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Capco

The FMS, the Light Infantry FRU, and You

Mission Leader FRUs   62 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we expand/reintroduce the Infantry-based FRU?

    • Yes (LMG allowed)
      19
    • Yes (LMG restricted)
      10
    • No
      33

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

203 posts in this topic

defenders spawn 10 sec from CP's, have instant tank support, AI, and EWS...

rivers will still stop armour, making any inf that get across easily cut. with the inf-FRU people could stay across a river. the FMS ends action when it goes down

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also, if as ATG you died to an infantry, why would you push back out to the same area again without either infantry or tank support? what happened to combined arms?

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3 hours ago, madrebel said:

also, if as ATG you died to an infantry, why would you push back out to the same area again without either infantry or tank support? what happened to combined arms?

U didn't read did ya, I said report came in INF killed. It pays to read everything and not just have a knee jerk reaction to what was said and what you wanted to read and plain and simple over look.

 

@Capco  not once have I set up a D and waited for the Attackers to come , which in real was the case the Defenders were well dug in and had pretty much the approaches covered. 

In this game the Attack is the catalyst and the Defenders are the reaction to said Attack. Like I pointed out upside for defenders is that they don't have to travel as far.

But we can change the game if you want to, and have the Allies attack but the Defenders get 30 min to set up prior cause remember the defenders were always dug in and had a perimeter set.

I doubt the Allies would like that one bit cause the kill with the 88s would skyrocket. 

 

And it would be no different for Axis Armor cause Allies would have every available Matilda in every strategic spot .

 

This will be my last post , I gave other ideas and in my eyes better alternatives then to  expanding the FRU . 

CRS can take it which ever way they want , but if they think expanding it is the way to go then my sub will run out sooner or later . 

Towns are being taken as 159 campaign showed and that was with FMS and Rifle only Frus. I don't think anymore needs to be pointed out then that fact.

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in the other thread they touched on the lack of  leadership tools

the FMS is a prime example of this: it's a strategic tool, the FRU was a tactical tool

 

the FMS has inhered the same problems as the glass FB's; once it's gone or compromised the tactical layer of gameplay ends

it has happened often enough to drive leaders away

Edited by major0noob

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When they switched from the inf fru to truck fru i do remember defending cps became boring, due to less ei getting through to them.  I became less inclined to defend them after a while.  Perhaps others did the same, which explains why it is like pulling teeth to get anyone to defend a spawn.   But i am not so sure switching back now is a good idea.  A limited fru is ok, but one that allows an endless stream of LMGs to come charging into a spawn is not really something i want to see happen again.

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FMS should kept and paired with VMS to create player-made FB-lites. Infantry spawns should be re-introduced as a buffer between the town and FMS/VMS.

Edited by knucks

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So, what we have right now is:

- Inf fru failed in the past. No point of repeating again the same mistakes

- Vehicle placed MS (FMS) are apparently not enough because of the difficulty of placing them close to target.

So, why not trying something different, something in between? 

Really good options have been posted here to offer a modified Inf fru that corrects what made them fail in the past.

A few examples of ideas given in this thread:

- Can only be placed at a maximum distance from the FMS and of course no closer than X distance from enemy facility. This way you ensure that they will not be placed INSIDE town. This system shows in field progression. 

- Can only be placed by either ML or HC supported by 2 or 3 other inf close by. This will encourage team work around the ML. Is not just one lonely inf sneaking behind defense lines. It is going to be 3 or 4. IMO this would even solve the "river" thing because if 3 or 4 guys are able to cross the river to set an Inf Ms then they deserve it.

- we can place a limit on what kind of weapons or even amount of inf are going to spawn from the Inf Ms.

If somebody is afraid about the attackers setting everything before even the defenders are out there ("river" thing), another limitation is that an MS to a target can not be placed until the AO order is given.

and so on.....

I'm not afraid to try new things especially if present one is not working. Been here since 2004 and seen all kind of changes. I will keep on supporting the game and specially this team because they are trying their best.

My two cents.

Edited by piska250
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7 hours ago, piska250 said:

So, what we have right now is:

- Inf fru failed in the past. No point of repeating again the same mistakes

- Vehicle placed MS (FMS) are apparently not enough because of the difficulty of placing them close to target.

So, why not trying something different, something in between? 

Really good options have been posted here to offer a modified Inf fru that corrects what made them fail in the past.

A few examples of ideas given in this thread:

- Can only be placed at a maximum distance from the FMS and of course no closer than X distance from enemy facility. This way you ensure that they will not be placed INSIDE town. This system shows in field progression. 

- Can only be placed by either ML or HC supported by 2 or 3 other inf close by. This will encourage team work around the ML. Is not just one lonely inf sneaking behind defense lines. It is going to be 3 or 4. IMO this would even solve the "river" thing because if 3 or 4 guys are able to cross the river to set an Inf Ms then they deserve it.

- we can place a limit on what kind of weapons or even amount of inf are going to spawn from the Inf Ms.

If somebody is afraid about the attackers setting everything before even the defenders are out there ("river" thing), another limitation is that an MS to a target can not be placed until the AO order is given.

and so on.....

I'm not afraid to try new things especially if present one is not working. Been here since 2004 and seen all kind of changes. I will keep on supporting the game and specially this team because they are trying their best.

My two cents.

My concern is this will lead us exactly where this thread began.

Infantry FRU was dead and buried. Then it was suddenly reintroduced with not a whole lot of discussion regarding its implications. Now there are calls to expand it to non-HC and allow SMGs to spawn. What is going to be the next call? Similarly you let them get placed by 4 infantry as a team anywhere, the next thread is going to be, "you know, it would be easier if we only needed 2 to place" quickly followed by it going down to one and we are back at square 1. It is only natural human nature that players who predominantly play infantry will want a spawn point that gives them everything and will work hard to achieve that (this thread is an example of that).

There are simply too many ways to game the FRU and destroy the vehicle game. The FMS combined with Depot spawning works fine and is something that is blocked by natural obstacles and choke-points in game while the FRU has none of those limitation. Not to mention the whole behind-the-lines spawning, but thats an issue with both the FMS and the FRU (but exacerbate several fold by the FRU).

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I say no to INF MS.

Rather, cut MS build time in half, cut base capture time in half, remove over pop capture penalty (keep under pop enhancement for shorter time) and fix the 'EnterWolrd' bug, or remove SD until that bug can be fixed.

One way I might be able to support an INF MS, is that you have to spawn from a FMS first, and it can be placed no further than 300m (exact number not sure, maybe 400? 500?) from the FMS.  This would help promote moving the MS up as you capture ground towards town.  So, place FMS 750m out, start attack, capture CP, now can set an MS (not FMS) off that FMS 450m away from town- helping infantry get to town faster for attacker, w/o having to drive new truck. (and the INF MS could not be placed until town contested)

Edited by delems
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9 minutes ago, delems said:

So, place FMS 750m out, start attack, capture CP, now can set an MS (not FMS) off that FMS 450m away from town- helping infantry get to town faster for attacker, w/o having to drive new truck.

I think this would make everyone happy and I've always supported it.  Unfortunately it will take some coding.  

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^^^Just guessing but that'd probably be one routine and a pretty quick and easy check.

Another option would be for the inf FRU to be able to be placed only between the FB and town. Semi circle, or parabolic area in front of the town where you can place. Then the atgs and aaas feel a little safer getting out of the veh spawn and setting up. You want to go back door, you gotta take the loud old truck; inf FRU, front door only.

Course that would take coding too, and probably a little bit more, more math anyway.

 

Edited by blggles

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11 hours ago, piska250 said:

- Inf fru failed in the past. No point of repeating again the same mistakes

yeah but the FMS is failing harder. there are prime-times with no FMS's and the rest of the TZ's are even worse

then there's the fact that the inf-FRU was able to keep a AO up and contested more than the FMS

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Is the game able to stop a fru from bring placed behind enemy lines with a RIVER between the two? This is the only problem I have with them. I am not sure whether the code will check for this. 

No sappers, rpats, etc and I am good with them. ANYTHING to get the gameplay flowing again !!

 

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20 hours ago, dropbear said:

Is the game able to stop a fru from bring placed behind enemy lines with a RIVER between the two? This is the only problem I have with them. I am not sure whether the code will check for this. 

No sappers, rpats, etc and I am good with them. ANYTHING to get the gameplay flowing again !!

 

not currently - i think we'll be limited to distance variables only.

 

Already mentioned:

Cannot deploy further than X meter from a friendly AB/CP/FB/FMS - whichever is closer. Let's put a number on this how about 300m?

Cannot deploy closer than X from an enemy AB/CP/FB/FMS - although if you check for enemy FMS this is a way to get rough estimates as to where enemy FMS is, so maybe don't have this? As for number, this needs to be a lower number than the FMS IMO. If FMS = X then FRU= X-100m?

Cannot deploy more than X FRU per AO. Not global AO but the AO you're on, let's say 2 for now.

Cannot spawn RPATs, Sappers, or ATRs. Thematically Mortars shouldn't be allowed either given the weight similarities but mortars are so ineffective idk that anyone would have an issue with mortars.

 

Keeping that first number relatively low pretty much prevents across river deployment options. @Merlin51 how wide are rivers? Feels like about 50m. Then each river bank is typically fairly clear for another 30 or so meters yes? Id there a way to detect river banks? If there are then adding another check to both the FMS and the FRU could further restrict.

Cannot deploy FMS closer than X from river bank, cannot deploy FRU closer than X from river bank. If that were say 200m for the FMS, with a 300m max distance for the FRU, and additionally, no closer than 150m from a river bank for the FRU then you're essentially 100% preventing the FRU being deployed across a river.

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I really can not support Infantry placed FRUs....

This is a game killer.. It very nearly did the job the first time...

All this cool new stuff as well as 1.36 in the pipe and we are going down this HELL hole again....?

Sacrificing all other branches of play for a narrow, ill-conceived, niche component of infantry play for some perceived or imagined advantage?

There are other games that offer insta combat, not this one...

Also too many changes at once and how will you ever determine what is better, worse, working not working....?

Cheers Monty

 

 

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14 minutes ago, montyuno said:

I really can not support Infantry placed FRUs....

This is a game killer.. It very nearly did the job the first time...

All this cool new stuff as well as 1.36 in the pipe and we are going down this HELL hole again....?

Sacrificing all other branches of play for a narrow, ill-conceived, niche component of infantry play for some perceived or imagined advantage?

There are other games that offer insta combat, not this one...

Also too many changes at once and how will you ever determine what is better, worse, working not working....?

Cheers Monty

 

 

It’s interesting that the only unit that can capture anything and the most prevalent unit in the war is a “narrow niche component”. At some point you are better off taking infantry out of the game and just allowing tanks to pull up next to CPs to capture. That actually comes off better than a few sporadic infantry trying to capture a town. It seems to me that one of the cited reasons the rats went down the road they did on the new TOE was feedback from players on lack of infantry play. The rats sought to force infantry play by brigade differentiations. Be careful what you wish for. There are other games that offer solid WWII infantry combat. All with better graphics, more realistic terrain, and more realistic weapon handling. Are you seriously suggesting it would be better for the people who are tired of a lack of infantry action in WWIIOL just leave the game and go elsewhere?  Is that really what you want?

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The latest info I've heard is that infantry is the most popular gameplay-type here.

Obviously the above two posters like armor gameplay and think the game should be more armor-gameplay-centric. 

It's a mistake, though, to characterize any of WWIIOL's gameplay-types as "niche". AFAIK, CRS's original commitment that WWIIOL was a combined arms game remains in place.

In any case, it would be odd for a game company that's working hard to be commercially viable, to diminish or even remove its most popular gameplay-type.

 

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I think its important to distinguish between most prevalent unit used and most popular unit used. I play infantry the vast majority of the time, I enjoy it, but there are things I enjoy more. But I spawn it because that is the tool you need to win battles and move the map. Boots matter, the rest is gravy. It is only natural in a competitive game where infantry hold the keys to the kingdom everyone will be using it.

I think the point @montyuno was trying to raise is that players don't seek out WWIIOL because of infantry combat. But rather they seek out WWIIOL for the combined arms aspect, and by catering to the infantry via the FRU you can do serious damage to the vehicle game, thereby decreasing the use of combined arms, and eliminating the one hook that WWIIOL. All of a sudden a prospective player logs in and finds out it is an infantry slugfest in town and quickly moves away to PS or BF due to their superior graphics and infantry play in a map that is effectively the same size as our cities.

I am of the opinion that when all branches do well, the entire playerbase grows and does well. The Infantry FRU is great for attacking infantry, but it pretty much ruins the game for everyone else.

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the faults of the FRU are lesser than the FMS's. if the FRU is a game killer, what are the FMS's dead AO's?

as a tanker, the FMS is just too easy to camp/cut/deny. the ZoC effort needed to suppress it is lopsided compared to the ZoC effort to build and hold.

 

 

lesser of 2 evils... and the dev resources are already done for the FRU.

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I simply don't follow the reasoning behind peoples issues with the infantry fru. The enemy is ALREADY in your town, it is simply another way to get boots on the ground.

Both sides don't want ninja sappers etc..so be it. Restrict fms from spawning any atg capability and let them spawn from the truck made fms.  Sensible restrictions of where we can spawn them gives the defenders a KNOWN radius of engagement..

All I want is the ability to have a FIGHT,  rather than log to boredom. Last three evening I have logged in...no HC for hours, dead AOs, and axis capping towns in 20 mins.

THIS IS NOT HOW A COMPANY MAKES $$$$!

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4 minutes ago, jet2019 said:

I simply don't follow the reasoning behind peoples issues with the infantry fru. The enemy is ALREADY in your town, it is simply another way to get boots on the ground.

Both sides don't want ninja sappers etc..so be it. Restrict fms from spawning any atg capability and let them spawn from the truck made fms.  Sensible restrictions of where we can spawn them gives the defenders a KNOWN radius of engagement..

All I want is the ability to have a FIGHT,  rather than log to boredom. Last three evening I have logged in...no HC for hours, dead AOs, and axis capping towns in 20 mins.

THIS IS NOT HOW A COMPANY MAKES $$$$!

note how many times the "no" posts include irrational fears that don't even attempt to engage the suggested changes. they 'know' it will destroy the tank game ... despite the stated restrictions. not entirely sure how they arrived at that 'knowledge' but they 'know it'.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, madrebel said:

note how many times the "no" posts include irrational fears that don't even attempt to engage the suggested changes. they 'know' it will destroy the tank game ... despite the stated restrictions. not entirely sure how they arrived at that 'knowledge' but they 'know it'.

It's beyond frustrating.  

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Infantry placed FRU without the Anti Tank capable infantry is a win win.

Would liven the game up a bit:)

 

 

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1 hour ago, jet2019 said:

All I want is the ability to have a FIGHT,  rather than log to boredom.

yes, yes and more yesS!

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