knucks

F2P Model Redone

28 posts in this topic

Current F2P is weak and a complete failure, this is what F2P should look like if you want an influx of player

 

----Infantry---- 

-Rifleman
-Medic
-Engineer
-AT:Rifleman

-LMG
-Mortarman
-Automatic Rifleman
-Sapper
-Sniper
-AT-:Rockets
-Grenadier
-SMG

---AT guns---
 Light:
-25mm, 2pdr (40mm) 
-PaK 37 (37mm) 

 Medium:
-6pdr (57mm), 47mm
-PaK 38 (50mm)


Heavy:
-76.2mm
-75mm



---AA guns---
 Light: 
-25mm 
-20mm

Medium:
-Bofors 40mm
-Flak 40mm

Heavy:

-Flak 36 (88m)

--- Scout Cars---
---Light Tanks---
  Vickers Mk. VI  (.50cal)
 PzKpfw II Ausf. C (20mm)

 

-Medium Tanks-
Crusader Mk II  (40mm)
 PzKpfw III Ausf. F (37mm)

-Heavy tanks-
-Tank Destroyers-
-Trucks✓

---Aircraft---
 Hurricane Mk I (8x .303)
Spitfire Mk Ia (8x .303)
Messerschmitt Bf 109E-1

---Navy---
Fairmile B
Fairmile B (captured)

 

As you can see the equipment is either low tier or early war and everything (except infantry) only recieves 1-2 per side.
Most importantly it's a strong variety of each tree, someone could play this and not get bored from lack of content.
What this does offer is new players the ability to learn and enjoy the game at their own pace before putting up money to invest in more units
More units=ability to face the odds of the battlefield with more powerful equipment
No units=People get bored, you attract and keep no players
Thanks for reading!

 

Edited by knucks

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Agree. I would open up the spawn lists as well, only change is Tier0 medium armor only opens up after Tier0 starts, since early in the game there is no true "heavy" armor for the Axis side since all their tanks were medium tanks.

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11 minutes ago, aismov said:

Agree. I would open up the spawn lists as well, only change is Tier0 medium armor only opens up after Tier0 starts, since early in the game there is no true "heavy" armor for the Axis side since all their tanks were medium tanks.

Was just about to say that in regards to the medium armor.

 

Imo, the way @DOC did F2P was the best method I've seen so far.  Iirc, it was very similar to knucks list with a couple exceptions:

-In T0, each side would have their basic airplane available (H75, Hurri1, 109E1)

-Once T2 hit, the F2P would get access to the next level of fighter (Dewo, Spit1, 109E4)

-Once T3 hit, the F2P would get access to the T1 fighter plane (H81, Spit2b, 109F2)

-Similar approach to armor?  I think by T3, F2P had access to another tank (H39, A13, P3).  

-No bombers for F2P at any point

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Fair enough for me. That still leaves hundreds of  premium units, with more coming down the line.

Edited by knucks

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On 2/7/2019 at 6:56 AM, Capco said:

Was just about to say that in regards to the medium armor.

 

Imo, the way @DOC did F2P was the best method I've seen so far.  Iirc, it was very similar to knucks list with a couple exceptions:

-In T0, each side would have their basic airplane available (H75, Hurri1, 109E1)

-Once T2 hit, the F2P would get access to the next level of fighter (Dewo, Spit1, 109E4)

-Once T3 hit, the F2P would get access to the T1 fighter plane (H81, Spit2b, 109F2)

-Similar approach to armor?  I think by T3, F2P had access to another tank (H39, A13, P3).  

-No bombers for F2P at any point

premium green tags need to be in prior tier gear as we progress too. so not fair to new players that they're in awful gear in tier3. if the above were true then premium players with no rank would be technically worse off than f2p players.

f2p as above, non ranked premium then is one tier better, with ranked premium in current kit. otherwise it is an active disincentive for new players to subscribe.

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45 minutes ago, madrebel said:

 if the above were true then premium players with no rank would be technically worse off than f2p players.

How is that possibly the case when premium players get everything F2P would get along with the rest of the entire tree to pick from? I fail to see the advantage you're talking about here.

Edited by knucks

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It's already been tried for years in this game. It failed and cost more subscribers than it brought in. That is fact.

While some of my CRS compatriots might have a differing opinion on trying it again, mine is that until there is an alternate way to monetize those unwilling to support a game they obviously enjoy by evidence of their time and presence taking advantage of the company and those that DO support the ongoing effort, there is no logical reason to go down that road again. Ad's, short time unit or "pack" leases, some sort of external marketing "duty" that can be redeemed for free time/equipment, whatever...  Something that turns that sucking black hole drain of non-supportive players into something that benefits the project rather than taking advantage of it and those that do siphoning away resources "for free".

Figure out how to do that, and we have something to work towards that hasn't already proven to be in-effective in the context of our current game and billing systems.

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15 minutes ago, HATCH said:

It's already been tried for years. It failed and cost more subscribers than it brought in. That is fact.

While some of my CRS compatriots might have a differing opinion on trying it again, mine is that until there is an alternate way to monetize those unwilling to support the game they obviously enjoy by evidence of their time and presence taking advantage of the company and those that DO support the ongoing effort, there is no logical reason to go down that road again. Ad's, short time unit or "pack" leases, some sort of external marketing "duty" that can be redeemed for free equipment, whatever...  Something that turns that black hole drain of non-supportive players into something that benefits the project rather than simply take advantage of those that do and siphoning away resources "for free".

Figure out how to do that, and we have something to work towards that hasn't already proven to be in-effective in the context of our current game and billing systems.

Get rid of F2P entirely, rather offer up a 3 month trial package at a greatly reduced rate ($5.00 ?). Add milestones to help new players rank up quicker by doing assorted things such as place a fms, Use HE charges on a FMS or FB, use comms, Take part in a successful cap of a depot or AB, etc. Short videos on how to do these things would go along way towards traning.  Also get rid of the locked units designated only to steam or F2P players entirely. 

Edited by nc0gnet0
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But it wasn't tried when it really mattered. 
It's a two way street, people aren't going to pay premiums for a game with unsustainable population.
On the other hand you have to see the support in numbers, just the fact that people are in game make them customers to an extent.
The cost per players in bandwith on a server is about 5 dollars a year. So would you rather have 200 more concurrent players or 1,000 bucks.
Point is it has been figured out, the formula is solved, just look at the front page of steam. We know what works by way of other companies doing it.

Edited by knucks

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No one at CRS ever really understood how a F2P might add value to the game, seems F2P is viewed as "free stuff we're giving away" and how they could minimize it, not as a way to populate their mostly-empty game world without lowering the sub price.

 

For instance the blenheim and stuka are practically worthless bombers now, they are also flying bait (outside of maybe a dozen experienced stuka pilots which no longer fly) and letting F2P fly those would just give the subs more stuff targets to shoot at. With less than 10 pilots per side most of the day they should be doing anything to get people in the air. 

14 minutes ago, HATCH said:

Something that turns that sucking black hole drain of non-supportive players into something that benefits the project rather than taking advantage of it and those that do siphoning away resources "for free".

Figure out how to do that, and we have something to work towards that hasn't already proven to be in-effective in the context of our current game and billing systems.

you have significant fixed costs every month, there is no way that a handful of concurrent F2P players logged in is even a blip on your infrastructure or payroll

perhaps if the game had thousands of concurrent users and 90% of them F2P with just a small core of subscribers or premium players (like other games), and you had to upgrade hardware to handle the load, but not when there are so few online

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23 minutes ago, nc0gnet0 said:

Get rid of F2P entirely, rather offer up a 3 month trial package at a greatly reduced rate ($5.00 ?). Add milestones to help new players rank up quicker by doing assorted things such as place a fms, Use HE charges on a FMS or FB, use comms, Take part in a successful cap of a depot or AB, etc. Short videos on how to do these things would go along way towards traning.  Also get rid of the locked units designated only to steam or F2P players entirely. 

That would be foolish. Trials do not work anymore now that F2P exists and games are pulling in hundreds of millions on cosmetics alone while being completely free. 
You honestly think people are actually going to pay money for a trial? I recommend some reading

https://www.quora.com/Do-free-games-make-money-on-steam-How-If-so-how-much
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-do-micro-transactions-apex-legends-work

Edited by knucks

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30 minutes ago, knucks said:

But it wasn't tried when it really mattered. Point is it has been figured out, the formula is solved, just look at the front page of steam.

No difference then than now, I mean we did it right up to Steam release. It simply failed. Wishful thinking will not change that fact. Yes there IS a "free play" formula that can work as I suggested above. You figure out how to monetize them somehow so that that "free play" supports itself. Figure out a way we can do that other than the proven fallacy of "make it all free and things will be so awesome that enough will pay to make it great for us  all". Simply not true because it goes against human nature.    

29 minutes ago, david06 said:

No one at CRS ever really understood how a F2P might add value to the game, seems F2P is viewed as "free stuff we're giving away" and how they could minimize it, not as a way to populate their mostly-empty game world without lowering the sub price.

 

For instance the blenheim and stuka are practically worthless bombers now, they are also flying bait (outside of maybe a dozen experienced stuka pilots which no longer fly) and letting F2P fly those would just give the subs more stuff targets to shoot at. With less than 10 pilots per side most of the day they should be doing anything to get people in the air. 

No. Not true. Otherwise why would we have even bothered with it for all those years before at all? YOU guys simply refuse to accept the FACT that the entire time we did it before, the gain in "giving the subs more stuff to shoot at" NEVER offset the incentive to just forgo a sub and play for free. Simple fact driven by human nature and made worse by current entitlement culture. 

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14 minutes ago, HATCH said:

No difference then than now, I mean we did it right up to Steam release. It simply failed. Wishful thinking will not change that fact. Yes there IS a "free play" formula that can work as I suggested above. You figure out how to monetize them some how so that that "free play" somehow supports itself.

I gotchu, read the articles I posted. Not tryna stress you but I want CRS to see that although it goes against perception, free games are the ones making the most money and people are spending collective millions on what would translate to WWIIol as vehicle camo's, uniforms and decals. Pretty much anything cosmetic and/or vanity.  Nobody wants to be a soldier, they want to be THE soldier and cosmetics do that in a realistic manner without effecting gameplay. I suggest looking at War Thunder for that, they have a good mix of premium units for sub and a hell of a lot of customization for micro-transactions.  Quick off the top, we have what, 50 vehicles? 2 buyable cammo's for each for 2 bucks a pop, 100 bucks per person. A poor example but you see what I mean. It adds up is my point.

Edited by knucks

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1 hour ago, knucks said:

How is that possibly the case when premium players get everything F2P would get along with the rest of the entire tree to pick from? I fail to see the advantage you're talking about here.

non ranked premium = stuck in crap gear despite technically having access to everything. once they hit rank ... 5? i think rank 5 then all the 'high tier' gear unlocks. beena rguing since forever to have 'green tag' players essentially trail the 'high tier' gear by one RDP cycle.

instead, if we're in tier3 and you just joined the game - as an example - you're stuck in h75s, hurri1s, or 109E1s flying against spit9s, p38s, and 109G6/190A4s. zero historical precedent for this and its overly difficult for anyone, let alone a brand new player.

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In other words.........all you vets and other old time players who unsubbed because the game wasnt what you wanted arent getting more $hit for free as a F2P account until it can be monitized properly when it can benefit all.

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The true is, if i can play free as Stuka i never pay more for this game and play only as a free Stuka, Bf109 E-1, Pak36 and Smg guy.

And i think many other make this to if we have more DLC soon.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, sajuk said:

The true is, if i can play free as Stuka i never pay more for this game and play only as a free Stuka, Bf109 E-1, Pak36 and Smg guy.

And i think many other make this to if we have more DLC soon.

Haha, you say that but then you find yourself on equal footing with 1000 other people using the exact same equipment all the time and you're going to want more. They always do ;) 

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ftp should only get stuff if they earn it , say after 5 caps they get access to smg or lmg for 24 hrs . So if they work for it they can play with it for a bit . 

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30 minutes ago, tatonka said:

ftp should only get stuff if they earn it , say after 5 caps they get access to smg or lmg for 24 hrs . So if they work for it they can play with it for a bit . 

Sure if you want to go the hero's and general's route. Problem with that is no one is asking for LMG to be f2p. Basic functionality at all capacity is what F2P needs, premium equipment like heavy tanks, 88's and AT: rockets can be left premium. LMG is actually where I would draw the line, it's a pretty basic kit for a squad, but it's power is more than that of what I would call basic. AT rifleman on the other hand is the most bare bones AT equipment a infantry man can get their hands on, and in nearly every case you'd rather have a sapper or rocket. Moving to vehicles, fighters can serve Air and Ground, so you don't need to give F2P a bomber, that's a premium. An A13 or a Panzer 3 can with their >50mm guns can face armor in the most basic form, that you have to either be an exceptional shot or be in great position. I'd still rather have a MK III or a long barreled Panzer G though which is why it's a premium. You face enough of those in your dinky little short barreled mediums and you'll be begging for your moms credit card to upgrade :ice_cream::popcorn:

Edited by knucks

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it does not have to be lmg ,It can be some kind of reward for capping , but not a lasting reward. 

 

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6 minutes ago, tatonka said:

it does not have to be lmg ,It can be some kind of reward for capping , but not a lasting reward. 

Well if points for actions accumulated and you could spend them on something instead of rank, that may work. I look at foxhole, their ranking system is entirely on comendations. People give you a commend sort of like a +1 that goes to your rank. This can be anything from running logi to recruiting a tank, reviving people or generally being a good leader. What I don't like about WWIIo ranking is that it not all that meaningful. Eventually everyone ends up the max rank so it doesn't carry any value other than equipment unlocks. But that's another topic.

Edited by knucks

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1 hour ago, nc0gnet0 said:

Get rid of F2P entirely, rather offer up a 3 month trial package at a greatly reduced rate ($5.00 ?). Add milestones to help new players rank up quicker by doing assorted things such as place a fms, Use HE charges on a FMS or FB, use comms, Take part in a successful cap of a depot or AB, etc. Short videos on how to do these things would go along way towards traning.  Also get rid of the locked units designated only to steam or F2P players entirely. 

Steam Achievements would work well with these kinds of tasks while helping players learn the game.  

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7 minutes ago, knucks said:

What I don't like about WWIIo ranking is that it not all that meaningful. Eventually everyone ends up the max rank so it doesn't carry any value other than equipment unlocks. But that's another topic.

Totally agree with this. Can't change soon enough1

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As has been said before, without alternative ways to monetize the game FTP won't support itself since subscribing players will simply start playing for free instead (though I still support a slight expansion to F2P).

That said I think the cosmetic avenue is somewhere that CRS needs to go. And it should be expanded to pretty much anything in game.

 

Want to rename the Dinant Factory as the 31st Sausage Works? SOLD! Only $24.99 for a 12-month lease on that name.

Want to rent an ingame billboard to advertise your squad? SOLD! Only $5 per billboard, per month with towns/locations of your choosing/

Want to put a Shark's Mouth on your Stuka? SOLD! Only $3.99 for a decal.

Want to have a semi-custom building/compound for your squad in Paris/London/Berlin? SOLD! Only $199.99 with options to expand the compound.

Want to change the camo one your tank? SOLD! Only $5.99 to get Zimmerit paint on your Tiger.

Want a custom squad patch on your infantry? SOLD! Only $59.99 to upload the squad patch after we approve your design and then $5.99 per member who wants to buy it.

 

This list goes on. As the Star Citizen experience shows us. If you offered to build a gigantic statue of someone dropping a grenade into a toilet for $15,000; I'm sure you would find someone crazy enough to buy it.

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On 2/10/2019 at 3:28 PM, aismov said:

As has been said before, without alternative ways to monetize the game FTP won't support itself since subscribing players will simply start playing for free instead (though I still support a slight expansion to F2P).

That said I think the cosmetic avenue is somewhere that CRS needs to go. And it should be expanded to pretty much anything in game.

That sounds like a weakness of the subscription, not the f2p. The f2p is needed to pull players, whatever monetization that follows is cashing in on the pool. That or a one time buy starter pack, followed by subscription for unlimited access like Albion online does.
The biggest problem with this game as an MMO is that it's population generally isn't much larger than it's non-mmo counterparts. There's many hours of the day where the game is generally unplayable, in that there's so few players that certain content just doesn't take place.

If the cosmetic route was taken, then some kind of expanded f2p or a more affordable accessable 1 time buy would have to be employed, otherwise you're just asking for more money from the same old people who already pay the sub, which doesn't solve population. Actually the strong part of cosmetics and why it's so widely used is because it targets everyone including f2p, but if the f2p doesn't have the equipment to put the cosmetic on then it's a loss.

Edited by knucks

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