attraction

The real question I suppose is, how often would anyone go out and set one up?

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I would think this would actually get used relatively frequently by the CAS guys. Plus it adds another layer to the game and something extra for enemy planes to hunt for.

Naturally people will whine when the airfield PPO gets bombed/straffed. But I think now with SPAA and Garrisons it won't be too onerous to defend it. I could see players dropping them close to a friendly town to take advantage if AI AA.

I would think this would actually get used relatively frequently by the CAS guys. Plus it adds another layer to the game and something extra for enemy planes to hunt for.

Naturally people will whine when the airfield PPO gets bombed/straffed. But I think now with SPAA and Garrisons it won't be too onerous to defend it. I could see players dropping them close to a friendly town to take advantage if AI AA.

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32 minutes ago, aismov said:

Naturally people will whine when the airfield PPO gets bombed/straffed.

My first reaction I think would be, watch what you drag.
Better to ditch in a field or bite it, than to drag back to your forward fueling point.

Close to a frontline town would be my last choice, but an unoccupied rear town out of AO range
would be good, but not too close, I'd use it as a fly through to make use of the AAA

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Would be lovely if one day the RTBs at such a field were not only put on the spawn list, but were also left as PPOs on the field, to be spawned into in turn. Would make for nice atmosphere as well as targets. If you want to spawn from a forward base you have to earn it, you have to protect your kit.

There ought to be a class of permanent logistics PPOs, and perhaps a logistics sergeant avatar, wherewith a side could place supply dumps for tanks, planes - whatever - here and there across their territory, in limited quantities, and in the places where they figure the supplies might come in the most handy. If the dumps were despawnable/respawnable, folks could make their own rear, advance, or side FBs, AFs, or whatever. What would campers do? BWAHA! Then you add spawnable, persistent, PPO units to the mix and things start to feel like a real war, and bombers get really happy. Don't put too very rigid a design to how forward AFs and suchlike can manifest, rather give the players tools to build what and where they're willing.

Then you can drive your truck out to the dump, sit for a minute while the supplies are loaded, then move them forward or back as the lines shift.

 

 

 

 

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I think having persistent vehicles is something we've all wanted since day 1. But it wound require a ton of coding work to create that. 

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While I'm sure that it might take more resources than it might seem worth, persistent units are already in game: When you are automatically despawned because you've been blown to kingdom come, an STO hulk is left in your place. That object could just as easily be the full model. Complex models would not be good for battlefield frame rates, but they could probably be used within limits. 

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