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Capco

The FMS, the Light Infantry FRU, and You

Mission Leader FRUs   62 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we expand/reintroduce the Infantry-based FRU?

    • Yes (LMG allowed)
      19
    • Yes (LMG restricted)
      10
    • No
      33

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

203 posts in this topic

The Infantry FMS was an unmitigated disaster...

It was not that long ago, does no one remember...???

It was the final nail in the chest of the population of that time period....

Gunners and armour guys finally gave up, some squads also, most have not come back many of their indy infantry friends left too...

Infantry FMSs are no solution to anything, they are toxic to everything this game should be about to be successful.......

We already know that, why is this even an option....

It's great to brainstorm new ideas.. These are always conversations we should have... However this has been tried and failed in epic fashion....

Things are looking up lets not blow it....

Cheers Monty

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One thing of note. We always knocked the infantry FRU for its ability to pop up anywhere. It was decried as unrealistic. How much more realistic is it for one guy to defend against what in theory is supposed to simulate a brigade or division sized element coming at him?  

Capco is right. This game is broken at one of its most core elements.  Spawning in the game world. During the Steam launch I saw some players refer to the game as spawn camp online. They weren’t wrong. There is a segment of this community that wants to sit back and rack up kills by camping spawns. The fewer spawns there are the easier that is to accomplish. 

More spawns equals a better fight. It has always been that way. Attackers and defenders alike should have spawns all over the place. Heavy ATGs should be available in depots on defense. More spawning options allows for fights instead of spawn camping. 

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What about limiting it to a maximum specific distance from the FMS (veh) and only placable by the leader?

Like

- FB - FMS (veh) - - FRU

It would realistically show progression.

The FMS (which is initially more difficult to place) can be placed further away and from there you push and then set inf FRU.

Other benefits:

- it would be easier to create a ZOC at a FMS which is far away from town.

- if the inf FRU is camped you can close it without pain because you still have the FMS. The attack goes on.

PS just reading again I saw that Medrebel made similar proposal

Edited by piska250

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1 hour ago, Capco said:

@dre21Even if we agree to disagree, thank you for taking the time to respond.  I don't think that any attacker should just be given a foothold, but I would like to make things a little easier in that regard.  

 

The poll numbers don't look promising, but at least we are getting some other ideas being tossed around about how to help the attacker.  A lot of people recognize that something needs to be done to make the game less defense-centric.  

 

S!

 By no way am I a CRS member nor do I have any influence , but I have come up with countless other options, that would change the attacking picture.

From Trucks being able to set more then 1 FMS up to 3 making camping and shutting down an attack so much harder.

To separate the INF FMS and the AAA and ATG FMS to make it easier to protect from camping tanks.

To up the charges one needs to take down an FMS currently 4 make it 10 that would require 3 engineers or 5 sapper, or any other combination of troops that have HE , if you know u r FMS is already being sapped and you still leave to run to town then it's no one but your own fault why am attack has failed and folded.

To Engineers being able to set fake FMS that look like an FMS but are not ,to redesign the FMS to put flags inside so that one needs to actually confirm its an FMS and not just a fake one, especially if no one spawns there , sure you see someone spawn then it's easy to ID.

To give Paratroopers an FMS option with limited spawn ability , once that is exhausted new troops have to be flown in and new FMS has to be set , to give Paratroopers a faster cap timer due to being an elite branch of the military  ( would spurn on Team play and Paratrooper play) only ML could set a ParaFMS and each player on that mission would get one respawn of his chosen unit he started the trip with.

That would make more sense then some HC or ML swim across and set an instant Army across a river.

Heck I can even get behind a Truck or ML ( needs to be Engineer) set up a PPO a raft then paddle across the river and from there he gets to set a FRU but it needs to be with 200 meters of the River and not miles behind the town . Yes I can get behind that , but a ML or HC just walk to town or just swim then set up a FRU close enough to town and spawn out of all sorts of spots and kill the ATG and AAA game and [censored] off that fraction of player base that's left and see them leave is sure not worth it.

Everything I have mentioned above is more appealing to me then any FRU idea you guys can come up with be it Rifle only or an expansion of it .

And these are just my thoughts and ideas to give the attackers more options to sustain said attack. 

@aismov @dre21 @B2Kthis is not supposed to be here

 

Edited by dre21

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You guys need to do something to make spawning easier for the attacker. Whether it's some new FRU or even if it's just something simpler like eliminating the retarded FMS build time (should be ten seconds at most).

Defending is so ridiculously easy in this game I want to know what everyone is so afraid of.

allies in Boullion just resorted to parking a matilda at their FMS to block their spawning infantry from getting sniped, I only died because I ran in to place my HE charge lol

boullion-camp.jpg 

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19 minutes ago, dre21 said:

 That would make more sense then some HC or ML swim across and set an instant Army across a river.

reduce FMS deploy time is logically the better first step I'll grant you that. However - can't deploy FRU more than X meters from AB/FB/FMS gets rid of the ability to spawn across a river or other such craziness too.

 

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underpop has the same problem setting up attacks as they did with the glass FB's: they can't sustain them cause it's easy to end attacks

 

you guys don't understand the magnitude of battles ending before they even begin. early defense getting a leg up is fine, but auto-win is not fun. auto-win without activity (combined arms/teamwork/leadership) is just plain boring

 

1 hour ago, Capco said:

The poll numbers don't look promising, but at least we are getting some other ideas being tossed around about how to help the attacker.  A lot of people recognize that something needs to be done to make the game less defense-centric.  

i'm surprised it's mostly even, seems split between the sim/reenactor and gameplay factions.

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45 minutes ago, major0noob said:

 

 

i'm surprised it's mostly even, seems split between the sim/reenactor and gameplay factions.

That is a conclusion not based on evidence.  You have zero idea of who the poll splits are consisting of, and should not assert otherwise, especially when it fits neatly into your narrative seeking to denigrate those who disagree with you as being 'reenactors' whenever  possible.  It is disingenuous. 

 

S!

Edited by augetout

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45 minutes ago, major0noob said:

underpop has the same problem setting up attacks as they did with the glass FB's: they can't sustain them cause it's easy to end attacks

 

you guys don't understand the magnitude of battles ending before they even begin. early defense getting a leg up is fine, but auto-win is not fun. auto-win without activity (combined arms/teamwork/leadership) is just plain boring

 

i'm surprised it's mostly even, seems split between the sim/reenactor and gameplay factions.

Agreed.  At least some people understand.  Mattwitt just resubbed for the first time in years and he is bored out of his mind 90% of the time he is logged on.  He doesn't plan on staying subbed at all.

 

As far as the split, I'm also surprised this proposal isn't more popular.  

 

This lack of action is more dangerous to the game's health than the overpop/underpop thing.  

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Why does wveryone keep complaining about lack of action?  

AOs and DOs are up 24/7 on the server.

If one battle stops quickly, then a new one starts somewhere else in 5-10 minutes.

I have never found a problem getting into a fight in this game - EVER.

If all the FMS go down in an attack, then I just drive a new truck out to setup a new FMS.  If the defense is pushed out everywhere, and I can’t get close to town, then I just ask HC for a new AO - and we switch targets.

What is the big deal?

PS - We also need to stop blaming a specific game mechanic for lower population levels on the server:  WW2 Online is an old game.  Its amazing it is even still going today!  Nothing will bring the population levels back to the old days - (including new FRUs, going back town-based supply, new ewuipment, new textures, etc..).   Only WW2 Online 2.0 (a new game engine) will bring massive players back to this game.  We should all probably realise this by now.

Edited by krazydog

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54 minutes ago, krazydog said:

Why does wveryone keep complaining about lack of action?  

AOs and DOs are up 24/7 on the server.

If one battle stops quickly, then a new one starts somewhere else in 5-10 minutes.

I have never found a problem getting into a fight in this game - EVER.

If all the FMS go down in an attack, then I just drive a new truck out to setup a new FMS.  If the defense is pushed out everywhere, and I can’t get close to town, then I just ask HC for a new AO - and we switch targets.

What is the big deal?

PS - We also need to stop blaming a specific game mechanic for lower population levels on the server:  WW2 Online is an old game.  Its amazing it is even still going today!  Nothing will bring the population levels back to the old days - (including new FRUs, going back town-based supply, new ewuipment, new textures, etc..).   Only WW2 Online 2.0 (a new game engine) will bring massive players back to this game.  We should all probably realise this by now.

Agree with all of the above.

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every second of down-time is an opportunity for players to log off and go do something else, 5-10 minutes is catastrophic

if one team has logged off and isn't attacking, then your team's 1 AO is the sole source of content on the server 

1 AO means mandatory down-time between attacks; down-time while the AO is removed then applied again, down-time if the HC has to decide on a new AO, and vastly more down-time if FBs need to be blown

someone needs to bring back the wiretap thing then put a widget on the front page so everyone can see the "kills per minute" on the server, and decide how much action there really is

10 minutes ago, krazydog said:

Only WW2 Online 2.0 (a new game engine) will bring massive players back to this game.  We should all probably realise this by now.

You could remake this game 100% in UE4 and there would still be low population because basic FPS mechanics like spawning and capturing are completely messed up. They are way too slow for engaging or balanced FPS play. They are this way because strategic game is easier to manage with a gimped FPS game than if players were logging on and constantly fighting and taking towns.

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Krazydog well said , I was just coming in here to post the same thing.

Yesterday I set a DFMS up between town and FB , killed a few Trucks shot at a S35 made him smoke , before that killed a Laffy 15 that killed me twice even that before he even got one shot off with his SMG gunner I had 3 HE rounds on him but it didn't seem to phase him or his driver. But that's all besides the point , after I lost my last pak36 from the DFMS , I left it up but spawned in town as a Stug and kept pushing back the Allied attack.

After all that was over joined into an FB attack once that was accomplished kept driving to Etain and took down the AI on the AF , we capped that town and it was on to Aarschott that was under attack . Not one dull moment . 

What's next we go on a start talking Rapid Assault again for the INF player?

The only reason why the FRU ever made it into our beloved game was because CRS wanted to capture more of the twitch kiddies and MOH and COD crowd . With that came the stupid Idea of Rapid Assault and in the end it drove more long time loyal paying players away from the game .

Cause what used to be a combined war game turned into how fast and how silent can we set up FRUs for the Infantry players and with that came along what I have outlined above with our ATG ,AAA and any other equipment players that wasn't INF.

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1 hour ago, krazydog said:

Why does wveryone keep complaining about lack of action?  

AOs and DOs are up 24/7 on the server.

If one battle stops quickly, then a new one starts somewhere else in 5-10 minutes.

I have never found a problem getting into a fight in this game - EVER.

If all the FMS go down in an attack, then I just drive a new truck out to setup a new FMS.  If the defense is pushed out everywhere, and I can’t get close to town, then I just ask HC for a new AO - and we switch targets.

What is the big deal?

Only someone who doesn’t have to place and remove AOs would agree with this as being accurate in any way, shape, or form.

 

I already outlined earlier why this is patently false quite clearly, but there’s a genuine lack of comprehension here or something.

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21 minutes ago, Capco said:

there’s a genuine lack of comprehension here or something.

it's nearly exclusive to people who want a more sim experience.

there were hours of downtime with the 3min FMS, the same guys loved it.

 

2 hours ago, augetout said:

That is a conclusion not based on evidence.  You have zero idea of who the poll splits are consisting of, and should not assert otherwise, especially when it fits neatly into your narrative seeking to denigrate those who disagree with you as being 'reenactors' whenever  possible.  It is disingenuous. 

 

S!

based on the views expressed in writing, it's clear the split is along the sim guys | gameplay guys.

 

2 hours ago, krazydog said:

Why does wveryone keep complaining about lack of action?  

AOs and DOs are up 24/7 on the server.

If one battle stops quickly, then a new one starts somewhere else in 5-10 minutes.

I have never found a problem getting into a fight in this game - EVER.

If all the FMS go down in an attack, then I just drive a new truck out to setup a new FMS.  If the defense is pushed out everywhere, and I can’t get close to town, then I just ask HC for a new AO - and we switch targets.

What is the big deal?

PS - We also need to stop blaming a specific game mechanic for lower population levels on the server:  WW2 Online is an old game.  Its amazing it is even still going today!  Nothing will bring the population levels back to the old days - (including new FRUs, going back town-based supply, new ewuipment, new textures, etc..).   Only WW2 Online 2.0 (a new game engine) will bring massive players back to this game.  We should all probably realise this by now.

we're complaining about the frequency of AO's dieing.

the quality of AO's also suffers:

  • camped FMS's
  • 1km+ spawns
  • never getting the town contested
  • a lack of replacement spawns when one goes down

they are all too common, but were not with the INF-FRU.

not complaining they exist. they're just too common, and they're boring

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I'm still amazed we had 3min build timers for as long as we did.  

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Cut the AO remove and place time in half would help.

Cut the town hot from 10 min to 5 min would help. (could maybe leave bunker 10 min)

Cut the capture times in half would help.

Cut the FMB build time to 30 sec probably marginally help.

Cut the distance FMB to enemy facility in half might help.

Silent infantry MS defying bridges - have to say no.  Much as I love infantry combat.

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1 hour ago, major0noob said:

based on the views expressed in writing, it's clear the split is along the sim guys | gameplay guys.

 

To begin with, the poll itself is too small of a sampling.  Those commenting with strong opinions on the thread are an even smaller sampling.  In no way shape or form is the poll a fair indication of the overall playerbase.  With all due respect to all comments, they are not fairly labeled as being indicative of the overall playerbase, either.  Thus, it is not clear that the split exists at all, let alone it being between 'sim guys/gameplay guys'.

 

S!

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3 hours ago, Capco said:

Krazydog:

"Why does wveryone keep complaining about lack of action?  

AOs and DOs are up 24/7 on the server.

If one battle stops quickly, then a new one starts somewhere else in 5-10 minutes.

I have never found a problem getting into a fight in this game - EVER.

If all the FMS go down in an attack, then I just drive a new truck out to setup a new FMS.  If the defense is pushed out everywhere, and I can’t get close to town, then I just ask HC for a new AO - and we switch targets."

 

---------------------

Only someone who doesn’t have to place and remove AOs would agree with this as being accurate in any way, shape, or form.

 

I already outlined earlier why this is patently false quite clearly, but there’s a genuine lack of comprehension here or something.

I place AOs / and remove them on average about 4-6 times per each night I play the game.

I very rarely faced the problems you describe.

Always at all times, I can and do provide fun and action to whatever numbers online with the current MSP setup (from 2 online to 100 or so (Honestly very rarely seen above 100 in the last 2 years on one side but even back in the day when many more where online I was able to do the same).  I use fake EWS... hvy fake EWS if i have to.. convoy attacks avoiding FB, para drops etc.

 

The introduction of INF FRUs a few years after implementation of TOEs made me unsub in 2012 for a few years.

I came back to see 2 things: The truck FRU was back and announcement was made to end the ToE . I was actually was so happy that I re-subbed about 2 years ago now! ToE is still here... but thank goodness INF FRU has not really come back (it is poking its way in with HC FRU :( and) the TOE Hybrid is still to be seen how town-supply centric it is( announcements are more on town side but u never know)

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with giving any inf ability to place MSPs... ( I made a post from my phone under ozsheila in this thread saying perhaps give the ability to underpop side to use some INF FRU for their AOs only) 

No lack of comprehension or side biased either as you suggest. 

We just have very different ways of playing/ persevering to create action it seems.

No offense, but I am not sure what gives you the authority to judge the comprehension levels of rest of us (who do place AOs and move them and manage supply) to not see what Krazydog says as accurate and to not have the right to disagree with you..   and funny thing is... me and Krazydog have plenty of healthy different view points as well on many other issues!

S!

 

Edited by potthead
I got a bit triggered here.. sorry :)
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6 minutes ago, potthead said:

I place AOs / and remove them on average about 4-6 times per each night I play the game.

I very rarely faced the problems you describe.

Always at all times, I can and do provide fun and action to whatever numbers online with the current MSP setup (from 2 online to 100 or so (Honestly very rarely seen above 100 in the last 2 years on one side but even back in the day when many more where online I was able to do the same).  I use fake EWS... hvy fake EWS if i have to.. convoy attacks avoiding FB, para drops etc.

 

The introduction of INF FRUs a few years after implementation of TOEs made me unsub in 2012 for a few years.

I came back to see 2 things: The truck FRU was back and announcement was made to end the ToE . I was actually was so happy that I re-subbed about 2 years ago now! ToE is still here... but thank goodness INF FRU has not really come back (it is poking its way in with HC FRU :( and) the TOE Hybrid is still to be seen how town-supply centric it is( announcements are more on town side but u never know)

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with giving any inf ability to place MSPs... ( I made a post from my phone under ozsheila in this thread saying perhaps give the ability to underpop side to use some INF FRU for their AOs only) 

No lack of comprehension or side biased either as you suggest. 

We just have very different ways of playing/ persevering to create action it seems.

No offense, but I am not sure what gives you the authority to judge the comprehension levels of rest of us (who do place AOs and move them and manage supply) to not see what Krazydog says as accurate and to not have the right to disagree with you..   and funny thing is... me and Krazydog have plenty of healthy different view points as well on many other issues!

S!

 

I don't think the Inf FRU was a bad a concept potthead.  More spawns mean more action.  I just think it needed to be limited and tweaked.  I think a system where we keep the FMS as is and give the Inf FRU to squads with no AT capability and the ability for only squad members to spawn from it would be useful. Maybe throw in a few other geographical restrictions, like must spawn it on the same side of the river as the origin or something.  Give it some proximity restrictions like must have somewhere around 3 to 5 squaddies to place it.  It would be a benefit to squads that way and would promote squad membership and teamwork.

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2 minutes ago, Capco said:

@potthead What about my math is incorrect?  Did you even read the post?

yes I did...twice actually.

Not sure which math you are referring to though.

This is how i read it in short: 

Setting up AOs is difficult with trucks... 

INF FRU will create more action because it is easier to setup. especially giving underpop side a chance to have attacks as well... (which again in principle i disagree with) .. underpop side should DEFEND well.. harass enemy, make them FAIL and then create their own pop... it takes TIME... a LOT of time sometimes... 

 

What I think I disagree on .. is I dont really like moving towards more INSTANT action.. I prefer to organise players, spend time talking to them, having a social ROLE PLAY...  

I was more replying to your answer to Krazydog and how only someone who does not have to place AOs can disagree with you on this case.. That triggered me to write a response..... :) I have a had toke now and no longer triggered. 

Please dont get me wrong... I by no means say you should agree with me, I am just saying.. there are ppl who place AOs that don't see it the way you do.. hope that makes sense. 

 

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2 minutes ago, potthead said:

yes I did...twice actually.

Not sure which math you are referring to though.

This is how i read it in short: 

Setting up AOs is difficult with trucks... 

INF FRU will create more action because it is easier to setup. especially giving underpop side a chance to have attacks as well... (which again in principle i disagree with) .. underpop side should DEFEND well.. harass enemy, make them FAIL and then create their own pop... it takes TIME... a LOT of time sometimes... 

 

What I think I disagree on .. is I dont really like moving towards more INSTANT action.. I prefer to organise players, spend time talking to them, having a social ROLE PLAY...  

I was more replying to your answer to Krazydog and how only someone who does not have to place AOs can disagree with you on this case.. That triggered me to write a response..... :) I have a had toke now and no longer triggered. 

Please dont get me wrong... I by no means say you should agree with me, I am just saying.. there are ppl who place AOs that don't see it the way you do.. hope that makes sense. 

 

It was on page 2, towards the bottom.

 

On 2/4/2019 at 3:17 PM, Capco said:

If an HC officers sets an AO, EWS gets set off, and the defense is out in the fields before the AO even activates, that AO is over the vast majority of the time.  It takes about 5 minutes for that AO to even go up after I issue the order, and another 10 minutes before I can issue the pull order, then another 5 minutes before that AO actually gets pulled.  And AOs are almost never pulled that quickly, so in reality, each failed AO removes AT MINIMUM 25 minutes of potential action in the game.   And do you think everyone immediately despawns once an AO is pulled?  Maybe if you're lucky, the vets do, but once the vets leave and the mission lead passes to the green tags, they generally have no idea what is going on and will often stay spawned in an area with zero going on, and never play the game again.  

S!

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3 minutes ago, minky said:

I don't think the Inf FRU was a bad a concept potthead.  More spawns mean more action.  I just think it needed to be limited and tweaked.  I think a system where we keep the FMS as is and give the Inf FRU to squads with no AT capability and the ability for only squad members to spawn from it would be useful. Maybe throw in a few other geographical restrictions, like must spawn it on the same side of the river as the origin or something.  Give it some proximity restrictions like must have somewhere around 3 to 5 squaddies to place it.  It would be a benefit to squads that way and would promote squad membership and teamwork.

Just my pecection again .. I did not like it.. 

Even take away the gameyness of ATG/ Tank  being sapped etc 

My issue was it fragmented action... 

I dont see 10 missions with 10 MSPs being a GOOD thing necceasirly..

I prefer to see 1 Mission .... with 3 trucks in there that are under the command of the mission leader who coordinated the team (squad or not) to be at the locations of the terrain where it makes tactical or strategic sense.

the most fun operations that I tend to run, are when I have 2-3 trucks of my own or on voice comms with, along with some tanks and ATGs.. and I direct the flow of ALL inf on the AO with moving MSP in the SAME misison

to have players(inf) where it makes most use and is MOST fun for them.

I prefer to see cohesion of action consolidated in LESS missions... (like BlitzKader mission on Axis side, or 7th Ast on Allied side)  

 

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@pottheadIn regards to your sentiment about taking time with things in the game versus more action, this is the way I see it.

 

I personally don't mind that it takes a long time for some things in this game.  They can be very rewarding.  Driving a truck up from a backline navy town for extra supply, doing a long RDP run, or setting up a naval invasion, I too enjoy the preparation and organization behind it.

 

But the thing is, a lot of people DO mind.  And if there's one constant truth in this game, it's that the game is better with more players playing.  If we want more players, we need more action.  That's really the crux of how I see it.  

 

I want more bodies in this game.  I want to see it thrive.  I think things like this will help.

 

S!

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