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blggles

Defensive Position Flag / Trench Flag

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Defensive Position Flag

There are a number of different capture buildings in game. This idea is for yet another that would represent a wartime defensive position more akin to what folks might expect to be defending rather than the common flag building.

The overwhelming refrain ingame is "GET IN THE FLAG BUILDING!" "DEFEND THE FLAGS", "DEFEND THE SPAWN!". This usually constitutes either sitting blind in the capture building waiting on attackers, or sitting outside the building staring at one side of it to kill EI before they enter. Defending a capture point in this game can thus be a very limited experience, yet it must be done to win, and so can occupy a great deal of a player's ingame time.

When players install the game they are more probably expecting to be defending the line, looking out on the battlefield from their foxhole or trench, and actively engaging the enemy as they try and advance. In game they may of course take up a position in front of a town or facility, face the battlefield, and do just that. The problem is, attackers do not have to engage, and if they sneak through the town to the flag building, they may 'capture' a facility without engaging the defense at all.

The idea here is to add a defensive-works capture point that allows defenders to both actively defend a flag while at the same time looking out on the battlefield with potential to engage the enemy from distance as they attack, which would probably be a more gratifying defensive duty to pull for the average player, and might lead to better fights, less whack-a-mole.

Another player posted the idea of a trench works FMS:

iXXQI5i.png

The proposal here is to simply take this model, put a flag on it, and use it for the capture point depending on the facility. Defending a flag from such a position would allow players to be more actively engaged in the battle.

Consider an installation like the factory on the west side of Bouillon. Here is the view westwards:

XP0syyV.png

Remove the atg nests, place this flag position looking out upon the western flank of town, and now pulling guard duty at this facility constitutes holding the line, with the ability to partake in the battle with an lmg or atr or whatever, out hundreds of meters. Of course, one may currently use an lmg from the factory buildings and engage nme out hundreds of meters, the difference here being that with this defensive position flag the attackers can no longer sneak the cap from under the defense, but must overrun the position. Hopefully, this would make capping such positions more of a broad based fight for area control since the position, though offering cover, is somewhat exposed, and less accessible to mole tactics.

Obviously, such positions would be inappropriate for most spawnable depots, as the trench wouldn't be proper in a city, and might be impossible to take with spawners looking down into it from the spawn building. But with facilities such as the above mentioned factory, it may add greater realism, a more intense and interesting fight, and more of what players expect, to gameplay.

And yes, alas, players would sneak around and snipe at the defenders in their trench from the factories behind them, but what are ya gunna do? They'd still have to storm the position across open ground in order to cap.

Of note: if you model this player's trench suggestion you potentially get a twofer - a cool FMS along with a novel flag position, and heck, maybe just a cool PPO as well - a threefer!
 

Edited by blggles

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Great idea! I'd also like to see hill flags, like the one south of Haybes, which you have to cap before setting FMS.

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Being able to sneak around undefeated defenses and "capture" has always been silly. 

But any defensive position that can be spotted from long range will be a shell magnet.

Edited by jwilly

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Thats called atmosphere...

Your right. Though I still like the idea over the flag building, it'd probably be best if the terrain out front wasn't more than 2 or 3 hundred yards to the next hedgerow. Then again, we could welcome the shelling and just relabel the game wwI online. 

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You know, if the example here were to become a no-mans land because of long range bombardment, players could still defend it from behind and above. It'd be a piece of land you have to push across in order to cap. Bit like a tug of war, though pushing instead of pulling. Dunno that that would be a bad thing.

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Not sure how I feel about a trench flag to capture but I do think something other than the standard cp buildings would be cool, and maybe some out of town objectives as well, like on a hill or in a forest or something 

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I think most folks would like to see countryside objectives. Personally I'd like to see any countryside extension of the defense around a CP be player set so it might vary from battle to battle.

And a forest CP, where you'd have to capture the route through one of the big forests would be cool. And perhaps a very appropriate place for trench flags. The FB inf and veh spawns could be used for the depots.

Heck, a cappable FB with a trench flag on the western side, and a trench flag on the eastern side might be interesting.

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cappable FB now that could be interesting.  And the forest combat: limited vehicle movement, infantry focused, definitely different tactics than town/city 

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It would be interesting to see how dense a forest in game could be made without overwhelming today's graphics cards.

Edited by blggles

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Don't improve gameplay by adding new types of points for one man to capture. That's always been unreal, and will continue to be.

Improve gameplay by making capture a matter of excluding enemy troop units from a managable area around the immediate place of value...a unit being a pop-dependent number of troops...say three at low pop.

The fighting in Stalingrad over the Tractor Works wasn't about the General Manager's desk. It was about the immediately surrounding streets that provided access. 

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I like this idea especially since places the fight outside of the cities and means you have to take control on the "trench" before you can cap the CPs.

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6 hours ago, jwilly said:

Don't improve gameplay by adding new types of points for one man to capture. That's always been unreal, and will continue to be.

Improve gameplay by making capture a matter of excluding enemy troop units from a managable area around the immediate place of value...a unit being a pop-dependent number of troops...say three at low pop.

The fighting in Stalingrad over the Tractor Works wasn't about the General Manager's desk. It was about the immediately surrounding streets that provided access. 

There it is. You have defined the ideal, only now you must deal with the real. The question for the game's developers would be how to get there from here, especially when hindered by very limited resources. And one might ask oneself in addition, are there any interim options that take us part way towards the ideal, that might improve the player experience for the time being. Perhaps a simple change in the character of certain capture points, able to be quickly implemented by an artist and the terrain squad, might also change the character of the fight thereabouts in a positive way. A more exposed position, for instance, might lead to a greater likelihood that the area surrounding the position  - the streets surrounding the tractor works - will need to be cleared in order to secure the location. A ZOC would take some coding, an effective ZOC not necessarily, yet they are the same thing, effectively.

It was in fact the general manager's desk they were fighting over at Stalingrad. The lower drawer is where he kept his stash of premium vodka. If you want to learn more I'd recommend Nozuchbuk's "The Desk of Ivan Kropotkin". 

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