mingus

64 bit and you soldier!

104 posts in this topic

I'm sure this will be deleted within a half hour but if it is not, I have a question for the higher up Rats.    have you discovered that the game cannot actually be brought up to 64 bit and are just trying to run with 32 as long as you can?  This is the rumor that is starting to spread.      Guys are bashing your damage models and everything else, but it probably has nothing to do with damage models. the ancient 32 bit stuff just isnt cutting the mustard anymore.  So often frustrating things happen in game, like rounds not killing, or going through enemy or a host of other things and guys blame the damage models, lag etc,,. Is it more probably that the game just can't see three quarters of the rounds being on target? And thats probably just the tip of the ice berg.     So can we get a respectable reply on how the 64 bit deal is coming along? or are you just smoke and mirroring it because its a damn mess and you dont even know if its possible?  Rat gods? There should be not one GD thing higher on the priority list than getting 64 bit going. no repaints, or reselling us more old stuff with new loadouts, ( did i mention we dont need any more repaints?)  64 bit or doomsday.

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So the artists and guys doing the modelling should switch over to 64 bit development?

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Posts generally tend to last if they're at least polite, and worded at something above the level of a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum.

To your question:

20 minutes ago, mingus said:

have you discovered that the game cannot actually be brought up to 64 bit and are just trying to run with 32 as long as you can?  This is the rumor that is starting to spread.

Don't believe the rumors - 64 bit work is still ongoing... However it does entail re-writing literally nearly every major game function.  It's not something that can be done simply by changing 32 to 64.  

We have several different work streams within CRS, Artists and Modelers generally aren't coders (or at least not c++ and other languages)...  it makes absolutely no sense to stop work/updates on one aspect of the game while waiting on the other. 

I mean we could.. no new models, .36 stopped, server/network fixes/updates/optimizations not made, no more new terrain (or fixes of) while those with the knowledge and experience work solely on the 1 item (outside of web development I can barely program a calculator).......... not the best from a developmental perspective though. 

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Ok, i will stop any work on terrain, be it new or bug fixes, no gun sights, no small simple art things my poor skills can help with
and what ever other things i am able to help a tiny amount with, and i will head over to Dev and begin helping with 64bit

Now keep in mind, my programming prowess is limited to basica, and maybe some logo from 1978
and i dont know diddly do about c++, which will probably frustrate those guy to no end, and set them back about 5000 years
but, ok, i'm game

:)

PS Is not good to listen to rumors pandered about discord by those who do not even know who works on what, let alone what they can or can not do

Edited by Merlin51
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Just now, nily said:

Rumor is Mingus taking whole Axis side to Sizzler if we win

S! 

LIES

Those still exsist?

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4 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:


Now keep in mind, my programming prowess is limited to basica, and maybe some logo from 1978
and i dont know diddly do about c++, which will probably frustrate those guy to no end, and set them back about 5000 years
but, ok, i'm game
 

Ah... good old basic. Fortran too (and it's still going). Fortunately way back I didn't drop my stack of cards on the way to the computer room. lol.

64bit....is a coming.

:)

S!

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Ah... good old basic. Fortran too (and it's still going). Fortunately way back I didn't drop my stack of cards on the way to the computer room. lol.

64bit....is a coming.

:)

S!

 

 

Pascal FTW :P 

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11 hours ago, mingus said:

Guys are bashing your damage models and everything else, but it probably has nothing to do with damage models. the ancient 32 bit stuff just isnt cutting the mustard anymore.  So often frustrating things happen in game, like rounds not killing, or going through enemy or a host of other things and guys blame the damage models, lag etc,,. Is it more probably that the game just can't see three quarters of the rounds being on target? And thats probably just the tip of the ice berg.

Nothing of what you just said... errrr nothing of the above has anything to do with the game being 64bit or not. Most of the problems can be attributed to the ancient (in computer time) design of the game engine and to network problems.

True, with the change to 64bit the game can use more memory but more importantly the overhaul will perhaps be the end of the single threaded game engine. Currently all of the engine logic/work is run in one big loop. That's why some calculations (damage model HE comes to mind) had to be simplified. Otherwise there simply wouldn't have been enough time for important stuff like graphics output.

Considering the lack of documentation, the vastly differing coding styles and the age of the source code it will be nothing short of a masterpiece if the engine can be upgraded to 64bit. Multithread (multiple independent game loops) would be the cherry on top.

So give the guys a break. ;)

Edited by rote7
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Could probably send a hundred bucks to a smart 13 year old kid in India to rewrite the entire code in a week. The ones that make apps and stuff out of boredem lol

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34 minutes ago, dfire said:

Could probably send a hundred bucks to a smart 13 year old kid in India to rewrite the entire code in a week. The ones that make apps and stuff out of boredem lol

Somehow i doubt it, but if you want to try, email xoom

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7 hours ago, dfire said:

Could probably send a hundred bucks to a smart 13 year old kid in India to rewrite the entire code in a week. The ones that make apps and stuff out of boredem lol

I'm sure the quality control of that will be fantastic!

 

FWIW Rickb back in the day shared a snippet of code from the engine. Long story short it was a infinite closed loop where on one line it said, if this then = 0, then the very next line it said if = 0 return to preceding line.

Below was a coder comment "I know it doesn't make sense but dont touch it because somehow it works!" (My rough paraphrase from memory).

That is the stuff you have to deal with!

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7 hours ago, dfire said:

Could probably send a hundred bucks to a smart 13 year old kid in India to rewrite the entire code in a week. The ones that make apps and stuff out of boredem lol

Actually - you'd probably be surprised where some of our coders 'day jobs' are currently and where they have been in the past. 

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I find it amusing how this thread is a perfect example of proper and absolutely useless, sarcastic set of answers from different members of the CRS team. 


Thanks B2K for the post. You are doing a fine job. S! 

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52 minutes ago, gretnine said:

I find it amusing how this thread is a perfect example of proper and absolutely useless, sarcastic set of answers from different members of the CRS team. 

Well had OP actually write a thoughtful and constructive post rather than a sarcastic set of question you would have gotten a different reply.

I've never had the issue you speak of. Be nice and amazingly people will be happy to explain things. S!

 

Edited by aismov

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10 hours ago, dfire said:

Could probably send a hundred bucks to a smart 13 year old kid in India to rewrite the entire code in a week. The ones that make apps and stuff out of boredem lol

@zippy?

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17 hours ago, dfire said:

Could probably send a hundred bucks to a smart 13 year old kid in India to rewrite the entire code in a week. The ones that make apps and stuff out of boredem lol

I'm failing to see how a Calculator app compares to 1 million+ lines of code that it takes to run this game...?

Everyone assumes that the code that runs this game is super basic and anyone that knows how to "code" can come in here and "fix it up" in a week. If only you knew...

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Where do these BS rumors come from? Do people just make things up and then toss them at the side channel and hope people think that's the truth and then they go run with it or what?

As b2k broke down...going from 32bit to 64bit is not an easy task and not anyone who knows C++ can come in and convert everything over to 64bit. There are many areas of the code that fundamentally change and thus require more changes on top of them in order to accommodate the new code. Many things are tied together and don't allow for changing of a massive portion of the code without effecting other parts of the code.

Do know the 64bit upgrade is still happening but also know that there are many other aspects to the game, many that players do not see, that need constant attention. Some of those things are critical to keeping this game going and while those are being taken care of, 64bit cannot be worked on at the same time.

Also know, we are VOLUNTEERS...meaning we do not get full/part time pay, we have other full time jobs, we do not work on the game 8 hours a day, we have families, we have a life that is not WWIIOL and we also want to play the game as well.

There is not a single aspect to this game that is simple or easy to deal with. Everything from websites, graphics, 3D models, vehicle data, databases, billing service, servers, networks, marketing, community relations and the actual codebase. None of it is simple nor easy to manipulate, update or fix. There are multiple teams of multiple people that deal with these different aspects of keeping this game going and helping it to get better, so do not clump all of it together as if it were only a single person working on everything because that's not how things work.

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If you google "converting a 32 bit program to 64 bit"
You wont find a magic bullet, but you will find a lot of information and discussion of it
and if you go through the reputable sources, you will come away with the knowledge that it is quite difficult.
It is time consuming and there is a large amount of work involved, especially if it is a complex program.

Even if you know nothing of programming, you will still walk away with the knowledge that it is not something even a code guru
would just walk in to something like this games code and churn out over night.

It would be nice if there was a tool that just ran through your code and picked up every single tidbit that would reference ILP32LL
and magically change it in the proper fashion to use LLP64 and then correctly redo the rest of the related code accordingly, but there is not.
It has to all be done by hand, by someone that understands what the code is attempting to do, and there is lots of testing and errors and correcting
and retesting, and rewriting along the way.

Our guys who are working on that, they know exactly what they are doing, it just simply is no sort of cut and dried automated process
and if they run into anything not done well in the existing, they have to stop and fix that before they can continue.

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On 1/20/2019 at 10:27 AM, B2K said:

Actually - you'd probably be surprised where some of our coders 'day jobs' are currently and where they have been in the past. 

Secret agents? Mercenaries? International men of mystery?

SECRET AGENTS??

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It's a rewrite of the entire code. Take one big machine that does everything and split that work up into 4 machines, in a way that still communicates with the 1st. [censored] takes time.

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On 1/20/2019 at 0:10 PM, gretnine said:

I find it amusing how this thread is a perfect example of proper and absolutely useless, sarcastic set of answers from different members of the CRS team. 


Thanks B2K for the post. You are doing a fine job. S! 

Keep in mind that most of the CRS team is made up of volunteers who play the game also.

These volunteers put in hours of their own time, working feverishly to make the game better for the players.

It can become disheartening, constantly being criticised when in fact everyone wants the game to move forward and be a success.

Almost everyone i say.

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