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gretnine

New truck audio

115 posts in this topic

30 minutes ago, madrebel said:

This sounds ... like a combined arms problem to me. How many trucks have tank support, ATG support etc?

If none, why no support? Numbers? Bush ninjas killing the ability for tanks to offer ZOC support? What are the factors?

It does sound like a combined arms problem. Except that the many generally wait for the few to get something going in game. Most wait for others to set up the action for them. They will stay on defense trying to get a kill and rapid switch to attack only when somebody else has done the work of setting an FMS. And guard the FMS?  Good God man they’re action heroes why would you give them such a task. It’s well below their super hero capabilities. 

Face it. This game relies on some people to do the “dirty work” so others can have fun. CRS should provide as many mechanisms as possible to make life easier for those people. 

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I dont disagreee per se, however, ZOC kinda implies .. what if we call it actively suppressing an area?

 

IMO much of this problem is because infantry are too self sufficient. Binos + bush tunneling = can’t keep infantry suppressed as they Rambo solo from their defensive spawns, through bush tunnels, and pop out in a perfect position to kill your tank or FMS giving would be defenders essentially zero chance of interdicting them at a safe distance.

 

been harping on this for years and all i get met with is “omg tanks will ruin infantry and the game will die etc etc” ... instead we have a dead AFV game and infantry doing things that completely ruin immersion. Typically i’ll Also get “well when infantry can climb and take a crap and all the other things infantry can do IRL then we have to keep all the other games crap in place”.

this is known as the perfect fallacy and its just plain flawed logic. Infantry have been molly coddled for 15 years as recompense for the state of infantry play at launch until ... 05(?) when speed trees first arrived. Seriously that speed tree patch along with the berms and all that crap, on that day we should have had colliders on the bushlines and today we’d be playing a radically different game. Instead we have to figure out how to slowly take the kid gloves off and hope the entitled brats don’t have too large a conniption.

 

Infantry have no business out in the fields on defense. AFVs should attack/defend open ground, Infantry hold CPs. If you can’t defend against enemy tanks with your own tanks then that is where you spend dev time. You either have a weapon imbalance (too common over the years) or you have some other problem where AFVs need some sort of FMS spawn on defense so defenders can at least spawn from behind the defense objective and flank around the attack.

 

imo

Edited by madrebel
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I was able to set several FMS in the attack on mendig.
Defending them, i was kind of on my own.
A few pesky AHC kept trying to cut them down with LMG's
But thats ok, i will trade you a couple bolt rifles for the more expensive LMG, and the Engineer who tried to satchel my face.

Yea, i missed out on the big push into the AFAB i guess but seemed more important to try to keep the FMS protected.

But what we really need to do to make the FMS's more successful is to make them part of the combined arms attack.
No code or sound or timer will help us there.
Need to form a group with the FMS driver, get a light tank or 2 or scout car, a towed gun, a handful of the people sitting at the map
waiting for the FMS before they spawn, and go out with the FMS

Take a minute and plan it out before rolling.

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49 minutes ago, madrebel said:

This sounds ... like a combined arms problem to me. How many trucks have tank support, ATG support etc?

If none, why no support? Numbers? Bush ninjas killing the ability for tanks to offer ZOC support? What are the factors?

everything's a combined arms/teamwork/leadership problem man... i distinctly remember axis pulling tigers, destroyers, ATG&AAA, inf screens, air superiority, and swarms of trucks, on a single town with 3min timers: the fail was blamed on bad teamwork...

i know there's a lot of exaggeration in the forums, but this AO (back in 3min timers) was no exaggeration. literally everything was thrown at a town, and you people still refused to pin the blame on bad design.

 

 

look man, a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

should a AO fail without teamwork + leadership + combined arms + scouts + paras + etc etc...?

or should AO's get battles, and fun battles with any of the +'s?

 

we're chin deep in auto-fail man, it's not fun.

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Played last night first time since patch.. I heard a Cessna, a hand blender and a boat with bad gas. I got very confused.. the Cessna turned out to be an Opel... WTF LOL the other sounds at first made me think my graphics was dying.

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24 minutes ago, major0noob said:

everything's a combined arms/teamwork/leadership problem man... i distinctly remember axis pulling tigers, destroyers, ATG&AAA, inf screens, air superiority, and swarms of trucks, on a single town with 3min timers: the fail was blamed on bad teamwork...

i know there's a lot of exaggeration in the forums, but this AO (back in 3min timers) was no exaggeration. literally everything was thrown at a town, and you people still refused to pin the blame on bad design.

 

 

look man, a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

should a AO fail without teamwork + leadership + combined arms + scouts + paras + etc etc...?

or should AO's get battles, and fun battles with any of the +'s?

 

we're chin deep in auto-fail man, it's not fun.

Why is it so hard to attack in your opinion?

IMO, the complete inability to predict with any accuracy where the enemy that you’re attacking may be since our world doesn’t limit infantry movement in any appreciable way.

IRL, a platoon holding an area would not send guys out in ones twosey fire teams, or more accurately for this game, solo to Rambo off through the bushes with an RPAT in all directions. 

Another failure of design, IMO, is destroyed towns and rubble. Once the buildings go down any flow to the battlefield breaks down as again, infantry can come literally from every direction.

search old barracks threads from a decade or more ago, you’ll find me railing on single shot MSs too. It’s WAY too easy to defend .. in part because of Tz3 considerations and gross over pop.

 

I don’t disagree that there are significant design issues however, you can’t design invulnerable attacks if players refuse to support the attack’s projection points.

 

Feasting on infantry used to draw AFV players. AFVs are now feasted upon ... solve this first then take a look at design.

 

AFVs in the country side should not be something infantry actively engage. Infantry should only seek to actively engage tanks in confined areas. Towns, terrain choke points, etc. 

 

Agree? Disagree?

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25 minutes ago, madrebel said:

Why is it so hard to attack in your opinion?

IMO, the complete inability to predict with any accuracy where the enemy that you’re attacking may be since our world doesn’t limit infantry movement in any appreciable way.

IRL, a platoon holding an area would not send guys out in ones twosey fire teams, or more accurately for this game, solo to Rambo off through the bushes with an RPAT in all directions. 

Another failure of design, IMO, is destroyed towns and rubble. Once the buildings go down any flow to the battlefield breaks down as again, infantry can come literally from every direction.

search old barracks threads from a decade or more ago, you’ll find me railing on single shot MSs too. It’s WAY too easy to defend .. in part because of Tz3 considerations and gross over pop.

 

I don’t disagree that there are significant design issues however, you can’t design invulnerable attacks if players refuse to support the attack’s projection points.

 

Feasting on infantry used to draw AFV players. AFVs are now feasted upon ... solve this first then take a look at design.

 

AFVs in the country side should not be something infantry actively engage. Infantry should only seek to actively engage tanks in confined areas. Towns, terrain choke points, etc. 

 

Agree? Disagree?

I've gotten grouchy after a year of trying to argue a obvious problem... go in-game and tell them 3min timers are coming back for the sake of: "battlefield realism" and you'll see where i'm coming from.

 

i'm sick of arguing this one point: battles should be the norm. the game is at it's best with a battle, yet there's too much suppressing it from happening

 

i've played for 3 hours at a time with the same insane cycle of AO > trucks > dead trucks/camped FMS/or 1.5km > boredom.

only getting the town contested when the defenders do not spawn, due to logging from boredom.

it's really pissing me off that only a few people can see this.

 

seriously, go in game and argue for 3min timers... log in for 3 hours and see all the inactive AO's... go blame the side for no teamwork/leadership... you'll see where i'm coming from

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42 minutes ago, stankyus said:

the Cessna turned out to be an Opel

So you've identified the opel as a 6 cylinder engine with functional rudimentary muffler?

Care to pick out the kitchen blender from the multiple videos on page 2
and include a video of your kitchen blender also

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9 minutes ago, major0noob said:

it's really pissing me off that only a few people can see this.

What do you want them to see exactly? At this point even i am confused?
What is it that you want, that you want everyone to say Yea this, we want this!

Trucks already got reduced EWS
Deploy time is short
Audio attenuation drops much sooner
Apparently all trucks are mistaken for blenders so everyone things their wife is in the kitchen making cake, so nobody knows you are coming.

Aside from making a truck silent, invisible, armored, and insta-deploy, i am not sure what else you are looking for?
Can you list something absolute? No vague stuff

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3 hours ago, major0noob said:

not that huge, we got 5 in, 2 were camped instantly, 1 was beyond audio range (i genuinely fear this is the new norm), another was cut from 500m away, and the last was list2's 400m warpable.

soo, it's 1/5 effective. still better than nothing.

but still loosing a lot of trucks/FMS before the CP's are captureable, and still rare to contest a town and have a viable FMS.

stadykill was pure joy after axis got their spawnable, though the only reason they got it is cause there were no defenders for 15min.

 

so, stuff's happening. though there's still a majority of dead, abandoned, and futile AO's.

 

edit:

there was 3 hours of non-start AO's preceding the 5 FMS AO.

man, i played for 3 hours and there was only 1 fun battle... guys, this isn't cool.

 

I was ingame yesterday, and due to NOT being able to hear the  opels as well as pre-patch, defensive ops/opel hunters were out farther than normal.  From my own experience I can tell you that it is tougher to find opels (obviously I haven't hunted Bedfords or Lafflies), and that it is taking an increased amount of teamwork to get the job done.  Hillescheim last night comes to mind.  I was finding them, (well, most of them), and killing them was left to Hack22, and some others, in overwatch powitions across the most likely avenue of approach(es).

 

Long story short, the Allies were attempting to adapt to the new paradigm yesterday, which caused much of the opel kills despite the improvements made to the sound level.

 

S!  and Merry Christmas

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40 minutes ago, major0noob said:

I've gotten grouchy after a year of trying to argue a obvious problem... go in-game and tell them 3min timers are coming back for the sake of: "battlefield realism" and you'll see where i'm coming from.

 

i'm sick of arguing this one point: battles should be the norm. the game is at it's best with a battle, yet there's too much suppressing it from happening

 

i've played for 3 hours at a time with the same insane cycle of AO > trucks > dead trucks/camped FMS/or 1.5km > boredom.

only getting the town contested when the defenders do not spawn, due to logging from boredom.

it's really pissing me off that only a few people can see this.

 

seriously, go in game and argue for 3min timers... log in for 3 hours and see all the inactive AO's... go blame the side for no teamwork/leadership... you'll see where i'm coming from

did you miss the part where i told you i've complained about this since forever? i'm suggesting its the fault of infantry and their freedom of movement - what is your suggestion?

here i'll go further. you need tanks to keep heads down/out of kill zones so your infantry can get into position. IRL, tanks were used for this but artillery was MUCH more common. Arty in games sucks and we don't really have it so lets just get to the meat n potatoes.

why don't we have tankers willing to setup ZOCs that trucks can then come deploy in? this used to be a very simple thing to find in game. my argument, infantry kill tanks far too easily out in the open leading to fewer and fewer people willing to spawn tanks, drive a few minutes, only to die to ninjas in bushes. its this main issue, tanks not reigning supreme OUTSIDE of towns that has snowballed into what you're talking about.

 

"its really pissing you off nobody can see" ... what? you haven't completed a thought or offered a theory/fix. you're just dumping your emotional purse all over the floor and crying ... should CRS model rocky road so you can work through your emotions? perhaps some sex in the city to go with it? 

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2 hours ago, madrebel said:

why don't we have tankers willing to setup ZOCs that trucks can then come deploy in? this used to be a very simple thing to find in game. my argument, infantry kill tanks far too easily out in the open leading to fewer and fewer people willing to spawn tanks, drive a few minutes, only to die to ninjas in bushes. its this main issue, tanks not reigning supreme OUTSIDE of towns that has snowballed into what you're talking about.

Totally agree with this. Like every infantryman is walking around with "SPR sticky bombs" loaded and at the ready. Regular infantry should fear tanks, not proliferate in hunting them solo. We should remove the satchel loadout except for a specific and limited class of trooper. But that's just my personal opinion. Also think tanks should be enlisting some sort of infantry support to protect them from such.

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2 hours ago, madrebel said:

Why is it so hard to attack in your opinion?

IMO, the complete inability to predict with any accuracy where the enemy that you’re attacking may be since our world doesn’t limit infantry movement in any appreciable way.

IRL, a platoon holding an area would not send guys out in ones twosey fire teams, or more accurately for this game, solo to Rambo off through the bushes with an RPAT in all directions. 

Another failure of design, IMO, is destroyed towns and rubble. Once the buildings go down any flow to the battlefield breaks down as again, infantry can come literally from every direction.

search old barracks threads from a decade or more ago, you’ll find me railing on single shot MSs too. It’s WAY too easy to defend .. in part because of Tz3 considerations and gross over pop.

 

I don’t disagree that there are significant design issues however, you can’t design invulnerable attacks if players refuse to support the attack’s projection points.

 

Feasting on infantry used to draw AFV players. AFVs are now feasted upon ... solve this first then take a look at design.

 

AFVs in the country side should not be something infantry actively engage. Infantry should only seek to actively engage tanks in confined areas. Towns, terrain choke points, etc. 

 

Agree? Disagree?

Agree to an extent. If by open ground you mean sitting in the middle of a football field sure.  Other games that have much better terrain fidelity and much more realistic infantry kit ratios still see tanks getting owned. Simply because they roll around as if they don’t need infantry support. Tanks need the infantry as much as the infantry need tanks. Real world terrain is varied enough that there are no shortage of confined spaces where tanks would get into trouble. Even in the countryside. 

Edited by minky

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52 minutes ago, madrebel said:

you're just dumping your emotional purse all over the floor and crying

yes, this is exactly what i'm doing... i am livid and emotional, there used to be battles every hour and now they're gone.

 

this one point: battles should be the norm. the game is at it's best with a battle, yet there's too much suppressing it from happening

 

 

and nothing was being done, steam bombed with 15min walk times and camped FMS's while people refused to see 3min timers were suppressing battles.

 

 

now, it's better, but anything's better than dead AO's for hours. there are babysteps and "researching data" while something drastic is needed, regardless of the consequences:

a battle should be the norm, without teamwork/leadership/combined arms/etc etc... those things should bring the best out of the game, not be a requirement for the game to function.

 

52 minutes ago, madrebel said:

why don't we have tankers willing to setup ZOCs that trucks can then come deploy in? this used to be a very simple thing to find in game. my argument, infantry kill tanks far too easily out in the open leading to fewer and fewer people willing to spawn tanks, drive a few minutes, only to die to ninjas in bushes. its this main issue, tanks not reigning supreme OUTSIDE of towns that has snowballed into what you're talking about.

yes... more things preventing the game to function... there's too many, the FMS was just my breaking point.

i said last year CRS might come to their senses in 3 years, judging by the babysteps and "researching data" attitude i still believe it'll take them 2 years to do something about it.

 

sorry about being soo emotional, i was the only one that argued against 3min timers. it was soo obviously a bad mechanic... the guys in game realized within the first week, it was soo obvious but nothing was done for 10 months. after soo many people left... it's difficult to be objective when the issue was was so blatant yet ignored

 

despite their efforts battles still have trouble developing and the problem doesn't get the attention or response it deserves.

Edited by major0noob

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51 minutes ago, madrebel said:

why don't we have tankers willing to setup ZOCs that trucks can then come deploy in? this used to be a very simple thing to find in game. my argument, infantry kill tanks far too easily out in the open leading to fewer and fewer people willing to spawn tanks, drive a few minutes, only to die to ninjas in bushes. its this main issue, tanks not reigning supreme OUTSIDE of towns that has snowballed into what you're talking about.

What’s funny about this statement is that it’s a function of the same problem that major0noob is talking about. Whether you bring a tank or a truck it’s really easy to locate the enemy position at the start of an attack. The choice of weapon to end the threat is dictated by the sound of what’s rolling in. Spawn rifle, listen, spawn appropriate counter measure and hunt sound. It’s all the same whether it’s a tank or a truck. 

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With small exceptions riflemen can not kill them (TANKS), they can detrack them, if they know the right spot.
You could pull the satchel off the rifleman, but he would not be able to clear obstacles then, so you might have to do something like adding a few extra engineers
or just giving the engineer an extra satchel.

Or you could drop the satchel to below track damage, though that may play havoc with destroying an FB or FMS or some obstacles.

Or you could up track damage, but that would play havoc with an AFV trying to detrack another one.

Not sure if the basic rifleman is an issue or not

RPAT's are easier, but the solution would probably be met with a volcano of hate.
RPAT spawns with 0 ammo, must get ammo from rifleman, ammo box, ammo truck, DLC Ammo bearer, etc.
though if RPAT spawns at FMS, he will just get ammo from it, so it isnt 100% perfect.

We already have specialized infantry in the sappers.
Could adjust those i guess? reduce to 1 HEAT charge and reduce penetration of HEAT charge so that there is a reason for RDPing RPATs besides range.
Could lower the amount in spawn too? i dont know offhand how low they are now though.

Or maybe all these ideas stink, none of them are flawless

The game terrain is no longer the hollywood golf course it was in 2001, so infantry are not exactly unable to avoid being seen like they were back then
and tanks now are terrible at camping infantry until things reach a point where it really isnt feasible to spawn anyways.
Back then the world had no grass, no trees except near town no nothing to hide in.
Now there is plenty, and if there is nothing to hide in between you and the tank, you should probably rethink what you are planning to do?

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25 minutes ago, minky said:

What’s funny about this statement is that it’s a function of the same problem that major0noob is talking about. Whether you bring a tank or a truck it’s really easy to locate the enemy position at the start of an attack. The choice of weapon to end the threat is dictated by the sound of what’s rolling in. Spawn rifle, listen, spawn appropriate counter measure and hunt sound. It’s all the same whether it’s a tank or a truck. 

well ... sound does travel and i'll wager some combatants IRL got pretty good at recognizing the enemy based on sound. 

FWIW listening posts, the ones with giant 'ears' and some dude sitting on the other end listening too it ... as the war went on these posts became more accurate than radar as not only picking up the allied bombers, but also type, count, and altitude. The info you can get from sound ... well sound is radar essentially. travels in waves, bounces, can be jammed ... etc. 

 

not suggesting all sounds shouldn't perhaps fade faster but, i mean, you have to have sound.

 

how about altering the defenders spawn timer, from the target town they're defending, based on the percentage of CPs owned? meaning, the more you lose the longer it takes you to spawn? defender timers are unaffected if spawning from DFMSes from rear line towns. timers also should be tied to pop so underpop D isn't steamrolled by mechanics ontop of numbers.

 

its a multi factor issue right, you've got time to battle (always favors defense), and you've got infantry able to safely project force via unrealistic bush tunneling ... as well as some other issues i'm sure. point is, resolving the bush ninjas doesn't necessarily resolve the issue as time to combat will always significantly favor the defense. 

 

point of attack has been far to vulnerable for a very very long time. you shouldn't be able to ninja flank and stop an attack in its tracks by blowing up a 'thing' that is meant to represent a division sized attack. it's always felt wrong to me.

Edited by madrebel

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56 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

With small exceptions riflemen can not kill them (TANKS), they can detrack them, if they know the right spot.
You could pull the satchel off the rifleman, but he would not be able to clear obstacles then, so you might have to do something like adding a few extra engineers
or just giving the engineer an extra satchel.

Or you could drop the satchel to below track damage, though that may play havoc with destroying an FB or FMS or some obstacles.

Or you could up track damage, but that would play havoc with an AFV trying to detrack another one.

Not sure if the basic rifleman is an issue or not

RPAT's are easier, but the solution would probably be met with a volcano of hate.
RPAT spawns with 0 ammo, must get ammo from rifleman, ammo box, ammo truck, DLC Ammo bearer, etc.
though if RPAT spawns at FMS, he will just get ammo from it, so it isnt 100% perfect.

We already have specialized infantry in the sappers.
Could adjust those i guess? reduce to 1 HEAT charge and reduce penetration of HEAT charge so that there is a reason for RDPing RPATs besides range.
Could lower the amount in spawn too? i dont know offhand how low they are now though.

Or maybe all these ideas stink, none of them are flawless

The game terrain is no longer the hollywood golf course it was in 2001, so infantry are not exactly unable to avoid being seen like they were back then
and tanks now are terrible at camping infantry until things reach a point where it really isnt feasible to spawn anyways.
Back then the world had no grass, no trees except near town no nothing to hide in.
Now there is plenty, and if there is nothing to hide in between you and the tank, you should probably rethink what you are planning to do?

All good thoughts Merlin. Maybe we just have too many HEATs running around at the moment?

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I for one would think about making each afv a localised low number (3-5??) spawn point for rifles only. Players could spawn in to protect the armor from sapper/rpat attack. This simulates combined arms at its best.

Back when the Anzac were at full strength we would make our own ZOCS, and they were secure against most other than sustained bombing. We rarely see this these days as numbers are low PLUS the new players we get are used to BF5 style attacks. I need to kill something in 1 min or i'm logging crap.

If they leave, so be it..The armor is now vulnerable.

On the opel audio front - yes the audio has changed BUT  my panny/dac just needs to go out a little futher to hear them coming. The opel cross country speed is still way too high...thankfully not as fast as an AP round through the fueltank (my favourite meteor)

Edit: @HATCH Is there any reason why bushlines at a certain radius from towns/fbs cannot be made unpassable (collider engaged). Is it game memory limited? A big part of getting armor battles is stopping the bushline warping. Of couse tanks need to be able to get through..or just make gaps in them to allow AFVs to pass through them.

I am just not sure of the game engine limitations.

Edited by dropbear
Bush warps

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1 hour ago, dropbear said:

Edit: @HATCH Is there any reason why bushlines at a certain radius from towns/fbs cannot be made unpassable (collider engaged). Is it game memory limited? A big part of getting armor battles is stopping the bushline warping. Of couse tanks need to be able to get through..or just make gaps in them to allow AFVs to pass through them.

I am just not sure of the game engine limitations.

The terrain does not know nor care where the bush is, it is a WORLD object with no connection to strat.
The town and all it's pieces are STRAT objects, they are actively tracked and maintained for state, ownership, etc.

So if a bush is totally impassable, it will be totally impassable everyplace for all things all times.
It's just a small tree in that respect.

I think bushes could have stems? trunks? what ever you'd like to call them, near the center denser part, you'd have to ask @Xl2rippr
That would not totally inhibit, it would inhibit vehicles more so than infantry, but it's hard to stop real people from hiding and moving through the overhang etc
in real overgrown wild bush rows and hedges.

You'd get a real surprise plowing down them in a vehicle though, depending on what and how you hit.

 

1 hour ago, dropbear said:

The opel cross country speed is still way too high

Hatch has not had time to fully audit them, just fix a few gross errors he found quick.
Even armored cars move cross country too quick, for probably same reasons.

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8 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

Apparently all trucks are mistaken for blenders so everyone things their wife is in the kitchen 

CRS says Opels will now make Margaritas in1.36!  This just in!

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46 minutes ago, minky said:

CRS says Opels will now make Margaritas in1.36!  This just in!

Opels only serve Schnapps 

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On 12/24/2018 at 3:07 PM, Merlin51 said:

So you've identified the opel as a 6 cylinder engine with functional rudimentary muffler?

Care to pick out the kitchen blender from the multiple videos on page 2
and include a video of your kitchen blender also

Look I know you all put some time and effort into it and being critical of the noise can be offputting.

The Opel does sound like a plane, like we have in the game. When I lived in Germany our local brewery had 2 ww2 era opel delivery trucks they ran around town in. They didnt sound like radials.  There is a whine to them, well the actual video of the Opel with the covered bed sounded like them even if its muffled somewhat and the engine whine is not as audible, but even there the deep tones are not as pronounced either.

The Morris, Betty and laffly sound too high of a pitch.  And yes I do have a hand blender at home that reminds me more of the ingame sound than the video of the laffly.  The high gear of the laffly sounds like some of the sound anomalies you get when the game lags or a player CTDs at times. Not trying to be a douche, they do need some touching up. 

I also still think the audio extends too far. After living on miltary bases half my life, even the GMC duce and a half you could bearly make them out from two blocks away and they are not quite. That was like 600yrds at night on a straight road with some trees and housing. Something that funneled sound down the street.  In Korea, they used to run ambushes through a bunker complex not 100m from my front door at the top of the hill at night. I could hear them enter the dirt road which was about 300m away but not by much until the M60s and .50s opened up on them and you could hear the breaks squeel. Soon as I heard them, I would watch for the ambush out my window and watch the flares bounce off the branches of the trees and hear all the MILES gear going off.  That being said the Opels where about half as loud in RL. Its almost as if the game does not take atmospherics or ground clutter in the distances sound can be heard.

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