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When Tier 3 comes

23 posts in this topic

We are thinking  when Tier 3 comes and the US come on the map to have this deployment of Divisions 

US = 5

UK = 4

FR = 1 

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6-3-1 would be better IMO.  

 

That's potentially a lot of Sherman Fireflies...

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Why the high amount of US Forces in comparison to French? If anything is should be more or less equal if the French are not out of the fight. 6,3,1 or 0 if the French are defeated and the campaign goes on until the Allies can make a landing in Europe, which would be an interesting idea. 

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Why not alter the make up depending on key towns, to add strategic depth? If Axis own Antwerp, transport is disrupted and the ratio is different to that if Ant were in Allied hands?

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6/3/1 feels more realistic.

To have 5/4/1 would make it a LOT of Fireflies, and considering they are actually better than Tigers in most area that could be something broken.

But, a las. Consider the fact that I am an AXIS player focused on Plane and.... Well Tanks. So I MIGHT be biased a bit on that side! :D

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Lol 4 divisions of brits is 16 fireflies not what I’d call a lot. A lot is 10 divisions worth of tigers with 25 in each division that we used to have. 

I call 250 a lot.

 

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What is the point of having one division of "French" troops?

If the French were defeated as happened historically, there'd be zero "French" divisions the next year/tier.

If the French essentially stopped the Germans' attack and fought on, the French forces would be the same size they started out...unless the theory is that the French soldiers' union requires that members get the rest of the war on paid vacation as soon as the Americans are ready to replace them...?

It'd be closer to realistic to have no "French" troops than one division. Especially with the French having magically transformed into Framericans.

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That history is after 1940, thus is irrelevant to game progress.

In-game, either the French have not been defeated as a nation...in which case, where did all their troops and weapons go?--or they have been defeated, in which case they should all be gone.

Having the French Army mostly disappear, even though the German army is still engaged, makes no historical sense.

Having 10% of Allied divisions fighting in France be French, even though France began the war with the largest army in Europe, is bizarre.

Edited by jwilly

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3 hours ago, jwilly said:

That history is after 1940, thus is irrelevant to game progress.

In-game, either the French have not been defeated as a nation...in which case, where did all their troops and weapons go?--or they have been defeated, in which case they should all be gone.

Having the French Army mostly disappear, even though the German army is still engaged, makes no historical sense.

Having 10% of Allied divisions fighting in France be French, even though France began the war with the largest army in Europe, is bizarre.

What about American involvement during WWI, a continental war where France wasn't defeated immediately?

 

Didn't American units begin to outright replace some of the most beleaguered French and British units on the front?

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23 hours ago, jwilly said:

What is the point of having one division of "French" troops?

If the French were defeated as happened historically, there'd be zero "French" divisions the next year/tier.

If the French essentially stopped the Germans' attack and fought on, the French forces would be the same size they started out...unless the theory is that the French soldiers' union requires that members get the rest of the war on paid vacation as soon as the Americans are ready to replace them...?

It'd be closer to realistic to have no "French" troops than one division. Especially with the French having magically transformed into Framericans.

Ahem.  Even if 'defeated', definitely historical Framericans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Armored_Division_(France)

 

 

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17 hours ago, Capco said:

What about American involvement during WWI, a continental war where France wasn't defeated immediately?

 

Didn't American units begin to outright replace some of the most beleaguered French and British units on the front?

Yes, the US got a chunk of front under Pershing's command.  Small units were committed piecemeal but Pershing resisted that in most cases, corps-level on up were US frontage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_campaigns_in_World_War_I

 

 

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5-4-1 provides diversity of equipment for Alied players / some folks really like to play as French - need to give them options. 

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On 1/16/2019 at 0:27 PM, Kilemall said:

Yes, the US got a chunk of front under Pershing's command.  Small units were committed piecemeal but Pershing resisted that in most cases, corps-level on up were US frontage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_campaigns_in_World_War_I

US forces didn't replace 85% of French involvement and responsibility. US forces were an addition to the Allied force pool, not a replacement for (only) the French.

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That is my problem with doing that. The French (if not defeated/out of the war) would not just go away because American units/forces became available. The French/British forces should remain at the same levels and the Americans should be added, Balanced by the same number of Axis divisions.

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Regardless of WWI Jwilly still has a valid point.

WWII France capitulates largely due to a really bad unstable political environment.
Holland did not capitulate, yes they got driven out of holland, but they did not surrender.
Some of the french did not fall in with the capitulation (the remaining free french forces) but the majority of the government and military leaders did.

That does not happen in game, so you drew a line to Paris? So you got Belgium?
Look at me, i'm still standing, and i got 70% of my territory still, fat lady doesn't sing till you knock me out of the map.

So, it's 1940, Let's say the Axis are on the doorstep to paris, we boot Petain out of HC, we put de Gaulle in.
We pull our forces back, and un-jack the deployments and stop the WWI static defensive mindset.
Get proper armor units instead of piece meal crap, reorganize, stop the damned crippling nonsense going on in R&D and production and then take up the offensive.
(yea yea super simplified)
Now what?
It's kind of where the game takes us.

1943 comes along, the US has complete most operations to the far SE, so they come to the main continent to lend a hand.
Ok, a little help is always good, but if we(France) are not knocked out of the game, why go on vacation?
Does not make sense?

If england's playable area was larger, to support stand alone play, and france got jacked right out of france?
Sure, leave 1 last remaining unit in exile to represent the free french, and let the brits and americans make an attempt to either regain france
or lose england too

But otherwise, why do the french go away?
Gear can not be helped, there is not much beyond part of 41 that anyone in good faith would accept as a realistic and real world tested/testable
unit to introduce into the game, would be total fantasy not alt history.
Ive no idea what this thing would have done really, cant make this stuff here.
dcdb94ae7fd7546f712d22849e44253c--the-ea
The US was willing to sell or lend lease most anything to the allies so that is at least plausible alt history, and the fact that they did kit up
the free french to return to france on D-Day kind of makes it not quite alt history, they still use as much french gear as feasibly possible
and there are a few post tier 0 units they could possibly eek out

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14 hours ago, jwilly said:

US forces didn't replace 85% of French involvement and responsibility. US forces were an addition to the Allied force pool, not a replacement for (only) the French.

So if we're going to follow that logic, how do you add American divisions without removing any French or British divisions while maintaining balance?

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4 minutes ago, Capco said:

So if we're going to follow that logic, how do you add American divisions without removing any French or British divisions while maintaining balance?

add italian brigades or more german

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1 minute ago, madrebel said:

add italian brigades or more german

Chances are 1.36 comes out before Italian brigades are a possibility.  What a shame.  The Axis will probably never have to know what it's like to have brigades in your army that are a clear handicap with a big flag marker differentiating them on the map so the enemy side knows where your weakest link is 24/7.  

 

That of course is besides the main point:  adding divisions markedly changes brigade strategy.  I think it's an excellent idea (to add more divisions over time), but it also runs counter to the current CRS objective of lightening the HC load.  More divisions = more brigades to keep track of and move around.  

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