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Giving more value to the riflman: open brainstorming

140 posts in this topic

I would like to launch an open brainstorming about the rifleman.

Rifleman is the most used unit in game and is the only unit played by free reservists. Their experience of the game is therefore limited to what that unit can play.

Many feedbacks mention how limited it appear to be compared to other infantries, and therefore provide an immediate impression of a pay2win game.

How could that unit be valued more within the game? What game play changes could  we make to give it a more influencing/determinant role regarding other infantry units and the victory conditions?

You can think about anythink you want, change any game play rule, as long as you detail the (new) role of riflemen in your design and explain the expected consequences.

Note that they were already given an ammo can, a sachel charge and new PPOs to interact more with other units.

Thanks!

 

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Maybe offer an new F2P infantry type called Scout Infantryman - runs faster, longer stamina, 1 HEAT satchel, 1 HE satchel, bridge/AI repair kit, rifle, knife, ammo, binos.......

something like that or a variation of other added stuff.....like a jack of all trades.

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tone down the sway

stay aimed down the sight while rechambering

give em CQB capability, a pistol or bayonet

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1 hour ago, bmw said:

Maybe offer an new F2P infantry type called Scout Infantryman - runs faster, longer stamina, 1 HEAT satchel, 1 HE satchel, bridge/AI repair kit, rifle, knife, ammo, binos.......

something like that or a variation of other added stuff.....like a jack of all trades.

gadget.jpg

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So Back to FTP killing any armor tanks!!!

SWEET

This idea wont last

S!

LIES

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50 minutes ago, major0noob said:

tone down the sway

stay aimed down the sight while rechambering

give em CQB capability, a pistol or bayonet

I vote we move down this path. Sway has never felt good to me, one of those rl things that just doesnt feel right. 

Bayonet and aimed while cycling bolt would both be nice, bayonet may be faster to impliment?

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One of the things that steam reviews mention the most is how free players and riflemen are incapable of any anti-tank capability.

Like in real life(WW2) sometimes as a normal rifleman, you could end up with an extra anti-tank grenade or panzerfaust.

 

So I think you should have a random value that you could spawn with a HEAT satchel or in the future a panzerfaust and maybe bring back the UK HEAT rifle grenade as a counterpart to the panzerfaust.. anti-tank grenades like the sticky bomb or the german H3 magnetic mine etc..

Edited by pbveteran

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Can you fix the Aim Down sights so it's not zooming in so much? How about a small zoom, then a more zoomed in zoom when you press shift like other games. It's nauseating zooming every time you ADS.
Also UP the PPO rate, like timer should be half of what they are so PPO's are used more. Bayonet, and an AT satchel would help.

Edited by knucks

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Don't make every rifleman a tank killer.

1. Wildly unrealistic...no country had personal HEAT devices in 1940-41 that would kill any tank.

2. Would kill the armor game.

3. Would dramatically move gameplay toward World War One Online, with weak offense and strong defense.

4. Would bring back the worst game feature ever, Rambo Infantry running around the countryside, and therefore undercut any tiny bit of remaining interest in small-unit gameplay.

 

Instead make infantry less lethal toward tanks and make it harder for tanks to spot hiding infantry. Infantry should fight infantry for captures. Armor should fight other armor for chances to cut the other side's supply lines.

Edited by jwilly
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8 hours ago, bmw said:

runs faster, longer stamina,

like a jack of all trades.

Anything else we can do to move the game toward the mass market fantasy shooters? How about bunny hopping...you didn't mention that. And maybe jet packs. Oh, yeah, and health pills. Gotta have health pills.

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Take 10 f2p riflemen
teach them how to actually play as rifle corps
teach them to think move communicate and play as a unit, as a team

Have them master than

Then try to stop them
 

2 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Oh, yeah, and health pills. Gotta have health pills.

Amphetamines and meth for the axis ;)

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Just now, Merlin51 said:

Take 10 f2p riflemen
teach them how to actually play as rifle corps
teach them to think move communicate and play as a unit, as a team

Have them master than

Then try to stop them
 

1 Anti infantry vehicle later..... 

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This is supposed to be a small-unit-action game, but everyone wants to add Rambo features.

Instead strengthen the small unit action. Add morale dings, no map access, and no cap capability for being too far from your platoon/mission group. Add morale bumps for unit proximity. Add an implied medic capability for platoons/mission groups...greater odds of getting a Rescued instead of a KIA if injured to a despawn level outside of normal Rescued range.

Eliminate the ammo-carry for HEAT manpats...loading requires an ammo pack.

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6 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

Amphetamines and meth for the axis ;)

And the SAS, and American paratroops, and the FFL.

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What if the riflemen were to get a HEAT Satchel OR Zook/shrek... However with 1 KEY Difference...they start with 0 AMMO.........

Ammo for that could only be obtained a certain way (maybe from the AMMO Bearer class person) .. 

So it is not EVERY infantryman.... it is not available all the time everywhere.. HOWEVER ... for F2P / Rifleman.. there is a WAY through TEAMWORK to couple with a veteran Hero builder or someone who has the Ammo bearer DLC to obtain a REAR commodity to kill a tank..

my 2 cents..

 

 

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Just now, jwilly said:

This is supposed to be a small-unit-action game, but everyone wants to add Rambo features.

It's combined arms, a single tank or bombing run annihilates infantry very quickly. You can't just give vehicles free reign over the battle field, having ability to mow down infantry without infantry being able to fight back. I agree infantry need to act more like infantry, but this aint it.

Edited by knucks

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10 hours ago, goreblimey said:

Give them a bayonet

Yes, but not just the FPAs. Remove the knife, and replace it with bayonet gameplay. Knife gameplay has always had terrible movement-dynamics. Maybe bayonet gameplay would look better.

But, no movement indoors with a fixed bayonet. It's bad enough seeing just the ordinary rifle cutting into walls while running down hallways. A collider-less bayonet would be worse.

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2 minutes ago, knucks said:

It's combined arms, a single tank or bombing run annihilates infantry very quickly. You can't just give vehicles free reign over the battle field, having ability to mow down infantry without infantry being able to fight back. I agree infantry need to act more like infantry, but this aint it.

So you want to make individual infantrymen able to fight tanks on equal terms?

What's next, infantry that can take on bombers on equal terms?

Definitely heading in a realistic-gameplay direction.

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53 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

One of the things that steam reviews mention the most is how free players and riflemen are incapable of any anti-tank capability.

Like in real life(WW2) sometimes as a normal rifleman, you could end up with an extra anti-tank grenade or panzerfaust.

 

So I think you should have a random value that you could spawn with a HEAT satchel or in the future a panzerfaust and maybe bring back the UK HEAT rifle grenade as a counterpart to the panzerfaust.. anti-tank grenades like the sticky bomb or the german H3 magnetic mine etc..

Look I don't mind that free play guys are in and capping, providing game value/content and what not, but I'm not interested in subsidizing the killing of PAYING tank guys when it's hard enough to operate as is.

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37 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Don't make every rifleman a tank killer.

....

4. Would bring back the worst game feature ever, Rambo Infantry running around the countryside, and therefore undercut any tiny bit of remaining interest in small-unit gameplay.

Instead make infantry less lethal toward tanks and make it harder for tanks to spot hiding infantry. Infantry should fight infantry for captures. Armor should fight other armor for chances to cut the other side's supply lines.

Exactly right. Everyone is thinking about this upside down. Its not that tanks are too lethal for infantry. They should be. That is why tanks were designed in the first place.

The issue is that we need better concealment for infantry. Right now we have the unfortunate situation where the vegetation in WWIIOL is exactly opposite of what it should be. Hedges are too tall (tanks can't see across them to engage other tanks at range), and grass is either too short or non-existant meaning infantry have nowhere to hide. The new cornfields and grass are a step in the right direction but overall I think we need an overhaul of the WWIIOL terrain to really solve this issue.

The rifle right now is an excellent unit and one of my favorite to fight with. It is the most versatile and if I hit anyone I know they are going down. The way to make the rifle more relevant is to give infantry the advantages they had in real life... cover and concealment. When have already done much with PPOs and improvement in cover. For example those small low white walls in the country and ingenious and one of the best additions to the infantry game.

We need more of those types of objects that infantry can pop behind. At the same time decrease the height of the bushes so tanks and ATGs have a chance to engage each other at range. Towns right now are surrounded by a jungle so enemy tanks can pretty much spawn with impunity to suppress infantry with little worry of being engaged by armor outside of town.

 

Example of what I mean: tallish grass to allow infantry to hide, but not tall enough where other tanks and ATGs can't attack/see the enemy tanks. Right now we have it backwards, 2m tall bushes tanks and ATGs can't see over and minimal ground cover for infantry to hide in.

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489ca219174f91b48313c188f4c998a5413fcaf1

Les+canards+(2).JPG

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4 minutes ago, jwilly said:

So you want to make individual infantrymen able to fight tanks on equal terms?

What's next, infantry that can take on bombers on equal terms?

Definitely heading in a realistic-gameplay direction.

Rocket packs.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

Look I don't mind that free play guys are in and capping, providing game value/content and what not, but I'm not interested in subsidizing the killing of PAYING tank guys when it's hard enough to operate as is.

100% agree. Have to always think about the unintended consequences of anything and how in reality players will use the weapon.

In theory you will have F2P with token AT-capability working together in small infantry squads.

In reality everyone is going to channel their inner Audy Murphy and go on a rambo roll trying to sap tanks.

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Teach the riflemen to move as a unit, and the problem is solved.  The problem isn't weak rifles, although toning the sway down a bit would be nice.  The problem is solo riflemen, which should not work well, and doesn't.

 

Rifles can already build a bunch of PPOs, and other than blowing EMFS are basically engineer-capable.

 

Maybe give higher-ranked riflemen a pistol as well.

 

Don't make them into jack of all trades folks, please.  Armor should dominate riflemen.

 

I do like the idea of a scout class...

 

S!

Edited by augetout

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