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World War II Online is a Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter based in Western Europe between 1939 and 1943. Through land, sea, and air combat using a ultra-realistic game engine, combined with a strategic layer, in the largest game world ever created - We offer the best WWII simulation experience around.

BMBM

Starting Monday: The Hardest Campaign Yet

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dre21
17 hours ago, Bmbm said:

I've never had any trouble getting it out of the garage, but I'll take a look at the collider to see if there's a problem there. I've never attempted hitting anything at 2000+ meters because IMO it's generally a waste of ammo and needlessly reveals your position. Even so the allies doesn't have anything in the inventory except aircraft that will cause problems for an 88 over 1500 or so, the BEF in particular.  I've mostly shot the french 47 mm - never farther than 1200 m for the same reasons.

I certainly don't agree that the 88 is such a POS as you make it out to be. Plenty dead allied tankers will likely disagree as well.

To the 88 , just a few days ago I was 88 hooked up HT pulled ahead 88 tipped over had to respawn  , it's clipping somewhere.

2nd you must not use your commander to see where your rounds land or do you? 

I have scored 1500 to 1800 meter kills with Stug3b even on Armor . Best one was a Stu that sat below me in a Valley he tried to reach me , the Arc of my shot was insane and took approx 3 sec before it made impact and flamed him , M10 are also a good target with the HE round as are AAA and ATG that have no clue you saw them , and because of the arc they can't follow the tracers.

I got no issues with 2000+ shots only get dissapointed when my round seems to time out but theirs seem not to do so .

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major0noob
2 hours ago, dre21 said:

To the 88 , just a few days ago I was 88 hooked up HT pulled ahead 88 tipped over had to respawn  , it's clipping somewhere.

2nd you must not use your commander to see where your rounds land or do you? 

I have scored 1500 to 1800 meter kills with Stug3b even on Armor . Best one was a Stu that sat below me in a Valley he tried to reach me , the Arc of my shot was insane and took approx 3 sec before it made impact and flamed him , M10 are also a good target with the HE round as are AAA and ATG that have no clue you saw them , and because of the arc they can't follow the tracers.

I got no issues with 2000+ shots only get dissapointed when my round seems to time out but theirs seem not to do so .

do you get more reliable results with the low velocity guns too?

in my experience tanking (both giving and receiving), the faster rounds do nothing often and the low velocity ammunition consistently gets results

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BMBM
2 hours ago, dre21 said:

To the 88 , just a few days ago I was 88 hooked up HT pulled ahead 88 tipped over had to respawn  , it's clipping somewhere.

I know some garages have a short but steep ramp, might be part of the problem? Will take a look at the collider today - we've fixed the Bofors and are fixing other ATG colliders so it's part of the ongoing work anyway.

 

3 hours ago, dre21 said:

2nd you must not use your commander to see where your rounds land or do you? 

Depends on the distance. I usually quickswitch to commander but TBH I haven't got that much playtime in any gun for some time.

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caydel

I don't know how the bulk of the playerbase feels about the 88, but I have a lot of respect for the players who have mastered it.

Fairly recently, I watched an 88 get towed by a HT from a firebase ~2.3k away. I was up on a hill, and I had the 47mm, so AP only. I placed hits into both the HT and 88 as they drove. Eventually, the 88 unhitched, deployed, and shot me at ~2.2km with a massive elevation difference. He didn't spend any rounds finding distance - he took one shot, and killed my crew.

Maybe the 88 is a difficult unit to use, but those who have mastered it can do truly terrifying and impressive things!

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BMBM
1 hour ago, Bmbm said:

Will take a look at the collider today - we've fixed the Bofors and are fixing other ATG colliders so it's part of the ongoing work anyway.

Sad to report that there is indeed an issue with the gunshield collider being a tad too high but happy to notify y'all that this is easily fixed and to be patched in as soon as we can get it verified. One bug squashed, a few (lol) remaining.

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matamor

My first real 88 sortie in 3-4 years if not more.  I mastered it long time ago and I can ensure devs that the 88 needs some auditing. Abnormal to get 4 hits on R35 and only a kill. Same on the pan 2 hits 0 kills and I was alone shooting from south hills Haybes on AB. Roughly 1.2k. Also the  gun goes wild after shooting instead of keeping his aim targetted from his last shot. I shot over 150 HE shots in a crowded AB with no hits or kills on infantry....

Edited by matamor

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Kilemall
8 minutes ago, matamor said:

My first real 88 sortie in 3-4 years if not more.  I mastered it long time ago and I can ensure devs that the 88 needs some auditing. Abnormal to get 4 hits on R35 and only a kill. Same on the pan 2 hits 0 kills and I was alone shooting from south hills Haybes on AB. Roughly 1.2k. Also the  gun goes wild after shooting instead of keeping his aim targetted from his last shot. I shot over 150 HE shots in a crowded AB with no hits or kills on infantry....

At 1.2 km you AREN'T going to get inf kills, they don't render so your client doesn't send the 'you dead homeboy' message to the servers and ultimately the inf.

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BMBM

Sounds like an ammo issue? Note that what looks like a certain kill may in fact be hitting a sloped surface and glancing off. The "gun going wild" issue, do you reckon that is when firing in any azimuth? I've noted that it goes off kilter the more you traverse, which is likely due to the shorter side legs not coping with the recoil as well as the longitudinal base.

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matamor
6 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

At 1.2 km you AREN'T going to get inf kills, they don't render so your client doesn't send the 'you dead homeboy' message to the servers and ultimately the inf.

This is why I posted it for future clients upgrades. Few years ago we were able to see infantry at larger distance. Thanks

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matamor
11 minutes ago, Bmbm said:

Sounds like an ammo issue? Note that what looks like a certain kill may in fact be hitting a sloped surface and glancing off. The "gun going wild" issue, do you reckon that is when firing in any azimuth? I've noted that it goes off kilter the more you traverse, which is likely due to the shorter side legs not coping with the recoil as well as the longitudinal base.

Due to hills elevation, my rounds mostly reached the tops of the ETs. I remember that years ago from that same hills my 88 would have flame or pop them square.  Especially on these tier0 armors. Lol

Edited by matamor

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BMBM

Ammo audits and improved ballistics modeling (including but not restricted to incidence and ricochets) might have something to do with this. The code is very detailed, more so than during the early years, and no single shot (at range and at different aspects/elevation) will be like another. This is kinda out of my league though so treat it as speculation.

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matamor
5 minutes ago, Bmbm said:

Ammo audits and improved ballistics modeling (including but not restricted to incidence and ricochets) might have something to do with this. The code is very detailed, more so than during the early years, and no single shot (at range and at different aspects/elevation) will be like another. This is kinda out of my league though so treat it as speculation.

I just wanted to share my bad experience with my youthful beloved 88 gun. 

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dre21
3 hours ago, major0noob said:

do you get more reliable results with the low velocity guns too?

in my experience tanking (both giving and receiving), the faster rounds do nothing often and the low velocity ammunition consistently gets results

From what I have gathered /witnessed is that the ARC of the low velocity gun works very well cause it makes impact on the top structure of the ET and most ETs have rather light armor on the top decking , so most are penetrating hits and kills. 

I very seldom use AP rounds , only certain tanks require it A13 for one , HEAT does almost nothing to it due to spaced armor, but the AP slices it nicely.

The other thing I have noticed and addressed here in the forum through out the years is. 

That you can have a shootout with another tank (high or higher velocity guns ) and not one scores a kill but the 1st one that decides to back out of the engagement get killed. Many times I have decided well instead of wasting ammo I'll just back up , and as soon as I do the next round goes through. So now I hardly ever even back out anymore  , cause it's not worth it.

 

BTW that clipping issue with the 88 was at an FB not an AB .

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BMBM
49 minutes ago, dre21 said:

BTW that clipping issue with the 88 was at an FB not an AB .

Yup, identified and fixed. Thanks for bringing it to light.

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minky
14 hours ago, scotsman said:

There is a LOT of competition out there for the gaming dollar. Many titles are far deeper resource baskets than the current rats have. I'm not sure what the answer is...but no game has ever made my heart pound or curse like this one... and I have something to go by as an ex infantryman. I think that says a lot for the concept. 

The question remains how to win vs the likes of fortnight and so many others. Just like real combat there can be periods of inactivity followed by the moments of terror in BGE. The instant gratification games are better tailored to some part of the player audience that demand that, or those with limited play time

I play a lot of WWII games.  It is a mistake to think that WWII Online now has a corner on the realism market.  I was beta testing Hell Let Loose the other day.  My squad was moving to a capture point together and got in over its head.  I had to use my .30 Cal machine gun to suppress while the rest of the squad disengaged from contact.  At one point I heard one of the guys actually say "I up, they see me, I'm down" while doing short sprints to move away.  That experience happened exactly 0 times in 16 years of playing WWIIOL.  I actually end up talking to a lot of ex WWIIOL players because I use the same game name in all the games (not this game name, the other one that was perma banned completely from the game and the forums for arguing on said forums).  I have had the "post mortem" discussion on WWIIOL many times with people while playing other games.

Understand this because it is important.  WWIIOL is a sandbox shooter.  It used to be bigger than the shoebox shooters of old but it is no bigger than any modern sandbox shooter.  You don't really have a monopoly on map size anymore in a practical sense.  You can talk about the scale map of Europe all you want but the fact of the matter is that most battles take place in a relatively small area around the FB and Town of an attack objective.  Nobody drives from AO to AO on the ground.  In some cases the battle space is actually smaller than a lot of modern shooters.  Different AOs are really just like playing different "maps" in any other shooter.  Why do I as a player care that I could technically drive from that AO in Antwerp all the way down to that other AO in Dinant?  The map is essentially empty and useless between the two AOs.  I know that and you know that so for the most part neither of us are venturing there.  Newer shooters are providing, in many cases, a larger practical play area with more varied terrain and a more realistic infantry experience.  A lot of them are providing much better squad play and small unit tactics.  Even when squads work together in WWIIOL they are not using very sound small unit tactics.  One of the major adjustments my squad had to make was that we had to use more realistic tactics while playing other games. 

There are a lot of inbred ostriches who bury their head in the sand and refuse to look outside of family for answers around here.  WWIIOL does a lot of things really well but fails to capitalize on them and it could stand to learn a thing or two by evaluating other games.

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BMBM
6 minutes ago, minky said:

Nobody drives from AO to AO on the ground.

I do. I often find myself the last living tank on an AO with the FB blown behind me - so I RTB to origin or whatever town's closest, normally a 30 minute plus drive. I frequently drive from AB to the boonies beyond the AO to clear the intervening ground, get good SA and flank the flankers. I don't mind the hours spent doing that. One good mission is better than ten fast commutes that ends in fire and tears IMO, but then I'm I realism nut too.

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aismov

I agree with BMBM. This is common for pilots: you divert to a mission elsewhere. A lot of the other shooters out there can't model true CAS which is why they resort to AI scripts that "simulate" air power. The same could be said about the Navy game. The feeling know that physical players are in the planes makes a huge difference.

Plus it's interdictable. And with 1.36 we bring the supply and logistics equation back into the picture who other shooters don't have.

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Augetout
58 minutes ago, minky said:

At one point I heard one of the guys actually say "I up, they see me, I'm down" while doing short sprints to move away.  That experience happened exactly 0 times in 16 years of playing WWIIOL.

With all respect, you haven't been in the right areas, or around the right people, then.  Lafayette Federation taught the "I'm up they see me I'm down" movement technique even back in 2001.  There are bunches of people who choose to use realistic techniques, in WWIIOnline.  There are bunches of people who are annoyed when we see folks choosing to rely on lag, etc. to overcome obstacles that fundamental Infantry tactics (or for that matter any/all of the other weapon platforms) would accomplish.

 

I do agree, however, that WWIIOnline could speed the process of improving up by looking at and evaluating other games in the same genre.  One wonders how many of the new games (aren't most mods of other games being marketed as new games?), are efforts BY former WWIIOnline players to improve the breed...

 

S!

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Augetout
1 hour ago, minky said:

Nobody drives from AO to AO on the ground.

Not accurate.  Some do, and I believe with the coming of 1.36, we'll see more and more of that sort of thing, once again.

 

S!

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Merlin51
1 hour ago, minky said:

Nobody drives from AO to AO on the ground.

Wanna bet?
Last campaign, i spent 2 hours running people all over the place in a laffly
The same laffly, went to multiple different towns and FB's

 

I've also driven B1's to suddenly show up at a british AO out of no where.
Back in the day, when i was in BKB, we would many times drive up to the next AO etc unless it was a jump halfway across the map
it was fun.

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BLKHWK8
5 hours ago, caydel said:

I don't know how the bulk of the playerbase feels about the 88, but I have a lot of respect for the players who have mastered it.

Fairly recently, I watched an 88 get towed by a HT from a firebase ~2.3k away. I was up on a hill, and I had the 47mm, so AP only. I placed hits into both the HT and 88 as they drove. Eventually, the 88 unhitched, deployed, and shot me at ~2.2km with a massive elevation difference. He didn't spend any rounds finding distance - he took one shot, and killed my crew.

Maybe the 88 is a difficult unit to use, but those who have mastered it can do truly terrifying and impressive things!

88 Commander has a range finder so that is why it hit you after one shot. I love the 88 very lethal when used correctly

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Merlin51
5 hours ago, caydel said:

Maybe the 88 is a difficult unit to use, but those who have mastered it can do truly terrifying and impressive things!

Something much overlooked.
You can multi crew the 88 (any ATG really), and that commander has a range finder with good binocs.
While the gunner is blasting things, the commander can very accurately spot and mark the incoming targets
so the gunner has only to set range, aim and fire.

If you are trying to take out the 88, use HE
You have to kill the crewmen, and with AP if you miss thier bodies a bit, they will just deploy and fire back.
If you are having to hit it frontally, try and hit the gun body, that way the frags will spray out behind the gun shield wounding the crew.

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minky
1 hour ago, aismov said:

I agree with BMBM. This is common for pilots: you divert to a mission elsewhere. A lot of the other shooters out there can't model true CAS which is why they resort to AI scripts that "simulate" air power. The same could be said about the Navy game. The feeling know that physical players are in the planes makes a huge difference.

Plus it's interdictable. And with 1.36 we bring the supply and logistics equation back into the picture who other shooters don't have.

The air game is the perfect example of where WWIIOL should have an epic advantage over other games but squanders it. Right now the Axis have a 25 percent TOM advantage versus the Allies. It is the tier where they match up the absolute best and they have been given additional weapons in that tier this campaign. Yet all that they can manage is a close to equal 802 sorties versus 823 for the Allies. With over 25 percent TOM in their favor... DB -7s and Havocs have over a 3.0 K/D once again.  Any LW bombers getting close to that? This is the absolute best performance the LW has come up with in awhile yet I suspect it will only fall off from here. What you have in the CAS realm  in this game is complete and utter domination from one side. It has been so for a decade. It is not even on CRS’s radar to fix.   What should be one of the game’s coolest features is actually squandered and turned into one of its major weaknesses. I would love to see a total listing of the number of sorties for each side by campaign over the last decade. 

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Kilemall
2 hours ago, minky said:

I play a lot of WWII games.  It is a mistake to think that WWII Online now has a corner on the realism market.  I was beta testing Hell Let Loose the other day.  My squad was moving to a capture point together and got in over its head.  I had to use my .30 Cal machine gun to suppress while the rest of the squad disengaged from contact.  At one point I heard one of the guys actually say "I up, they see me, I'm down" while doing short sprints to move away.  That experience happened exactly 0 times in 16 years of playing WWIIOL.  I actually end up talking to a lot of ex WWIIOL players because I use the same game name in all the games (not this game name, the other one that was perma banned completely from the game and the forums for arguing on said forums).  I have had the "post mortem" discussion on WWIIOL many times with people while playing other games.

Understand this because it is important.  WWIIOL is a sandbox shooter.  It used to be bigger than the shoebox shooters of old but it is no bigger than any modern sandbox shooter.  You don't really have a monopoly on map size anymore in a practical sense.  You can talk about the scale map of Europe all you want but the fact of the matter is that most battles take place in a relatively small area around the FB and Town of an attack objective.  Nobody drives from AO to AO on the ground.  In some cases the battle space is actually smaller than a lot of modern shooters.  Different AOs are really just like playing different "maps" in any other shooter.  Why do I as a player care that I could technically drive from that AO in Antwerp all the way down to that other AO in Dinant?  The map is essentially empty and useless between the two AOs.  I know that and you know that so for the most part neither of us are venturing there.  Newer shooters are providing, in many cases, a larger practical play area with more varied terrain and a more realistic infantry experience.  A lot of them are providing much better squad play and small unit tactics.  Even when squads work together in WWIIOL they are not using very sound small unit tactics.  One of the major adjustments my squad had to make was that we had to use more realistic tactics while playing other games. 

There are a lot of inbred ostriches who bury their head in the sand and refuse to look outside of family for answers around here.  WWIIOL does a lot of things really well but fails to capitalize on them and it could stand to learn a thing or two by evaluating other games.

This is a big part of why I'm pushing the NAO concept, along with consistent combat, less HC overhead- to generate the Big Battle.

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Kilemall
3 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

Something much overlooked.
You can multi crew the 88 (any ATG really), and that commander has a range finder with good binocs.
While the gunner is blasting things, the commander can very accurately spot and mark the incoming targets
so the gunner has only to set range, aim and fire.

If you are trying to take out the 88, use HE
You have to kill the crewmen, and with AP if you miss thier bodies a bit, they will just deploy and fire back.
If you are having to hit it frontally, try and hit the gun body, that way the frags will spray out behind the gun shield wounding the crew.

Bofors are an overlooked rangefinder tool, use them in conjunction with the big ATGs that don't have rangefinding and you can improve their to hit.

 

Or tanks.

 

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