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BMBM

Your idea of Fun

281 posts in this topic

Fun? For me, an epic 45min firefight with bombs falling everywhere, tracers flying, and kills mounting.

My favorite WW2OL moment was the time a huge battery of 88s, PAKs, and Stugs parked on the south hill of Haybes and bombarded the living hell out of the AB. A bombing mission was put together, eight Havocs roared in from the north 10min later, and dumped sixty or seventy bombs onto the hilltop, destroying most of the enemy guns and stopping the shellfire.

It was an amazing moment because I knew that it wasn't scripted, wasn't pre-programmed. Everything was made by human effort and time. Pure magic.

Edited by rodsantos

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LOL !

Even when a person asks for the positives a player has for the game. i.e..... "what's the honey in this game for you?"

Others just can't restrain themselves and have to add some "[censored] and vinegar". Stay on topic !!!

:)

Anyway...fun for me:

Blowing up bridges with many ET's on them. Especially if there is enemy air around that doesn't get me first. Now that's fun!!!!

:)

S!

 

 

2 minutes ago, rodsantos said:

Fun? For me, an epic 45min firefight with bombs falling everywhere, tracers flying, and kills mounting.

My favorite WW2OL moment was the time a huge battery of 88s, PAKs, and Stugs parked on the south hill of Haybes and bombarded the living hell out of the AB. A bombing mission was put together, eight Havocs roared in from the north 10min later, and dumped sixty or seventy bombs onto the hilltop, destroying most of the enemy guns and stopping the shellfire.

It was an amazing moment because I knew that it wasn't scripted, wasn't pre-programmed. Everything was made by human effort and time. Pure magic.

Yup! My kind of fun though I can never seem to do it in the old HE 111.

S!

 

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Whenever population rises to near 3 AOs.  Something magical happens. 

Edited by forrest
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2 hours ago, Elfin said:

LOL !

Even when a person asks for the positives a player has for the game. i.e..... "what's the honey in this game for you?"

Others just can't restrain themselves and have to add some "[censored] and vinegar". Stay on topic !!!

:)

Anyway...fun for me:

Blowing up bridges with many ET's on them. Especially if there is enemy air around that doesn't get me first. Now that's fun!!!!

:)

S!

 

 

Yup! My kind of fun though I can never seem to do it in the old HE 111.

S!

 

It's hard not to do that when the positive you're trying to highlight was removed from the game.

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3 hours ago, rodsantos said:

Fun? For me, an epic 45min firefight with bombs falling everywhere, tracers flying, and kills mounting.

My favorite WW2OL moment was the time a huge battery of 88s, PAKs, and Stugs parked on the south hill of Haybes and bombarded the living hell out of the AB. A bombing mission was put together, eight Havocs roared in from the north 10min later, and dumped sixty or seventy bombs onto the hilltop, destroying most of the enemy guns and stopping the shellfire.

It was an amazing moment because I knew that it wasn't scripted, wasn't pre-programmed. Everything was made by human effort and time. Pure magic.

The old 31st roost on the S hill.

We have a Builder Memorial on that hilltop actually because of all the time we spent up there :)

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I like battles that involve land-air-sea with high-pop. There have been some epic battles in vliss, walsoorden, Willemstad, Oostende, Dunkirk, BOZ, etc.

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Not want to sound pretentious but I think this kind of questions should be asked to people who played the game and are not playing anymore or played before the 2005 version.

'Preaching to the choir' will always get the same answers.

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Fun?  It would be fun to be able to spawn a panzer, any panzer, on most AOs or DOs.

It was fun when tankers had other tanks to fight.

It was fun when both sides spawned in, and we had 2 AOs constantly in Euro and US primetime - and as Forrest said, 3 AOs on weekend nights... lol that was only a month ago.

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My idea of fun? Rtb'ng with some sort of accomplishment achieved. Not necessary kills but happy with OP duty, overwatch, etc. Must admit I like to blow up an efms now and then. I may not be much of a "talker" online, but I sort of find it ok to be a part of this peculiar community.

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14 hours ago, minky said:

It's hard not to do that when the positive you're trying to highlight was removed from the game.

Hey Bruther!!

We love you

:)

And your criticisms are thought out and insightful when i read them.

But this is the honey page :D

Just a bit of honey, sweet syrupy honey

:D

S! 

ps...let me know when the crew is regularly playing those other venues in a concerted way.....I always have to reboot my Mac into Windows native mode to play those windows only games.

(yes...Mac's do that... two systems in one...whooooo !)

 

 

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My idea of fun is getting a bunch of players grouped up and going on a mission together. Whether that be a paratrooper drop, tank column, bombing raid, fighter patrol, that's when I see the game at its best; when people are motivated to work as a team and you feel the weight of the pain you're about to bring onto the other side :).

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5 hours ago, ian77 said:

Fun?  It would be fun to be able to spawn a panzer, any panzer, on most AOs or DOs.

It was fun when tankers had other tanks to fight.

It was fun when both sides spawned in, and we had 2 AOs constantly in Euro and US primetime - and as Forrest said, 3 AOs on weekend nights... lol that was only a month ago.

i agree..

 

2 hours ago, XOOM said:

My idea of fun is getting a bunch of players grouped up and going on a mission together. Whether that be a paratrooper drop, tank column, bombing raid, fighter patrol, that's when I see the game at its best; when people are motivated to work as a team and you feel the weight of the pain you're about to bring onto the other side :).

tank column  ?  only allied side no axis...

lol

S!

  

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I count 52 AFVs (232 and 251 not included) in the German armored brigade in tier 1. 64 AFVs in tier 2. 71 AFV in tier 3. 

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42 minutes ago, Bmbm said:

I count 52 AFVs (232 and 251 not included) in the German armored brigade in tier 1. 64 AFVs in tier 2. 71 AFV in tier 3. 

Ian77 really highlights the problem with this better than anyone else. 

8 hours ago, ian77 said:

Wouldnt know, they are not usually in the DO, and if an armoured flag is moved to the DO then the DO moves.... always presuming the 15 allied players are able to support their AO in the first place. You should jump in game and enjoy the complete lack of tanking.

Changes in this game are often made without taking into consideration all of the other dynamics at play. Remember, where players can exploit the system to their advantage, players will exploit the system to their advantage. That’s not the fault of the players either as they are just playing to win. 

Let’s look closely at what Ian77 is saying above. It’s a flaw no one is really talking about right now a whole lot but he’s nailed it. Let me give you an example. Right now the brigade numbers are no big deal for the Axis. The Axis clearly have the player numbers and are on the offensive. That’s where those armored brigades are positioned. For offensive operations. What happens when the numbers inevitably flop to the other side and the Axis are on the defensive?  Now Axis HC gets to deal with the movement timers constantly while trying to support DOs with armor. If I’m Allied HC I want to AO a target and get the enemy to commit the armored brigade. If they do I want to immediately dump the AO and hit elsewhere on that division since the Armor flag is on a cool down timer for movement. If they fail to move the armor in I just keep hitting the initial target until the armor does move in.  I use my numbers and tank advantage in inf brigades in addition to forcing a defense comprised solely of ATGs and sappers. If I’m Axis defense becomes a frustrating exercise where I can never effectively use my armor because of the game’s other movement timer rules. 

For people that like to drive tanks they are now forced to physically move armor from wherever the armored brigade is to the town under attack. 

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Again, we can't design the lists for fluctuating population or population imbalances. Other levers in the machinery takes care of that, however imperfectly. 

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Your not seeing the significance of this. And for all I know the French fall into this trap too by the way. I!haven’t seen much about their armor in Inf flags. Anyway, you can conceivably have a situation where one side can’t effectively use their armor because of game rules. Your going to give the underpopulated side even less incentive to log in. Is that really what you were going for?

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1 hour ago, Bmbm said:

Again, we can't design the lists for fluctuating population or population imbalances. Other levers in the machinery takes care of that, however imperfectly. 

By the way, your reaction to what I just said cuts right to the heart of your original post. Fun. Nobody that I’ve talked to finds logging in simply to be a pop up target for the other side fun. They just don’t. If there is a sense that is their fate they log out or just don’t log in. If that goes on log enough they never log back in. 

People don’t mind losing.  They just want to feel as though they had a good fight in the process. The real question is what are the ways you can make the game fun for the under pop side?

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8 hours ago, minky said:

The Axis clearly have the player numbers and are on the offensive. That’s where those armored brigades are positioned. For offensive operations.

And in the same post:

8 hours ago, minky said:

For people that like to drive tanks they are now forced to physically move armor from wherever the armored brigade is to the town under attack. 

You see the paradox there?

There's armor, plenty of armor available. Not just everywhere, all the time, in near-infinite numbers. Where there's little or no armor, players will have to use other assets - sappers, guns, bombs, smoke, PPOs, teamwork - to deal with the enemy. Low availability means precious, means don't use it with abandon, means protect it with prudence and teamplay.

And yes, driving from neighboring towns, either singly or en masse, is something that players have asked for both from the offensive and the defensive perspective. They are now getting what they asked for.

7 hours ago, minky said:

logging in simply to be a pop up target for the other side fun

My personal solution is to avoid such situations by simply not spawning in camped/hotly contested areas. YOU the player decide where to spawn, it doesn't have to be in the bullseye unless you have a craving for suicidal instant action. It is possible albeit time-sensitive to get ahead of attacks, indeed that's the only way an underpop'd side can make their low numbers count. 

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[Side winning always happy (fun)] + [Side losing always unhappy (not fun)] = Normal Situation (since 2001)

[Side losing gripes about this or that] + [Side winning offers counter arguments] = Normal Situation (since 2001)

CRS is always listening to the above and making adjustments as it deems appropriate. Rinse and Repeat...

Most, if not all, campaigns are won mainly by the side with consistent player numbers in its favor and thus better overall player morale. I will not go into all the factors that affect those numbers as they have been discussed ad nauseum.

Yesterday Ath was an Allied attack objective. I had a short period of time I could play so logged in Axis (iTacc, my Steam account). I found Ath had light ei ews. I go to Ath and see two other Axis out in the field, none in town. I check the CP that would allow Allies to spawn if capped. I am killed inside the CP. I sound the alarm to the other two just outside of town. They do not move. Go back to the CP and get killed again. CP is capped by Allied and very quickly another CP is capped, and another. I sound a 911 alarm on the Side channel that if Ath does not get immediate help, Axis will lose it. I run to AB bunker and get killed again. Run back, get killed on the way. Clearly a small group of Allied players have planned this attack well, infiltrated the town with several players but not enough to trigger a high ews warning and are very close to taking the town. In all I think I was killed 5 of 6 times in very short order without killing a single Allied player. Not a fun experience for me. I had to log shortly thereafter. Later that evening I check the webmap and see that Ath is still Axis. Despite not having a 'fun' experience I am happy that Ath remained Axis and that I might have had a part in that successful defense.

Axis and Allied have both been on the losing side numerous times throughout the long history of this game. Is it ever really fun when losing a campaign, despite how successful you are as a single player? Probably not. Can CRS make it so the losing side is having an overall fun experience while losing? Probably not. Can CRS turn WW2 Online into WW1 Online through modified game mechanics? Surely they could and both sides would be unhappy and the whole game experience for everyone will be not fun. 

Is it so hard to accept that losing is rarely, if ever, fun and that both sides are gonna win some campaigns and lose some campaigns?

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9 hours ago, Bmbm said:

And in the same post:

You see the paradox there?

There's armor, plenty of armor available. Not just everywhere, all the time, in near-infinite numbers. Where there's little or no armor, players will have to use other assets - sappers, guns, bombs, smoke, PPOs, teamwork - to deal with the enemy. Low availability means precious, means don't use it with abandon, means protect it with prudence and teamplay.

And yes, driving from neighboring towns, either singly or en masse, is something that players have asked for both from the offensive and the defensive perspective. They are now getting what they asked for.

My personal solution is to avoid such situations by simply not spawning in camped/hotly contested areas. YOU the player decide where to spawn, it doesn't have to be in the bullseye unless you have a craving for suicidal instant action. It is possible albeit time-sensitive to get ahead of attacks, indeed that's the only way an underpop'd side can make their low numbers count. 

There is nothing contradictory at all in what I said. You literally took out the most important parts of the post where I explained the problem. There is a huge difference in how this thing will play on offense and defense. I explained why, or rather, Ian77 did.  

I’m glad that your personal solution is to avoid defending towns that are under serious attack.  However, if everyone played like that you wouldn’t have much of a game at all considering the dynamics of how this game plays out.

In the end though it doesn’t really matter to me. I’m not the one who has to suffer the consequences. For that matter neither do you. XOOM is the only one who really gets to feel the pain and is the one left holding the bag.  I guess fund raiser time is right around the corner anyway. 

Edited by minky

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Neat story tac1. I think most people can relate to it. Myself, I so suck at CQB that I rarely even try - in your example I would have looked for a kill spot rather than trying to save the town to save myself some grief. IMO the emotional value people attach to single towns is a major source of both the frustration and the joy one might feel, as you so well described. 

When we expand the map, towns will lose a little bit of the significance they now hold. With more terrain to fight over, local losses can hopefully be borne with greater equanimity - and more joy found in the battle per se, not just the win/lose of towns or even depots.

10 minutes ago, minky said:

suffer the consequences.

In game numbers have been good (normal) according to my sources. So no major consequences are being felt at this juncture. Sure, some people are shall we say disgruntled but I think if we all let this sink in a bit, and allow some gentle tweaking, maybe the concept can be viewed more fairly. As it is, players are accustomed to a game history and play style/expectation going back to 2001 (more or less) whereas this paradigm shift is barely two weeks old. 

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9 hours ago, Bmbm said:

And yes, driving from neighboring towns, either singly or en masse, is something that players have asked for both from the offensive and the defensive perspective. They are now getting what they asked for.

What we have now in that sense is basically 1.36-lite.  

 

People asked to give importance to backline reinforcements and interdiction, and now that we have that in-game with the way the armored brigades are structured, those same people cry foul because they can't get the toy they want right away.  Now that aircraft is divvied up between bomber and fighter brigades, people are mad when they have to fly from an airfield that is farther away in order to get the airplane they want.  People love to talk down the old system until the benefits of that system are taken out from under them.  How ironic.  

 

It's like some of us have a crystal ball sometimes and could see this eventual level of disgruntlement from a mile away.  

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6 minutes ago, Capco said:

People asked to give importance to backline reinforcements and interdiction, and now that we have that in-game with the way the armored brigades are structured, those same people cry foul because they can't get the toy they want right away.  Now that aircraft is divvied up between bomber and fighter brigades, people are mad when they have to fly from an airfield that is farther away in order to get the airplane they want.  People love to talk down the old system until the benefits of that system are taken out from under them.  How ironic.  

 

It's like some of us have a crystal ball sometimes and could see this eventual level of disgruntlement from a mile away.  

a lot of the existing playerbase have never played 'the old way'. you'll have to allow for some adjustment here. once people experience the fun of interdicting or the 'stress' of driving from a rear line town scanning the entire time for interdiction threats, perhaps even get into real scraps away from the main fight I think they'll 'get it'. i really miss the fight you had to get through to get to the main fight.

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3 minutes ago, madrebel said:

a lot of the existing playerbase have never played 'the old way'. you'll have to allow for some adjustment here. once people experience the fun of interdicting or the 'stress' of driving from a rear line town scanning the entire time for interdiction threats, perhaps even get into real scraps away from the main fight I think they'll 'get it'. i really miss the fight you had to get through to get to the main fight.

The thing is, 5-10 guys going off on their own to get a tank column for resupply for an hour wasn't a big hit to the overall presence of a side at the actual battle sites in 2004.  

 

Today, one side simply cannot afford to have 5-10 guys going off doing their own thing when that represents 25-50% of the soldiers available for AOs or DOs.  If you have 5-10 guys on your side that are not directly involved at your AOs and DOs for an hour while the other side does, you could lose 3-4 towns just in that one hour despite being at balanced pop.  The only time it will be feasible is when one side has consistently high overpop, and in that case the outcome of those battles is already determined anyway.  

 

Like so many other things in this game, it doesn't work well (or at all) without enough bodies.  

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