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montyuno

Jumping the gun..... TOEs, armour, shields n such..

181 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, gavalink said:

Suppression is constant fire on the spawn (in this case) until the cap is achieved or till (most probably) you run out of ammo in the process.

Exactly.

Hose down the corridors and likely avenues of approach FTW. I recall one mission where I sprayed LMG fire in bursts down a bushline.. saw maybe 2-3 ei bob around there in the distance.. emptied 10 mags downrange in their general direction... scored a lot more kills than I had expected.

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8 hours ago, knucks said:

If you're really that unconfident in what is now a standard feature for realistic F2P, you might as well throw in the towel. Lol, you already play on fearless mode. EVERYONE DOES, IT'S A GAME.
Stop to think for a second what suppression actually means as a GAMEPLAY mechanic and not just an inconvience to your rambo runs.
For you who play no other games, here's a video to show you what we mean by suppression effects. Tell me you wouldn't want this in game.

 

tell me - whats the average population for red orchestra 2?

https://steamcharts.com/app/35450

oh - right - barely anyone plays. following their design choices sounds like a great idea ...

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5 hours ago, Bmbm said:

I invite you to try and introduce a paradigmatic shift incorporating wildly different aspects of gameplay features that have been asked for and suggested by the playerbase over the course of 17 years without running into a few bumps along the way. If you think you can do a better job, you're very welcome to volunteer your time. If all you're going to do is spread negativity, I suggest you direct your energies elsewhere.

 

‘Players’ asked for weather - was that a good paradigm shift?

’players’ ask for lots of things that in practice drove ‘players’ away. 90% of player ideas are bad for the health of the game.

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4 hours ago, gavalink said:

Suppression is constant fire on the spawn (in this case) until the cap is achieved or till (most probably) you run out of ammo in the process.

I reject any ideas of inserting artificial suppression (I hate AI), morale, or fear. When we're winning morale is high. When we're losing morale is low. I fear death in game because I don't want to spend the time getting back into the battle.

 

YES!!!  I took a Somua to an enemy FB yesterday to secure it for the Engies---it was defended by a couple of Infantry, who were dispatched quickly.  From that point on, HE rounds and MG fire was being sprayed into the Infantry spawn (with small breaks to check the Veh spawn).  It didn't work perfectly, as some friendly engineers still perished in the attempt to blow the FB, but the FB was blown, in large part because the enemies who showed up were either facedown in the spawn, spawned into a different mission in a different area, or were dying.  THAT is suppression.

 

I've been a part of hundreds of field problems, and no matter how hectic things got, I never had my vision go black and white, (I will admit to getting my bell rung a couple of times by close concussive effects), and my movements were never slower under fire, (strangely enough, when under fire, one moves a bit quicker than they normally do).  Games that artificially create suppression are not in fact creating suppression at all.  They are creating an immersive effect that lets a player know that really bad things are happening around them, which is fine, especially in a campaign game as opposed to online stuff.  That effect is not suppression, though, nor is it a 'realistic effect' @knucks  . 

 

I wonder if on the 'other games' forums folks are raising holy hell about the tiny maps and wholly unrealistic engagement ranges included in their game models, complete with constant threats to 'head to a game where developers know about the big maps'....

 

@knucks  please don't mistake people, Rats or otherwise, disagreeing with you as being a license to claim that nobody gives a crap, or has failed to play other games, or is married to the 18 years ago version of the game, or that they are somehow lacking in your vast knowledge on the subject of FPS games, MMOs, or MilSims.  It really just means they disagree with you.  That they are listening to you at all should be a signal to you that they are paying attention to everyone whether they are active supporters of the game or forum dart throwers. 

 

I just went to Warbirds and tried to join the community in part so I could see about locating some of the people who used to fill the skies here in WWIIOnline.  I haven't flow in-game in a few years, and anyone who flew against me will tell you plainly that I wasn't all that good at it when I was.  I prefer to recruit folks who already know how to fly online, and delegate those responsibilities to them.  I got a nice email from the site administrator pointing out that I will not be allowed onto the site, as I am not one of the pilots in-game.   And I wasn't even planning on throwing darts at everyone in the community who disagrees with me on their game development strategies...  

 

S!

 

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*** ‘Players’ asked for weather - was that a good paradigm shift?

I like the weather, it's real - deal with it.

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16 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Except when it's a sound bug. 

Been in the middle no where when I hear that BS, nothing near me lol. 

It's funny that you should be talking about this, I stumbled upon the error in the maths last week. 

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41 minutes ago, delems said:

*** ‘Players’ asked for weather - was that a good paradigm shift?

I like the weather, it's real - deal with it.

it isn't real, not even close. nothing about it bears any real resemblance to actual atmospheric weather conditions nor their effects on the simulated earth we play on.

you like weather more than you like the hundreds of paying subscribers it drove off?

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Regarding black and white vision, tunnel vision, ear ringing, moving more slowly, wobbly aim, and so forth...maybe other games use those effects, maybe other participants in this thread think they're good ideas or how suppression should be modeled. My view is that suppression should be auto-shift "down"-one-physical-stance-per-trigger, and that's it.

No forced duration...if you were running and you went to (slower) crouch-running, or all the way down to prone or (someday if developed) low-prone, you can get back up right away, if you want. Your auto-reaction to a near-lethal event is to instantly duck. If the near-lethal event is sufficient in magnitude, you hit the dirt. You don't have to stay that way.

The trigger would be objective: the existing (fixed per Nick) code to detect a bullet passing close by the subject client, and the existing code to check if a fragments-producing event is close enough to check the subject client. Bullets and explosions further away than that wouldn't suppress.

Rational self-"suppression"...taking cover when you think you're in danger, because you want to stay alive and continue your mission, or you need a momentary break to mark an enemy location, or whatever...is unrelated. 

***

As a side point: one of the problems with FF=off in regard to artillery/mortar fire is that friendlies at times can run right through bursts that would kill enemies.

The proposed suppression mechanic could be coded so that artillery/mortar fire always would suppress friendlies...maybe for longer or at a greater distance than for enemies, to partly offset the non-lethality advantage had by friendlies. 

Edited by jwilly
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1 hour ago, madrebel said:

‘Players’ asked for weather - was that a good paradigm shift?

I don't think we have nearly enough weather. We have one season, with some low hanging clouds and squalls of rain now and again. I'd like to see more variety and more terrain effects. Heck, we don't even have proper bogs.

Watch what you ask for, you might just get it (or a variation of it).

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15 minutes ago, madrebel said:

it isn't real, not even close. nothing about it bears any real resemblance to actual atmospheric weather conditions nor their effects on the simulated earth we play on.

you like weather more than you like the hundreds of paying subscribers it drove off?

Geeze, Mad, I don't think CRS is in business to find ways to have fewer customers. Take it easy.

I think CRS is trying to create a differentiated game, because it's business-suicidal for a little company to try to compete directly against big companies that have coffee budgets bigger than CRS's gross revenue.

Some of those big competitors offer games that are semi-realistic shooters, targeted at the mass market of wannabe-hero punters. Since the beginning, CRS has tried to differentiate by going...or sometimes, trying to go, within design limitations...toward more realism, as opposed to fake and pseudo realism arranged to that wannabe-hero players get their fix.

Maybe that strategy won't work out. Certainly a lot of potential customers, and some current customers too, want more "hero" in their gaming than CRS can deliver without being unsufficiently distinguishable from the big guys. But, CRS chose to try a long time ago, and they've renewed that choice several times since then.

Meanwhile, I think it's fair to say that CRS is open to practical ideas as to how to improve game-functionality. I'm pretty sure that involves weather. I doubt if "improving" would include just removing it, but I could be wrong. But, other improvements may be practically achievable.

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1 hour ago, augetout said:

I just went to Warbirds

WTH what what.. what was your nick there? Any of the old crowd still around there?

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2 hours ago, madrebel said:

tell me - whats the average population for red orchestra 2?

https://steamcharts.com/app/35450

oh - right - barely anyone plays. following their design choices sounds like a great idea ...

Oh, do you want to compare steam numbers?  CRS dreams of having red orchestra 2 numbers right now.

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9 minutes ago, Bmbm said:

WTH what what.. what was your nick there? Any of the old crowd still around there?

I couldn't get in, and didn't play the game back in the day.  Warbirds people, (members of Lafayette Escadrille, for the most part, Turo specifically), were, however, crucial in the early growth of Lafayette Federation, so I figured that I'd give it a shot to see who was still around.  I may have to buy the damn game just to recruit for this one, lol.

 

You know I just left the air wing of Lafayette Federation to the people who knew about that end of things... :)

 

S!

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50 minutes ago, Bmbm said:

proper bogs

Quite a bit of 1940 western Europe was marshy, or highland lake/swamp ground, or just wet farmland that churned under >10 psi ground pressure.

The 1940 Allied defense was called the Dyle Plan, after the prepared positioning of the Belgian Army on the western slope of the Dyle River valley. The Dyle was not a wide river, but the eastern Dyle bank for much of its length was extensively marshy. (Unfortunately, old-CRS didn't include the Dyle River on the map.)

Much of the Battle of the Bulge was driven by movement constraints due to terrain and weather, including the bad going of the Hohes Venn area in the north, and the limiting nature of steep valleys with heavily wooded hillsides and a winding river at the bottom, in weather that cycled between heavy mist and frequent rain, which then became deep snow and ice. A good study of the effects of weather and terrain on that battle is at https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a121480.pdf.

Edited by jwilly

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1 hour ago, madrebel said:

it isn't real, not even close. nothing about it bears any real resemblance to actual atmospheric weather conditions nor their effects on the simulated earth we play on.

Well, to be honest, it kind of resembles Florida weather.
Yea i know, France =/= Florida

I like the weather myself, cloudy is good time to take out a blenny.

Cloud cover could be maybe less solid, more varied, since it is theaterwide right now, that would give breaks in the cloud cover since you cant fly out of it.
And i will give you that sometimes the algorithm running the weather seems bipolar or schizophrenic, rain for 5 minutes, stop, clear, then monsoon for 20.
It does not always do that, but some times it does, which is kind of weird, and sometimes it does feel like it gets stuck and runs something a bit longish for the
compressed theater time scale.

But over all, i'd rather have it than not have it 

It does not seem to be using all the variations it had when 1st introduced, i kind of miss the pea soup foggy mornings, if it could be timed to only occasionally
run that, and only between like 0600 (theater time) to like 0930

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1 minute ago, Merlin51 said:

Cloud cover could be maybe less solid, more varied, since it is theaterwide right now

Definitely an important weather improvement would be to band or zone it, so that somewhere there's always good flying weather, and somewhere else there may be low-visibility rain or fog.

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12 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Definitely an important weather improvement would be to band or zone it, so that somewhere there's always good flying weather, and somewhere else there may be low-visibility rain or fog.

Cell based weather would be great, you could probably build a somewhat plausible front like that, and move it around etc.
Beyond my brain cell capacity though, think that would be in the coding side of things.
Would definitely be cool, take off on a clear early morning in France, and as you reach sight of Dover, you see the heavy morning fog.

it would be right about that point, Spitfires come streaking out of it and shoot me down, but it would look good till i hit the water :)

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1 hour ago, Bmbm said:

I don't think we have nearly enough weather. We have one season, with some low hanging clouds and squalls of rain now and again. I'd like to see more variety and more terrain effects. Heck, we don't even have proper bogs.

Watch what you ask for, you might just get it (or a variation of it).

The weather is good. It adds a different dynamic even if it is extremely basic with no weather patterns, severe ground effect (I. E. Rains a lot 12-24 hours, ground becomes boggy, making it harder to run, slow vehicles down etc) would be a fantastic addition (if possible) adding greater dynamics to strategic an  battlefield tactics

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2 hours ago, Bmbm said:

I don't think we have nearly enough weather. We have one season, with some low hanging clouds and squalls of rain now and again. I'd like to see more variety and more terrain effects. Heck, we don't even have proper bogs.

Watch what you ask for, you might just get it (or a variation of it).

And youll lose whats left of your players if you actually model bad weather and apply its affects to the ground war.

 

Here i thought you wanted to have a profitable game.

*edit* seriously, someone pull the subscription stats pre and post weather. Prove me wrong. Prove it didnt drive away players. 

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35 minutes ago, aleca said:

The weather is good. It adds a different dynamic even if it is extremely basic with no weather patterns, severe ground effect (I. E. Rains a lot 12-24 hours, ground becomes boggy, making it harder to run, slow vehicles down etc) would be a fantastic addition (if possible) adding greater dynamics to strategic an  battlefield tactics

If its so good, why dont you pay to play the game?

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2 minutes ago, madrebel said:

If its so good, why dont you pay to play the game?

I do thanks, through steam. So climb off your high horse please. 

It's my opinion, I like fighting in different weather. It'd be boring if every day was exactly the same. it makes it harder, its part of the game, I don't sulk about it because I don't like it same with anything. I wouldn't sulk and take away my subs because of 1 thing I didn't like about the game. I more grown-up than that. I accept the fact its there, part of the game enjoy playing and either get used to it or learn how to use it. Regardless of what the "it" is. 

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13 minutes ago, madrebel said:

If its so good, why dont you pay to play the game?

Just so people know, the forums has no way of knowing if a steam player pays, it is tied into the organic billing system, and steam uses something different.
So a paying steam player will appear here as a free player.

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23 minutes ago, aleca said:

I do thanks, through steam. So climb off your high horse please. 

It's my opinion, I like fighting in different weather. It'd be boring if every day was exactly the same. it makes it harder, its part of the game, I don't sulk about it because I don't like it same with anything. I wouldn't sulk and take away my subs because of 1 thing I didn't like about the game. I more grown-up than that. I accept the fact its there, part of the game enjoy playing and either get used to it or learn how to use it. Regardless of what the "it" is. 

Hundreds of paying players left. Its not realistic, it only penalizes pilots.

Would you rather have hundreds of paying pilots come back, at which point we may be able to afford truesky ... or is fake westher with zero realism more important?

Ground players love realism that doesnt apply to them.

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5 minutes ago, madrebel said:

Hundreds of paying players left. Its not realistic, it only penalizes pilots.

Would you rather have hundreds of paying pilots come back, at which point we may be able to afford truesky ... or is fake westher with zero realism more important?

Ground players love realism that doesnt apply to them.

I fly too just not quite up to speed with it yet, just so you don't get anything else wrong about me in game, only thing I've not done is navy. 

I'd rather have it than not at all. Yes I'd love to see it improved and yes there is a lot of scope to do so. Will I'd want to go back to as it is now after an improvement? hell no! Will I complain if it was removed until improved? No, I'd continue my sub. 

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1 hour ago, madrebel said:

Hundreds of paying players left. Its not realistic, it only penalizes pilots.

Would you rather have hundreds of paying pilots come back, at which point we may be able to afford truesky ... or is fake westher with zero realism more important?

Ground players love realism that doesnt apply to them.

Saying the rain doesn't 'penalize' folks on the ground is a matter of perspective I suppose.  For me, on the ground, the rain makes it much more difficult/challenging to hear vehicles, troops running around, etc.   I understand and appreciate the concerns raised by the way weather has been implemented, as it pertains to pilots.  My guess is weather will be upgraded in the days to come, and if that is the reason hundreds of pilots left, then we'll see a bunch return.

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