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      Hells Gate   03/24/2019

      Break through the lines, and enter Hells Gate!!! This will be the next CRS organized event.  Lead by the High command from each side.
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      Date: 3/30/19 Time: 11:00 AM Server time/ 12:00pm EST/ 1600 GMT
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Your idea of Fun

281 posts in this topic

Don't really see the need for medics- you get shot and  slow down until you remove yourself from combat- just like real life --  a bullet wound  is not patched up in minutes then you go back to the fight - you are evacuated, which is done by de-spawning.  What's next, power pills to give super human strength?

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2 minutes ago, blakeh said:

Don't really see the need for medics- you get shot and  slow down until you remove yourself from combat- just like real life --  a bullet wound  is not patched up in minutes then you go back to the fight - you are evacuated, which is done by de-spawning.  What's next, power pills to give super human strength?

No medic, no game. I cite the same argument for repairing AI around town. Now tell me, what's the point of a damage model if getting shot in the leg puts you out of combat?

Edited by knucks

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6 minutes ago, knucks said:

Ahaha, no way. You have to be joking, pass this game along to someone who can do it, people love the medic class in video games, a guy laying their bleeding out, that you could potentially save and you walk right past him? Talk about a missed opportunity

If in fact the unit was bleeding out, which indicates a seriously wounded player, then having a medic staunch the unit so that it doesn't die is fine (perhaps despawning as rescue or rtb). Having that "healed" unit become fully functional and up and running and gunning because of a few "bandages" or "magic elixir" is not fine. 

Perhaps CRS could find a balance....between how seriously wounded and what the aid would reasonably allow a wounded unit to do.

It might be too hard to code...I have no idea on that.

 

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2 minutes ago, knucks said:

No medic, no game. I cite the same argument for repairing AI around town.

:)

Well pony up some cash and sub..then the likely hood increases for new development

;)

"make it so"

:)

S! 

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typically support classes - specifically healers, are among the least played. show me ww2 shooters that have medics. if you can't do that, show us other games where support role play exceeds direct damage roles. now, in games where there are healthy support roles tell me, are these direct supporting roles or do the classes spend most of their time running back and forth - doing nothing?

medic has no chance in this game unless the population massively rebounds and other significantly more important features are delivered.

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3 minutes ago, madrebel said:

typically support classes - specifically healers, are among the least played. show me ww2 shooters that have medics. if you can't do that, show us other games where support role play exceeds direct damage roles. now, in games where there are healthy support roles tell me, are these direct supporting roles or do the classes spend most of their time running back and forth?

I cite the 2nd MMOFPS in existence, Planetside for both engineer and medic roles.
I also pull my Post Scriptum/Squad AND Arma card, to rightfully show you medics belong in a war game.

Edited by knucks

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6 minutes ago, knucks said:

I cite the 2nd MMOFPS in existence, Planetside for both engineer and medic roles.
I also pull my Post Scriptum/Squad AND Arma card, to rightfully show you medics belong in a war game.

so, a fantasy shooter where almost nobody played medic - oh and the medic was an active shooter armed with automatic rifles, smgs, or shotguns. also armed with 'medical-applicators' and a nano regen ability ... k

combined PS/Squad, and arma don't represent enough market potential to spend very limited development resources. we need players, among those already small communities, how many are dedicated 'medics'? go on, do the research or at least guess.

nobody is saying they don't 'belong' here per se, we're saying they wont draw in players.

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5 minutes ago, madrebel said:

so, a fantasy shooter where almost nobody played medic - oh and the medic was an active shooter armed with automatic rifles, smgs, or shotguns. also armed with 'medical-applicators' and a nano regen ability ... k

combined PS/Squad, and arma don't represent enough market potential to spend very limited development resources. we need players, among those already small communities, how many are dedicated 'medics'? go on, do the research or at least guess.

nobody is saying they don't 'belong' here per se, we're saying they wont draw in players.

You represent almost 0 market, this game is actually unplayable 14 hours of the day with less than 64 people online. You can't afford to be picky, you're not winning anyone over disregarding the men who risk their own lives to save others.
If you really want to draw players do the F2P like you said you would, that's literally all these hundreds of people who logged in at launch were waiting for, but after that two weak trial they were gone, same with the youtubers who's communties couldn't join them in the fight without feeling an ounce of disgust that such an old game could still have the unprecedented gnall to assume themselves as above that of games more successful.

Edited by knucks

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5 hours ago, Capco said:

Yes, leadership is more than moving flags.  I have been able to engage and communicate these exact concerns to players.  You know what happens?  Sometimes people listen.  Sometimes people tell me what david is trying to say, that he should have the right to go wherever he chooses even if it is detrimental to his side, and to go pound sand.  There are some people who play this game that do not care at all about the bigger picture, and even get a kick out of how their actions make other players mad.  And sometimes they don't even respond at all because they either don't read chat or don't care.  

 

Don't even suggest for a moment that all I do as an officer is move flags.  How much have you done for the health of the game besides unsubbing and whining your [censored] off?

There comes a point when the ship is just moving in the wrong direction.  I stuck by them for over a decade with the same problems in game with two accounts.  I stuck by them when the bottom fell out in 2012.  I was enthusiastic about the new team.  I gave to squad funder drives and got a cool squad decal in return. However, after 16 years with one sub and over 10 of paying two subs I don't currently see the value in it any longer.  It just appears to me that CRS, based on their roadmap choices, doesn't have the inclination to fix the issues I have with the game.  If they do choose to fix those issues and un ban my primary account I will gladly pay a sub again.  Until then I bought a bit of DLC to drop into the game every now and then. 

As far as whining my [censored] off?  No one does them any favors by telling them everything is great while it's not.  There are sycophants here that would defend CRS for murdering puppies.  That doesn't help them make the game better. It just incentivizes more of the same.

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with so few people, what point is there for a force multiplying unit like medics? in all the examples given, medics help prop up supply - yet with so few people as you suggest, there is no reason to prop up the supply.

nobody is risking their life, this isn't real life. its a video game.

from this link - https://www.yekbot.com/post-scriptum-medic-guide/

Quote

Medics are a important roll in post scriptum and to some can seem overwhelming at first but is usually a very simple roll to play once you have played the game and understand the basics of it.

As a medic your are equipped with the following Rifle, Pistol, Frag grenade(s), Smoke grenades, Bandages, Morphine syringe, Building tool, Binos and finally a canteen.

How to use medical tools- Morphine syringe is used to revive a wounded Ally, Bandages are used to heal a ally to full and stop bleeding.

You are a Medic first and rifleman second your team for the most part depends on you so they can keep the pressure up on either attack or defense.

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so its a completely pixie dust implementation. morphine 'revives' eh? i've had morphine, idk that 'revive' is the word i'd use. enjoyable, fun, chill ... yeah but revive? lol. 'bandages' heal and ally to full 'health' ... yeah you're going to get a lot of support for that here.

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4 minutes ago, madrebel said:

with so few people, what point is there for a force multiplying unit like medics? in all the examples given, medics help prop up supply - yet with so few people as you suggest, there is no reason to prop up the supply.

nobody is risking their life, this isn't real life. its a video game.

from this link - https://www.yekbot.com/post-scriptum-medic-guide/

So because you can't do it you criticize games that do? It is a video game, check your interpretation at the door. No medic, no game.

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you keep saying that - yet it doesn't undermine 17.5 years of this game existing just fine without medics.

anything can be done - you seem to have a mental block surrounding the idea of what should be done though. im guessing thats not your only mental issue.

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8 minutes ago, madrebel said:

you keep saying that - yet it doesn't undermine 17.5 years of this game existing just fine without medics.

anything can be done - you seem to have a mental block surrounding the idea of what should be done though. im guessing thats not your only mental issue.

Yes I'm sure this game is just fine without these improvement, it's actually perfect how it is the reason the numbers are so poor, it's not our fault we don't have medics, it's the players fault for expecting medics in a game about WWII, Right.
Medics have never been a part of any real conflict anyway <_<

Edited by knucks

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Hopefully 1.36 brought us some kind of attrition's rewards.

that JWBS is getting old

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4 minutes ago, knucks said:

Yes I'm sure this game is just fine without these improvement, it's actually perfect how it is the reason the numbers are so poor, it's not our fault we don't have medics, it's the players fault for expecting medics in a game about WWII, Right.
Medics have never been a part of any real conflict anyway <_<

medics have zero to do with the population issues. zero. get over it - or keep proving you're an idiot - doesn't matter much to me.

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42 minutes ago, knucks said:

Now tell me, what's the point of a damage model if getting shot in the leg puts you out of combat?

Well, to be honest, if you took a K98 or Enfield or Garand etc round through your legs, you just might be out of combat.
They are not 5.56 on a sub cartridge but 7.62 or round about, in a full rifle cartridge, these things make nasty wounds, no humane NATO standards.
So possibility your leg(s) might be a little busted up if it hit bone.
Could sever a femoral artery too, in which case you pray quickly.
You might get lucky, but i wouldn't bet anything important on it.

Morphine does not revive, as madrebel has already noted.
It stops you from being in severe pain (you hope, even morphine dont fix everything) and hopefully calms you down enough that i can get you stable and get you the hell out of here. You need morphine, walking is off the table

Adrenaline does, but medics dont go around injecting things like that into you

Bandages, sure they can stop some bleeding depending on how used, but if you are good to go back on the line with a Curad, you are probably the last guy the medic needs to be looking at.
The other guys? they arent going back on the line, they are getting drug out on a litter.

A medic would have no use for binoculars, or building tools? Be highly doubtful he has a pistol.
Most of whom he saves wont be returning for a good while, or maybe never, and his life span isn't too long, especially here where we have no Geneva convention.
Open season an anyone with a medic symbol on their helmet.

Sure lots of games have medics, DOD has medics, Battlefield has them, Wolfenstien has them, Planetside has them, COD has them, etc etc.
And they all do un-natural things, which is fine for them.
This is not a game that purposely does un-natural things.
There may be a place in the game for medics, but not those kinds of medics.
If you and I are on the battlefield, and madrebel light you up with an MG42, there is little i can do except maybe get you off the line alive and to the field hospital, though most likely id be trying to write a letter to your wife, anything else is in the realm of God, or World of Warcraft.

There is also the gameplay aspect with the examples you give and seem to want.

If Madrebel is guarding his FB, and you come along with 8 engineers to try and blow, and he knocks you 8 engineers down, that's it, checkmate
you have no more engineers, He earned that.
You cant go running about with a morphine/adrenaline/pcp cocktail and start injecting bodies and send more re-animated engineers after him.
He took them down, they should be gone, attrited, no more.

Maybe to reduce the resupply ticket time a little by saving one, but not Arise Live Again, Medic =/= Anubis

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The only function for a medic class that I think could make sense in our game would be one that can walk up to dead bodies, perform an action of some type, and allow that infantry unit to go back into the supply list at an accelerated pace.  

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6 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

Well, to be honest, if you took a K98 or Enfield or Garand etc round through your legs, you just might be out of combat.
They are not 5.56 on a sub cartridge but 7.62 or round about, in a full rifle cartridge, these things make nasty wounds, no humane NATO standards.
So possibility your leg(s) might be a little busted up if it hit bone.
Could sever a femoral artery too, in which case you pray quickly.
You might get lucky, but i wouldn't bet anything important on it.

Morphine does not revive, as madrebel has already noted.
It stops you from being in severe pain (you hope, even morphine dont fix everything) and hopefully calms you down enough that i can get you stable and get you the hell out of here. You need morphine, walking is off the table

Adrenaline does, but medics dont go around injecting things like that into you

Bandages, sure they can stop some bleeding depending on how used, but if you are good to go back on the line with a Curad, you are probably the last guy the medic needs to be looking at.
The other guys? they arent going back on the line, they are getting drug out on a litter.

A medic would have no use for binoculars, or building tools? Be highly doubtful he has a pistol.
Most of whom he saves wont be returning for a good while, or maybe never, and his life span isn't too long, especially here where we have no Geneva convention.
Open season an anyone with a medic symbol on their helmet.

Sure lots of games have medics, DOD has medics, Battlefield has them, Wolfenstien has them, Planetside has them, COD has them, etc etc.
And they all do un-natural things, which is fine for them.
This is not a game that purposely does un-natural things.
There may be a place in the game for medics, but not those kinds of medics.
If you and I are on the battlefield, and madrebel light you up with an MG42, there is little i can do except maybe get you off the line alive and to the field hospital, though most likely id be trying to write a letter to your wife, anything else is in the realm of God, or World of Warcraft.

There is also the gameplay aspect with the examples you give and seem to want.

If Madrebel is guarding his FB, and you come along with 8 engineers to try and blow, and he knocks you 8 engineers down, that's it, checkmate
you have no more engineers, He earned that.
You cant go running about with a morphine/adrenaline/pcp cocktail and start injecting bodies and send more re-animated engineers after him.
He took them down, they should be gone, attrited, no more.

Maybe to reduce the resupply ticket time a little by saving one, but not Arise Live Again, Medic =/= Anubis

I would agree with Merlin on all points.

And getting shot in the leg does knock you out of combat immediately.  What do you think happens when bullet hits bone?  You will be lucky to keep your leg.

 

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33 minutes ago, knucks said:

So what's your idea of fun?

was it perfect? nope. will we get everyone back? nope. but the more bad decision we roll back or redesign the closer we'll get to what ww2ol used to be. hundreds of players - PER AO. what isn't shown in the above were the other battles going on at the same time. KFS1 was just farting around recording this stuff in his spare time. What you see in that video series wasn't all that special back in the day. also, what you don't see is the peripheral air battles, planes getting picked off before they even reach the fight, ace wing elements on boths dies fighting each other off, etc.

many improvements have been made in various areas since then, and some negative things have played out at an agonizing glacial pace.

 

thats my idea of fun - unfortunately - its a game you never got to experience. further, you're equating the population issues to 'would be could be nice to have' features from others games you like and failing to account for what the above video clearly shows, a single battle used to be HUGE in this game. zero medics anywhere. the reasons we don't have that population anymore are numerous, the primary reason though is TOEs/flags and the terrible 'job' that HC became. this one issue has driven away more players than any other issue, likely all issues combined, perhaps the early side divide between brits/french claimed more its tough to tell. all issues you know very little about. infantry, tankers, and pilots all left because of Flags on map, some immediately but more slowly left here and there just tired of being let down by the unfortunately incomplete system.

 

1.36 finally takes a bg step towards correcting that big issue. removing weather is IMO another big step, albeit admittedly a step primarily focused at getting pilots back.

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21 minutes ago, Capco said:

The only function for a medic class that I think could make sense in our game would be one that can walk up to dead bodies, perform an action of some type, and allow that infantry unit to go back into the supply list at an accelerated pace.  

The game code only has a process for dying. For a bullet or fragment that's not center mass, the blood loss is slower, and you die slowly. Take a cannon round to the sternum, and it's quick. A medic class could work on you while you're still alive, because there's code to manage how long that status lasts, and by inference how severe the wounding process was. Once you're a dead body, there's no way for the game to know whether that occurred because you slowly bled out from a cut toe, or you took that cannon round to the sternum. So, there's no sensible way for a medic to do anything with dead bodies. Medics can stabilize wounds up to a certain bleedout rate...not beyond.

 

Edited by jwilly

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1.36 has no direct implications on player numbers, your targeting old players who already know this game and follow it closely to slowly return over time to the now great wwiiol, but it doesn't start there it starts with how many people you have in game, while there's quite a few people who would likely come back, seeing the same old numbers may not excite them anymore, maybe they just want the massive battles like old times and don't care for who and how people play, as long as they're having fun. There's a lot more new people to reach developing this game than there is old, I can promise you that.

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7 minutes ago, jwilly said:

The game code only has a process for dying. For a bullet or fragment that's not center mass, the blood loss is slower, and you die slowly. Take a cannon round to the sternum, and it's quick. A medic class could work on you while you're still alive, because there's code to manage that status. Once you're a dead body, there's no way for the game to know whether that occurred because you slowly bled out from a cut toe, or you took that cannon round to the sternum. So, there's no sensible way for a medic to do anything with dead bodies.

 

This is how it could go since we're just throwing in ideas, increase infantry health, create limb damage if it isn't already added, do seperate hitboxes for the shoulders, upper and low arm, hands, legs, all that. So if you get shot in the leg, you lose your sprint until you're bandaged. If you take say a rifle round the the shoulder, that's gonna hurt and you're gonna start to bleed, you'll have to bandage and heal but from a medic, but how much better is that then just respawning, or going the rest of that life with a quarter of your stamina and faded vision? A bit too realistic, it is a game after all and every game has little games and medic and engineer roles are just as much their own games as HC is.
Really not that hard to do it terms of coding if you know what you're doing, and would be such a boost to infantry combat and tactics.

Edited by knucks

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please go shoot yourself in the leg. then come back and tell us about your ability to stand, let alone walk. may as well add health packs that you can walk over, cause, in your vision you can still walk after being shot in the leg.

if its so easy to code, cause clearly you know what you're doing, volunteer and code it. first, pay to play the game though. after that volunteer.

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