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BMBM

Starting Monday: The Hardest Campaign Yet

324 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Capco said:

And the "why were the Germans better?" answer for this goes centuries back.   German martial prowess (and their tactical and strategic flexibility) was a culmination of both their environment and their ethos as a people.  It's fascinating.  

Sounds dangerously close to racial superiority.....

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8 hours ago, bogol said:

Yes, and my point was that mobility is more or less pointless unless you can AO towns behind enemy lines. What is the side that has mobility have to gain? In principle, the ability to bypass heavy defensive strongholds and encircle them.

If that is not a solution that the RATs are willing to entertain, then, perhaps timers to move brigades should be tuned in a side specific manner to better reflect the mobility of equipment. Otherwise, I really fail to see how the main strategic reason why the axis chose to focus on faster, less armored tanks early on during the war is relevant in regards to game play. 

Have you seen the plans for 1.36? This game is about battles not softcaps. Which is why you will find 1.36 interesting

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1 hour ago, Bmbm said:

Tier 0 is all of 1940. I don't have the number handy but the British produced far more than the 23 Matilda IIs that went with BEF to France. 3000 produced altogether, but that's into 1941. So yes, a considerable number. Tier 0 is not merely six weeks in May, it's all of that year.

Even Wikipedia has this right.  Most of the tanks were A11 Matildas not Matilda MKs.  Two very different tanks.

French Campaign of 1940[edit]

The Matilda was first used in combat by the 7th Royal Tank Regiment in France in 1940. Only 23 of the unit's tanks were Matilda IIs; the rest of the British Infantry Tanks in France were A11 Matildas.[24] Its 2-pounder gun was comparable to other tank guns in the 37 to 45 mm range. Due to the thickness of its armour, it was largely immune, but not impervious, to the guns of the German tanks and anti-tank guns in France.[25] The Germans found the 88 mm anti-aircraft guns were the only effective counter-measure. In the counter-attack at Arras of May 21, 1940, British Matilda IIs (and Matilda Is) were able to briefly disrupt German progress, but, being unsupported, they sustained heavy losses. All vehicles surviving the battles around Dunkirk were abandoned when the BEF evacuated.

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4 hours ago, jwilly said:

Certainly doesn't sound historically driven.

Why any Matildas in British armored units? Such units doctrinally at this early war stage should be all cruisers and lights.

And, where does "produced in considerable numbers" come from? The usual historical understanding is that there were 23 Matilda II on the continent (and none in England) at battle start...some of which were CS.

 

I think that they use production numbers not deployment numbers 

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Yes! Yes! Yes! 

Just add amphetamines for the axis and we're all set! :D

Edited by gavalink

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1 hour ago, ZEBBEEE said:

I think that they use production numbers not deployment numbers 

Also, until we have smaller RDP increments, meaning more tiers per year
a tier has to encompass all the way to december of that year

When we have more, tier 0 can run from opening day to june, and tier 1 can run july to december, etc.

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Most of the Matilda IIs produced later in 1940 went to British units operating around the Mediterranean. Does that pre-game history remain in place, or is it revised/eliminated as part of the game's backstory?

Later German weapon availability ( > T0 ) will be very different from history if it's assumed that no weapons go anywhere else, and the western front gets all production.

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The factories pumped em out, that’s all we care about. We don’t withhold panzers that went to Africa or Russia do we? :D

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8 hours ago, goreblimey said:

Sounds dangerously close to racial superiority.....

Or just history.  

 

"The Prussians believe – not without reason – that their virtues as a people can carry them through any trouble: martial discipline, sacrifice, a sense of order, but this sense of duty should not be confused with ignorance or intolerance, no matter what others may say. Prussians have always had to fight, but that has made them competent, not bloodthirsty. They have the potential to become a great continental power thanks to their martial traditions, many of which can be traced back to the Teutonic Knights. These could form the basis of a truly world-beating army. Under the right guidance, they could unite the German-speaking peoples into a single entity, dominate the Baltic and, perhaps, extend their reach far beyond the confines of Central Europe."  

-snippet from Prussia's Total War introduction

 

===

 

"Since the 17th century, the army of Brandenburg-Prussia was characterized by its initiative, maneuverability, and aggressive command at the operational level of war.  The Hohenzollern state often had fewer resources and manpower than its rivals, and thus the Prussians focused on quickly achieving a decisive victory to avoid a war of attrition.  The Prussians practiced what became known as Bewegungskrieg, or war of movement, in an attempt to strike at the flanks or rear of the enemy.  The Prussian emphasis on decisive battles instead of wars of attrition led to its being inexperienced in siege warfare, at which the Prussians have been considered incompetent."

 

"The Prussian Army is often considered to have used the flexible command of Auftragstaktik (mission tactics), by which subordinate officers led using personal initiative. This developed out of the relationship between the Junker aristocracy, who made up most of the officer corps, and the monarchy.  In return for political support from the nobles, the monarchs granted them greater privileges on their estates and greater initiative on the battlefield.  According to the theory of Auftragstaktik, the commander would issue a mission to his subordinate officers, who were to pursue the directive as they saw fit. Gneisenau was an early proponent of Auftragstaktik, and Moltke interpreted the theory as "the higher the authority, the shorter and more general" the orders; considerable leeway was granted to subordinates in order to pursue the goal.  19th-century historians saw Leuthen as one of the best examples of Auftragstaktik and an early example of combined arms."

 

That same environment and culture also produced some inherent weaknesses too:  


"The Prussian-style war of movement and quick strikes was well-designed for campaigns using the developed infrastructure of Western and Central Europe, such as the wars of unification, but failed when it was applied by the German Army to the Soviet Union and Northern Africa.  The Prussian and later German systems were regarded as weak in intelligence, counterintelligence, and logistics, but during the First World War the German Army was often able to lay its hands on British and French battleplans. If the enemy successfully endured the initial operational attacks, the Prussian system had great difficulty in Stellungskrieg, or war of position, though during the First World War those were not as pronounced."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Army#Characteristics

Edited by Capco

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Just wondering , will the French Armor units have their chat deactivated?  

Cause they didn't have no Communication from tank to tank , that is what made the Axis stand out over the French counterpart. 

So with Map marks and chat , the Axis will be severely in a disadvantage. Cause the one tactical Advantage the Axis had in 1939 early 1940 was exactly that.

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5 hours ago, Bmbm said:

The factories pumped em out, that’s all we care about. We don’t withhold panzers that went to Africa or Russia do we? :D

I would have thought the answer would be yes. 

Old CRS had a public backstory for the game: history prior to May 1940 remained unchanged, including history in other conflict zones. Thus, actions on other fronts that began prior to May 1940 were presumed to be ongoing, and by implication their resource requirements and interactive effects and consequences for France/Belgium fighting were unchanged, at least in 1940.

History after May 1940 in France/Bel;gium OTOH could be changed by game progression, and those game events also could have effects and consequences for other conflict zones...particularly conflict zones that hadn't commenced as of May 1940.

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47 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Just wondering , will the French Armor units have their chat deactivated?  

Cause they didn't have no Communication from tank to tank , that is what made the Axis stand out over the French counterpart. 

So with Map marks and chat , the Axis will be severely in a disadvantage. Cause the one tactical Advantage the Axis had in 1939 early 1940 was exactly that.

STOP THIS! just f'n stop - reality down to through the microscope is NOT needed.

you giving up your GPS map for all units? or - do you require the globe be actual size or are you fine with a half size globe? how about one life only? get rid of binos for all but mission leaders? such a silly argument.

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59 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Just wondering , will the French Armor units have their chat deactivated?  

Cause they didn't have no Communication from tank to tank , that is what made the Axis stand out over the French counterpart. 

So with Map marks and chat , the Axis will be severely in a disadvantage. Cause the one tactical Advantage the Axis had in 1939 early 1940 was exactly that.

Don't worry, not many people mark enemy units. In fact I bet within 15 mins of the new map starting a tanker (doesn't matter which side) will bemoan the fact that he died to an unmarked atg/tank and blame it on his team mates. Of course, he wont mark said atg/tank either!  :)

 

S! Ian

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11 minutes ago, ian77 said:

Don't worry, not many people mark enemy units. In fact I bet within 15 mins of the new map starting a tanker (doesn't matter which side) will bemoan the fact that he died to an unmarked atg/tank and blame it on his team mates. Of course, he wont mark said atg/tank either! 

I remember this happened too on Campaign starts #32,53,54,56,76,78,79,82-89,etc. 

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23 hours ago, Bmbm said:

Hey all. Here's a small primer for Campaign 159 to give you a heads-up on what's brewing.

Welcome to the hardest campaign yet.

Spawn lists are now balanced against equal budgets per tier, and apportioned according to TO&E (Table of Organisation and Equipment) in roughly historical ratios. The numbers have been adjusted for gameplay and equality in some respects, such as for engineers and sappers. Numbers are ballpark equal in terms of bayonets/dismounted infantry and also pretty much equal in terms of aircraft and naval platforms - reflective of a well-oiled deep supply chain. 

Some differences will be noted between factions. These represent national characteristics and doctrine, such as the higher ratio of automatic weapons vs bolt-action rifles for the Axis and the greater dependence on infantry tanks for the Allies. What one side may lack in one respect is redressed in another - be it armor thickness, gun caliber, bomb weight, optics or speed -  the trick here is to apply teamwork, to use your gear to best effect and to dictate the terms of engagement. Do not expect equality. Expect diversity.

The fundamental change from previous campaigns is the return to differentiated units: armor brigades are more armor heavy, infantry brigades are more infantry and anti-tank heavy than ever. In the air, fighter brigades and bomber brigades are also more pronounced according to their type, with but marginal ground-fighting potential. Naval and HQ units contain a sprinkling of everything for basic sustenance but can not be expected to for hold long against a full brigade.

These changes have been made to increase the WW2 flavor that is unique to this game, to give a whiff of the challenges soldiers faced in the real event. Challenge is what makes gameplay interesting: it is drama and desperation, it is the basis for opportunity and accomplishment. 

The decision to separate armor from infantry will - hopefully - lead to more infantry fights, more of that "oh sheet" feeling when the armor arrives and likely some amount of resupply and interdiction going on in the rear. We want intense battles in the towns but we also want engaging gameplay in the hinterlands: low-level recon flights, sneak ambushes, armor duels and company-size armor columns. 

The challenge for High Command is to use the armor wisely: the armor brigade is weak on infantry and should not be frittered away in line defense - keep it in reserve and only bring it forward when you really want, or need, to make your presence felt.

What to expect in Tier 0 (1940)

In the air
L’Armée de l’Air gets a few Curtiss H-81, whereas the Luftwaffe sees the introduction of the 109-F2 in small numbers. The RAF gets a gaggle of Spits and Hurris - no surprise there.

BEF Armor
The bulk of British armor comprises A13 and Vickers light tanks, with but a few Matildas as blunt and heavy instrument. 

German Armor
Plenty PzII, fewer Pz38(t) and PzIII-F core with PzIV-D and Stug3B stiffening. A hard tier that will require Flak 36 and Stuka cooperation for the Heer to survive and prosper. Blitzkrieg in France is a gamble, just like it was!

French Armor
This is the only tier where indigenous French armor has a fighting chance. There’s plenty of cavalry tanks and good supply of B1bis heavy hitters - but the 2-man turrets poses a tactical challenge and speed is not the French’s strong suit. The French tank force was a fearsome instrument in 1940, and it is so here too!

Infantry
German infantry brigades have a slight edge in automatic weapons. A few Pak 38 antitank guns is the ace card, beside the venerable Flak 36. Also, the Sdkfz 251 makes an early debut. For the French, a few Mas40 semiautomatic rifles have found their way into the inventory and they also get some support from R35 infantry tanks. The British infantry brigades have their particular ace: Matilda infantry tanks, produced in considerable numbers and doctrinally attached to the foot-sloggers for support. 

We'll get back with more intel on what's in store for tier1 and tier2 as they approach - in the mean time, 

Have a wonderful battle!

(and as always, if you find a glaring error do please let us know and we’ll do our best to correct it)

 

Not wanting to be a buzz kill, but who is this campaign going to be the "hardest" for, and why?

The poor sods in HC?

The Allies?

The Axis?

All Players in general trying to find the equipment they like to spawn?

CRS fielding even more complaints for tinkering with spawn lists again and the Tiers, should one side start to roll the map or be perceived to be the "winner" in the spawnlist war?

Everyone, as we watch a stalemate map that crawls along due to Overpop cap timers? 

Hardest??

 

Cant we have "the best", "the most exciting" or "the most historical" (not actually desired by this player) or "the most fun" - you make it sound like this game which I presume most of us play for fun is a chore. Mind you with Over Pop cap timers and fewer and fewer willing to guard it is turning into a chore for some.

 

S! ian 

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20 hours ago, bogol said:

Otherwise, I really fail to see how the main strategic reason why the axis chose to focus on faster, less armored tanks early on during the war is relevant in regards to game play. 

I believe that the Versailles Treaty may have had a major influence on tank design and manufacturing by forcing the Germans to obfuscate their military rearmament and training.

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YES! BmBm becoming a rat volunteer can only be a good thing. Thrilled to see ya applying your exquisite vernacular and  deep and diverse experience in the virtual combat arena back to our ww2 online once again.     

On the new changes this upcoming map... a thousand times yes! This is awesome, and some will [censored], as they do, but this approach , I think, will really add to the immersion and also potentially lead to folks being forced to develop better basic fundamental skills of varying types in order to succeed.  Something that will lead to better battles moving forward.  Diggin it!  S!

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2 hours ago, ian77 said:

Not wanting to be a buzz kill, but who is this campaign going to be the "hardest" for, and why?

It’s going to be tough for everyone in various ways and at different times through the tiers. ”Hardest” is a way of getting you pumped :) hope you enjoy the challenge, whatever it might be!

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Hardest means to me that tankers have to learn how to use a rifle and to die by them. :)

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56 minutes ago, Bmbm said:

It’s going to be tough for everyone in various ways and at different times through the tiers. ”Hardest” is a way of getting you pumped :) hope you enjoy the challenge, whatever it might be!

 

So happy....I've waited almost two decades for this. Crying tears of joy.

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On 13/01/2019 at 8:34 PM, bogol said:

Nice attempt to introduce some diversity in the old tier system. I hope it will lead to increased cooperation across different branches. 

One problem though with the "blitzkrieg " approach to T0 for the Axis.  That would work only if one can actually place AO's on rear towns, thus flanking and bypassing heavily defended frontline towns. Otherwise, al of this talk about blitzkrieg is just doctrine, with little relevance on the field.

Beware the Myth of the Blitzkrieg. There is a very good reason German Copper resources where so low: so much had been used on shells that had been stockpiled. As BMBM says the High Command where expecting fight a WWI esque fight, where the armour kept up with the infantry.  The Germans where ready to fight the last war, where as the British where fighting the next and had heavily motorised themselves. Yes the BEF was the most Mechanised force in the BoF.

The new theory therefore is "intelligent disobedience" won the BoF not any high level plan to do what Rommel did for example. Was their "Bitzkrieg" in  Poland? That campaign was geographically loaded in the Germans favour so not a fair sample.

 

Edit: Oh crud im getting into history debates again. I like the premise of the original post a lot. Good luck  out there all!

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I'm effin thrilled. We all get to relearn the game and our sides and experiment with what works at what times.   Brilliant move Oh glorious Rat gods.  Tis a break from the reoccurring hamster running wheel that has run its damn course a million times over.

 

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Thanks all for the history lessons on Blitzkrieg and maneuver warfare. 

My using the term was hopefully denoting the same thing bmbm was referencing when he stated: 

Quote

 Blitzkrieg in France is a gamble, just like it was!

 

Anyhow, we shall see how this gamble pays off for axis, soon. 

Have a fun campaign everyone! 

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29 minutes ago, bogol said:

Thanks all for the history lessons on Blitzkrieg and maneuver warfare. 

My using the term was hopefully denoting the same thing bmbm was referencing when he stated: 

 

Anyhow, we shall see how this gamble pays off for axis, soon. 

Have a fun campaign everyone! 

dont be a PP head, you dont even play anymore. youre just starting [censored].

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