kgwiking

S! OKW and my experience in C#159

15 posts in this topic

For yet unknown reasons I logged into WWIIOL for the first time after 5 years and thought that it might be interesting for the new OKW to have the impression of a veteran returning after many years of absence - 2001-2009 I played at least 5 times every week , 2010 - 2012 playing 2 or 3 times per month and not playing at all after 2013 . In this 159 Campaign I played every day during the last 20 days .

 

First the positive .

I was pleasantly surprised by the quality and quantity of the OKW . Quality has nothing to envy to the great years 2001-2006 but even quantitatively there has always been an active map OIC and actually often OKW officers took the attack command on the front . Hats off for you , I would have thought that OKW was already ghost town .

Unfortunately the positive stops already here and everything else was negative

First and vastly most important is that there are no battles anymore . We (Euro time anywhere between 14:00 - 00:00) mostly had 1 AO and 1 DO . Very rarely 2 AO and 1 DO . I have not seen a single time more . Now for the P1 AOs I have counted the people in the missions . Most I have seen was around 30 and as the balance was even or slight overpop , that means that the Allied were also 30 or slightly less . This was a maximum because on an average AO it was around 15-20 rather than 30 . This had for consequence that over the 20 days , I have seen and killed some 3 ennemy tanks , a few ATGs and 2 dozens or so EI , mostly sappers and bazookas going after our heavies . Most of the time one is staring at bushes or buildings and seeing no ennemy .

WWIIOL is no more combined arms combat . Panzer columns with 30-40 Panzers obliterating everything to finish off a town are apparently a thing of the past and it made me very sad . The 20-30 attacking Axis were up  to 90 % infantery . When there were 2 or 3 Panzers joining the fight it was cause for celebration - mostly there were none or those who tried were bazooked , sapped , ATGed , bombed , ambushed already on the way to town . Massive Panzer support for infantery assaulting a spawnable is also a thing of the past . As for the Luftwaffe it doesn't exist anymore . Sometimes I saw 1 or 2 fighters coming to perturb a little the allied 3 or 4 EA on deck straffing what they could (this AQ part didn't change since 2001 :)) but mostly there was Nothing . I have not seen a single Stuka , Me110 or He 111 in 20 days .

Ah yes , there is no towing service anymore either . No more calls "Tow available at FB" and no more trucks dragging behind them a chaotically jumping line of 10 or 15 Flaks/PAKs .

Besides a snipe fest around CPs , Nothing else happens anywhere . This was especially striking for the FBs . In the past an attack would be over in 5 minutes because an undefended FB would have been immediately blown up . Here both Allied and Axis FBs were Eternal . Sometimes I spawned a Flak on FB to (mildly) annoy the deck straffing EA but I have not seen a single Allied attempt to blow an FB . Symmetrically at one point we had an Opportunity to pocket an Allied Division around Kortrijk but for that we needed to blow 2 ennemy FBs . Apparently despite the fact that the Allied didn't defend their FBs , there were not enough people to blow them and so the Allied Division was saved .

Summary

Perhaps the C159 was not a typical Campaign , I couldn't say . But if it was then WWIIOL is reduced to a close quarters infantery fight around one or 2 CPs . Tank combat is inexistent and what is left is basically of the type ambusher vs ambushed so that the killer waits for  ages untill Something drives around and the killed never knows what killed him . Air combat is definitively dead - Luftwaffe doesn't fly and those few Allied who still fly have in 90 % the purpose of straffing (or Panzer bombing) on deck . The biggest fights are of the type 30 vs 30 what is at the level of a first person shooter (like WoT or CS) . For me the biggest interest in WWIIOL has always been team work , huge Squads , the command at strategical level (OKW) and at the tactical level (Squad) . As neither of these seems to have survived because of the lack of players , I do not think that I will retry to play WWIIOL after this C159 experience anymore .

Good luck and S!

 

vonik

KGW CO (ret)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last campaign the Rats decided to put Zero Axis tanks in the infantry brigs besides 2 or 4 stugs and some 232s   The allied inf brigs had R35s and Panhards  and lots of people Hated it.. They put more spawn list out like that there will be some more pissed off tankers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

been arguing about the tiny battles for a year now (same TZ). there were times when every AO/DO was dead with over 50 people online

there's been a focus to get the battle outside of town, unfortunately it forces battles 500m from town to fail.

8 minutes ago, rebel357 said:

Last campaign the Rats decided to put Zero Axis tanks in the infantry brigs besides 2 or 4 stugs and some 232s   The allied inf brigs had R35s and Panhards  and lots of people Hated it.. They put more spawn list out like that there will be some more pissed off tankers.

BMBM said the allies get more matties to make up for axis half tracks... this should tell you enough about how out of touch the rats are these days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, rebel357 said:

Last campaign the Rats decided to put Zero Axis tanks in the infantry brigs besides 2 or 4 stugs and some 232s   The allied inf brigs had R35s and Panhards  and lots of people Hated it.. They put more spawn list out like that there will be some more pissed off tankers.

Well just for the record , I found Nothing wrong with the spawn lists . As most P1 AOs used 2 or 3 FBs, the OKW plans and the map OICs always had the intelligence to have at least 1 Pz brigade in attack . Consequence was that there was ALWAYS an almost full Panzer spawn list . If no Panzers were joining the fight, it was not because the spawn lists were empty but because there were no ETs to be fought and because a lonely Panzer generally didn't survive the drive to town (AQ, sappers, bazookas, ATGs) .

The Panzers in an Inf brigade were also enough to provide an efficient anti tank force - 3 Stugs G covered by 2 or 3 232 are more than enough to suppress any ennemy attempt to use armor especially as the Allied were rarely using tanks for other purpose than ambush . Basically there were always Stugs and 232 available even in Inf brigades . In RL it would make sense to have Stugs in Inf brigades because they would give the necessary ATG support but in WWIIOL their lack of MG and the lack of ET concentrations makes them totally useless in town fights .

Of course all Tigers were dead within minutes but that is Something that always happened since Day 1 of their introduction . I never understood the presence of Tigers in WWIIOL - a Tiger is an armor superiority tool but absolutely not an infantery support tool . The nature of the fights in WWIIOL being now exclusively small infantery skirmishes Inside and in immediate vicinity of towns makes Tigers useless because they have nowhere a Panzergelände with view over 1 k where they would shine against any ET concentrations  . The Allied have a tank spawn list much better adapted to WWIIOL because Mats , Churchs , Chars and Shermans are excellent close infantery support Tools despite the fact that they are (with the exception of the T0 Mat) at best average ATG Tools .

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, major0noob said:

BMBM said the allies get more matties to make up for axis half tracks... this should tell you enough about how out of touch the rats are these days

Er no, I said the 88s and the HTs required to tow them had to be balanced by allied infantry tanks. For this new campaign there are less 88s, less HTs and more panzers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the end it all comes down to a lack of numbers in the game. The reasons are several; A high monthly fee, some outdated graphics, irregular operations with respect to ballistics (immortal ets no matter how hard they are hit), decompensation, according to some, between the material of one side or the other (both sides say the same thing) ... I am afraid that until this does not improve, we will not feel what we lived for years. I think this is more priority than introducing new material.

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully you stick around for a few more campaigns. I was much like you on the fence and while we aren't anywhere near 2005 level numbers and gameplay I've seen lots of improvement and personally been having fun where in past times I came back to try things out the opposite was true. 

S!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, kgwiking said:

First and vastly most important is that there are no battles anymore . We (Euro time anywhere between 14:00 - 00:00) mostly had 1 AO and 1 DO . Very rarely 2 AO and 1 DO . I have not seen a single time more . Now for the P1 AOs I have counted the people in the missions . Most I have seen was around 30 and as the balance was even or slight overpop , that means that the Allied were also 30 or slightly less . This was a maximum because on an average AO it was around 15-20 rather than 30 . This had for consequence that over the 20 days , I have seen and killed some 3 ennemy tanks , a few ATGs and 2 dozens or so EI , mostly sappers and bazookas going after our heavies . Most of the time one is staring at bushes or buildings and seeing no ennemy .

Yes the biggest value of WW2online was that it was active 24/7, so if you had a weird schedule or rotating work shifts you could log on at odd hours and always see action. That compensated somewhat for the abnormally high price. I used to log on "early" and play with the euros, other times I would log on late at night and play with the rest of US prime. Paying for a monthly subscription was actually a month of activity. 1 AO was forced in supposedly as something that would only apply to extremely low-populated times, but now it's a 1-AO server the entire day with brief exceptions. With special rules as well. So I see mandatory down periods when switching AOs, and long times when the map is technically active but gameplay at a stalemate. Can't even blow FBs in the off-hours anymore like you used to in order to get some new action set up.

19 hours ago, kgwiking said:

WWIIOL is no more combined arms combat . Panzer columns with 30-40 Panzers obliterating everything to finish off a town are apparently a thing of the past and it made me very sad . The 20-30 attacking Axis were up  to 90 % infantery . When there were 2 or 3 Panzers joining the fight it was cause for celebration - mostly there were none or those who tried were bazooked , sapped , ATGed , bombed , ambushed already on the way to town . Massive Panzer support for infantery assaulting a spawnable is also a thing of the past . As for the Luftwaffe it doesn't exist anymore . Sometimes I saw 1 or 2 fighters coming to perturb a little the allied 3 or 4 EA on deck straffing what they could (this AQ part didn't change since 2001 :)) but mostly there was Nothing . I have not seen a single Stuka , Me110 or He 111 in 20 days .

Ah yes , there is no towing service anymore either . No more calls "Tow available at FB" and no more trucks dragging behind them a chaotically jumping line of 10 or 15 Flaks/PAKs .

At a major town like Sedan there would be 50 players between the ATG line, the flak trap, the FB defenders, and the initial infantry attackers. Now there's not that many players on the whole side. The only way to have a hope of capturing a town is to spawn infantry, then spawn other units only when you absolutely need them. And almost none of the town layouts have changed despite the dramatic drop in players; a two AB river town was a very difficult place to attack back with the old population levels, and it's practically guaranteed to hold now unless the defender just doesn't show up.

 

I was just at Carignan and there are barely a dozen axis attacking, for a 2-armybase town. All infantry. With the old pop if you had half the town captured and drained them for 20 minutes the battle would eventually shift as either reinforcements got teleported in, or the attacker made a final push with tanks. There's no need for that now and I just kill the same players over and over again, and they keep respawning as there's so much supplies and if they don't get me the 2nd time they'll get me the 12th. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose it boils down to the decade old argument between choke-point capture, and area-of-control capture.

Jamming whatever numbers into a CP just makes it another shoe-box twitch shooter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎05‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 8:31 PM, aismov said:

Hopefully you stick around for a few more campaigns. I was much like you on the fence and while we aren't anywhere near 2005 level numbers and gameplay I've seen lots of improvement and personally been having fun where in past times I came back to try things out the opposite was true. 

S!

 

Sorry Aismov but no . For the simplest and most universal reason why people don't play a game - it is not fun . I have been monitoring the player numbers since the day when CRS allowed to sample TOMs and I remember when the number per side dropped for the first time below 200 per side at peak - I think it was around 2006 . Back then I analysed a few Campaigns and posted that the WWIIOL concept would become unplayable if/when the number of players per side dropped below approximately 100 at peak .

The reason was quite simple - approximately below 100 per side at peak is the moment where not more than 1 AO and 1 DO can be sustained over 24 hours (with TZ3 being already too low) while still having reasonable numbers in all 3 branches (air, infantery , Panzers) e.g approximately 60 players attacking and 40 players defending at peak . And there is a huge qualitative difference between a 1 AO/DO game and an N (N>1) AO/DO game . A 1 AO/DO game is just a 1st person shooter with no tactical and strategical component . But it was obvious since Day 1 in 2001 that the WWIIOL concept was anything but a 1st person shooter simply because the map was very large (so the player density was very low) and the boring downtime (driving , towing , FRU setting , FB and AB defending) was quite large too so that it only made sense when there were enough people to "sacrify" a few dozens of them for these boring tasks .

Now what I experienced in 159 was that we were already far below this fateful 100 per side limit (I'd say there were 40-50 per side at peak) and I saw that my estimate from 10 years ago was indeed approximately right . Every gaming session was basically a 1st person shooter with a handful of solo infantery capping and recapping CPs for a few hours at town X followed by the same thing at town Y and then back to X or to Z . Even the infamous AQ was reduced to 1 - 2 lawn mowing Spits  desperately looking for something to shoot at :) For the sake of the good old times I would have wished that it was not so but it was .

Unfortunately I have not the magical solution to multiply the player numbers by at least 3 so that this game is no more for me .

 

S!

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^is right. At some point this game offers nothing over other FPS when the population numbers are that of a server from the average FPS. Combined arms is where WWII shines and without the numbers then roles aren't getting filled, certain scenarios become unviable and you lose vast portions of the playable game. New content isn't going to attract people if that content is dead at the door due to unsustainable playercount.

To be honest, I thought CRS was going to use Steam more to their advantage. No doubt we had all the exposure from the big youtubers. But what happened? Lets look at the steam charts https://steamcharts.com/app/251950
2 months of solid playerbase and then steep drop off. My guess is the initial wave of people played until their trial expired, and left shortly after.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely agree with the player number sentiment @kgwikingand Knucks. At a certain player number each side has the luxury to do things like devote manpower to RDP, para drops, ATG, etc. but at a certain level you simply need every available soldier to man a rifle and get down in the trenches.

Although the steam charts don't say everything (my own best guess is that maybe 20% of players are from Steam at any given time but I don't have any data to back that up), there has been a steady uptrend in players that past 6 months.

I think we are all looking for a solution and helpfully 1.36 with new equipment, terrain, fixes, and most important of all changes to capture timers to make attacks easier this will continue the positive trend.

Anyone know how much it would cost to hire 50 RPG gold miners a month from China to act as cannon fodder? :P

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, aismov said:

there has been a steady uptrend in players that past 6 months.

there has been more people leaving in the past 18 months though

 

3 hours ago, kgwiking said:

For the simplest and most universal reason why people don't play a game - it is not fun .

^^^ doesn't get the attention it deserves.

hell, with the 14 matties vs 232/3B, the attitude disregarding fun is getting worse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1944 battles with ALL the toys and folks will play more and new players will join.

 

I guarantee it I will even donate 100 if the numbers bear this out for one map. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.