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      Hells Gate   03/24/2019

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      Date: 3/30/19 Time: 11:00 AM Server time/ 12:00pm EST/ 1600 GMT
potthead

Numbers / Overpop / Time on Mission / Player engagement : A Potthead Theory

98 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Kilemall said:

To quote HG, 'this is a game of relationships'. 

And that is WHY I love this game! (and love you guys!) 

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22 hours ago, major0noob said:

they get bored and log...

make the game fun then let teamwork and leadership happen naturally

 

my squad XO (leadership) and a bunch of squadmates (teamwork) quit, from simple boredom. why is this soo hard for the rats and volunteers to comprehend?

was his leadership and their teamwork garbage?

Same here. I see a lot of my squadies unsubbing with all the crap they are doing to the game. Its frustrating. I resubbed up a couple months ago because a bunch of guys said they were subbing up again. Well, they're leaving. I am almost there.

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7 hours ago, minky said:

We have to agree to disagree here. While CRS has made some positive changes they have also thrown the game into disarray. The 109 change was positive. You’re welcome by the way. It took vasduten and I explaining on channel with Xoom exactly how bad the 109 was to get it looked at. 

Their other changes though?  The FMS was put in with little to no regard about how it would effect gameplay. Even when it became apparent the IV G wouldn’t hold up as the Axis main stay CRS waited until Axis HC unsubscribed and people who were brand new HC had to become CINC before they would do something about it. I had previously mentioned putting heavy ATGs in the depots in defensive AOs to even things up a bit. The CRS reaction?  Panic and throw 100 tigers at it. Replace one imbalance with another one. Stupid. 

Meanwhile the infantry play was utterly obliterated by the FMS mechanics with no real plan on how to bring that game play back. There are times now with two dead AOs on the map on US prime time. 

All the while they have left the LW so overmatched that it’s now basically dead. It seems to have taken the air war with it. The last campaign saw pilots in the “Top Fighters” with K/Ds under 1. 

On top of that they were pulling tools from the few leaders they have left in game. Like the ability to run trucks with second F2P accounts. Again, little to no thought on how it would effect gameplay. Your welcome on that one one too by the way. 

Nope, all in all this team is at a net negative in game changes. They’ve managed to kill action and player numbers while leaving one of the oldest imbalances in game. I put that on them not old CRS. 

I 100% agree. My squad of mostly day 1 players is getting smaller and smaller every day and every change. I am almost there with them. The F*$%ed the panzers up. Several guys left for that reason. Its frustrating.

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The Most constructive common sense thread ever. SALUTE POTTHEAD 1,2,3,4,5,6 ? how many are there? 

I may drag the tone down a little But ... 

I have played with and against POTTHEAD , mostly against on many occasions. I know we think alike so its no surprise I feel exactly the same way about the EBB & flow of the campaign.

Its noted that  some current AHC Seniors are absent from comment in this most basic understanding of what drives the success of a side at any time. This may explain the theory being the current AHC restructure. 

Then MEMO reads WHAT we must do is get active ON DISCORD/SLACK/FORUMS  to be effective leaders. Be a good little general and we will pat you on the HEAD every now and then with a medal or two. 

Those things are just part of the process, a sideshow for those that like to pontificate about what everyone else should be doing.  

NOthing you DO in the FOrums effects the game. If you don't get past the READY ROOM you get nothing done. 

As someone said we have too many chiefs and not enough INDIANS. or too many chiefs having a nap and not enough Indians.

To many talk the talk.

People who move the map KNOW about momentum and how to massage a  gradual rise in confidence and willingness to win the Fight. Nothing affects the game more than a willing CREW and MOIC with a sensible plan who looks a few towns ahead. 

We all have own way but the end result is what matters. 

I am sick of people who DO NOTHING in the actual game day to day on the coal face, telling Others what to DO and how to do it. 

ITS a GAMe, not a job. if you think You have the answer get in the GAME BE the MOIC and show the way. OTHER wise it just more White noise to me. A dull whiney sound in the distance like the new TRUCK audio seriously irritating.

SW1 

PICK A FLAG AND FIGHT FOR IT..  

 

Edited by sw1

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3 hours ago, sw1 said:

The Most constructive common sense thread ever. SALUTE POTTHEAD 1,2,3,4,5,6 ? how many are there? 

I may drag the tone down a little But ... 

I have played with and against POTTHEAD , mostly against on many occasions. I know we think alike so its no surprise I feel exactly the same way about the EBB & flow of the campaign.

Its noted that  some current AHC Seniors are absent from comment in this most basic understanding of what drives the success of a side at any time. This may explain the theory being the current AHC restructure. 

Then MEMO reads WHAT we must do is get active ON DISCORD/SLACK/FORUMS  to be effective leaders. Be a good little general and we will pat you on the HEAD every now and then with a medal or two. 

Those things are just part of the process, a sideshow for those that like to pontificate about what everyone else should be doing.  

NOthing you DO in the FOrums effects the game. If you don't get past the READY ROOM you get nothing done. 

As someone said we have too many chiefs and not enough INDIANS. or too many chiefs having a nap and not enough Indians.

To many talk the talk.

People who move the map KNOW about momentum and how to massage a  gradual rise in confidence and willingness to win the Fight. Nothing affects the game more than a willing CREW and MOIC with a sensible plan who looks a few towns ahead. 

We all have own way but the end result is what matters. 

I am sick of people who DO NOTHING in the actual game day to day on the coal face, telling Others what to DO and how to do it. 

ITS a GAMe, not a job. if you think You have the answer get in the GAME BE the MOIC and show the way. OTHER wise it just more White noise to me. A dull whiney sound in the distance like the new TRUCK audio seriously irritating.

SW1 

PICK A FLAG AND FIGHT FOR IT..  

 

S! SW1 ... a mighty friend and enemy! Always fun to play with and against you.

 

As for pottheads ... the less others log in .. the more I have to ;) on good days only 1-2 ... if you see potthead4 online.. u know im in deep poo poo and in hair pulling mode!

 

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Before this thread gets locked .. thank you to serial thread hi-jacker @minky .. 

I just want to say .. no matter whatever changes etc.. I thank CRS 1.0 and 2.0 for giving me platform to have a great hobby, a social environment to have a great time and spend many many hours full of joy and make many many friends across the world.

S! to your genius! .. LONG LIVE WWIIONLINE (ALLIED and AXIS) 

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2 hours ago, potthead said:

Before this thread gets locked .. thank you to serial thread hi-jacker @minky .. 

I just want to say .. no matter whatever changes etc.. I thank CRS 1.0 and 2.0 for giving me platform to have a great hobby, a social environment to have a great time and spend many many hours full of joy and make many many friends across the world.

S! to your genius! .. LONG LIVE WWIIONLINE (ALLIED and AXIS) 

Appreciate that Potthead! Regardless of what some seem to think, we really do try, and will continue to do the best we can with your positive support and appreciated civill vocal involvement..

As for the hi-jack, I think @Minky and I have both made our thoughts clear and there's probably not much else left to say. That being said, I'll be happy to stop and even hide all the non OP conversation to prevent any tailgaters from h-jacking it further... I sorta do feel guilty for not taking it private and messin up your rhythm...  S!

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2 hours ago, HATCH said:

YOUR verbal support, both in game and out, and in-game positivity and leadership, is directly proportional to new customers enjoying themselves, falling in love with the same thing you did, sticking around and becoming supportive members of this community. YOUR subscription support is directly proportionate to dedicated dev resources, implementing at a much faster pace, the improvements and bug fixes we all want to see. We bust our tails for hours almost every day for the cause. All you gotta do is have fun and share a few dollars a month or buy a DLC pack or something to share the love. Think about it...

You have my full support in all of that... now that I can afford it I have paid Hero sub.. and will do what I can to have fun in game.. I feel like if I am having fun .. I can make it fun for the rest as well! Sorry many others don't appreciate what you all have done and are doing.

S!

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22 minutes ago, potthead said:

Before this thread gets locked .. thank you to serial thread hi-jacker @minky .. 

I just want to say .. no matter whatever changes etc.. I thank CRS 1.0 and 2.0 for giving me platform to have a great hobby, a social environment to have a great time and spend many many hours full of joy and make many many friends across the world.

S! to your genius! .. LONG LIVE WWIIONLINE (ALLIED and AXIS) 

Smoochies @potthead.  You know you still love me potthead.  We spent too much time snuggled up to the back of Dinker's opel in pak 38's for you to say otherwise.  Long live 3PZG.

Edited by minky

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To slightly re-hijack the thread all I want to say is that I agree with Hatch that one of the most toxic aspects are the same 5-10 tags I forums and in game side chat whining about this and that and finishing of with the sentence that CRS is biased.

For a game that is played ostensibly mostly by young and middle aged adults that someone would claim that a company that is trying to make money is actively trying to favor one side is just crazy.

Thays the internet I guess though :/

Anyway. I'm here supporting the project and hoping that we get a solid 1.36 and can use the momentum to jump to a WWIIOL 2.0

S!

 

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On 2/8/2019 at 1:49 AM, major0noob said:

they get bored and log...

make the game fun then let teamwork and leadership happen naturally

 

my squad XO (leadership) and a bunch of squadmates (teamwork) quit, from simple boredom. why is this soo hard for the rats and volunteers to comprehend?

was his leadership and their teamwork garbage?

the game needs hooks

yeah sure some communities can create their own fun and hooks, but this doesn't happen all the time or consistently and there has got to be something to snowball off of

for example years ago we actually had a populated Luftwaffe bomber squad, Stg2, and were rolling a dozen or so pilots on squad ops (more dedicated bombers than there are concurrent LW pilots now)

I remember flying over a town to support an AO with a bunch of 110FBs, but since there were no depot captures and no infantry skirmish, there was no armor spawning, or anything spawning really

defenders eventually spawned a few AA guns, but ops was a dud and everyone logged after a few missions

ops go longer simply because there is a bunch of stuff going on, people play longer or are more likely to perform support tasks

it's easier to create hooks for infantry players than tankers or pilots, and this is a main factor why axis can hold higher numbers as their playerbase is now almost all infantry players

for whatever reason CRS has been trying its damndest to depress infantry activity now, so even infantry players are getting bored and not participating

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1 hour ago, david06 said:

the game needs hooks

yeah sure some communities can create their own fun and hooks, but this doesn't happen all the time or consistently and there has got to be something to snowball off of

So besides the obvious default of population, what ARE those and how do we implement them? Can it be done with current game mechanics so it doesn't have to wait six months or more?

1 hour ago, david06 said:

for example years ago we actually had a populated Luftwaffe bomber squad, Stg2, and were rolling a dozen or so pilots on squad ops (more dedicated bombers than there are concurrent LW pilots now)

I remember flying over a town to support an AO with a bunch of 110FBs, but since there were no depot captures and no infantry skirmish, there was no armor spawning, or anything spawning really

defenders eventually spawned a few AA guns, but ops was a dud and everyone logged after a few missions

it's easier to create hooks for infantry players than tankers or pilots, and this is a main factor why axis can hold higher numbers as their playerbase is now almost all infantry players

Again, besides defaulting to population (which will take care of itself if we can remedy the other), what is now missing that wasn't before, that can be re-introduced to bring back those ground support ops?

1 hour ago, david06 said:

for whatever reason CRS has been trying its damndest to depress infantry activity now, so even infantry players are getting bored and not participating

I'm sorry, but this is just a ridiculous statement. We are listening, meeting about suggestions, making polls, sharing planned responses, the reasoning behind, posting roadmaps, etc, etc, trying our damnedest to listen and  accommodate everyone possible. Seems we just haven't found the right combination yet. Ears are wide open, but it does not really help us simply complaining without providing workable suggestions/options we (and all the other players) can work with. You think we wouldn't snap our fingers and fix it all instantly if we could? Obviously unless some rich benefactor intercedes, were gonna have to continue to work out of the slump ourselves. 1.36, 64 bit, and a new Terrain Editor are getting close to nearing completion. First real terrain expansion in 10 years in QA right now. New bunkers, and buildings, AC damage modelling, along with a huge list of bug fixes right behind, and small arms audit scheduled to follow that... What else can we do short term with the tools at hand while these are nearing completion?

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the biggest hook has been slowly eroded away

big combined arms battles

  • the FMS removed inf staying power, like the glass FB, their ops ends when a FMS is down
  • armour has been removed from most flags
  • too many people unsubbed from boredom, and their reasons are ignored. my crusade against the FMS started after my XO and a chunk of squad quit. their reasons were totally ignored

 

then there's the slow reaction to negative effects, like 3min build times staying for as long as they have. it was soo obviously a bad thing too...

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@HATCH If we want more action, more hooks, more people engaged, then we need to make things take less time, not more time.  Adjusting timers is something you guys can do at any time afaik.  Reducing the placement timer on the FMS is probably the easiest thing to do that would facilitate attacks.  

 

SOOOOOO often, the trucks are killed before they even get a chance to place.  When we had the FRUs instead of the truck-only FMS, very few people opted to drive a truck in because they were so easy to track down and kill.  Even though the initial investment of time for an infantry FRU is greater (i.e. it takes longer to walk than to drive), that investment allowed actual battles to occur at pretty much every AO (as long as the FBs stayed up, which is a problem that has already been addressed).  

 

Consider a situation where neither side is attacking and both sides are sitting on defense.  In those cases there is NOTHING going on.  On a fundamental level, no attacks = no action.  Therefore, more attacks = more action, and fewer attacks = less action.  

 

If you look at my proposal for a Light Infantry FRU in this forum, most people have voted "No" even though it would help facilitate action and it addresses a majority of the concerns with the old Infantry FRU.  Why would a workable solution be discounted right off the bat?  I believe it's because lot of the remaining players are the players who mainly prefer defense.  Why would they be the ones left in greater numbers?  Simple!  Defense is easier, and attacking is harder.  The people who generate the most basic form of content in this game (an attack that leads to a battle) are the ones who are taxed the most and suffer from the most fatigue.  They leave at a greater rate as a consequence.  

 

What's the end result of more defensive-minded players and less offensive-minded players?  Less action.  

 

The FMS places a higher burden on those who set up attacks than an infantry-placed FRU.  It's easier to set up actual battles with the infantry-placed FRU.  Yet that idea is thrown to the wayside by the majority.  That result doesn't make sense to me (and several other players who can see what the problems are).  

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1 hour ago, HATCH said:

So besides the obvious default of population, what ARE those and how do we implement them?

many people don't log in for "population" they log in for fights
server population doesn't create a fight, in this game you need infantry spawning and fighting in relatively close proximity for a fight to escalate to tanks and planes
that means either close FMS or contested towns
no one can build a community around a game that has no fights, I certainly can't and many squads couldn't

1 hour ago, HATCH said:

Can it be done with current game mechanics so it doesn't have to wait six months or more?

10-second FMS build time
1 min depot capture timers
30 minute bunker timers
when you get someone that knows some basic code then have the server kick out a "___ depot is under capture!" text message on the target channel when the enemy starts capturing
the reasoning for the above changes would be a wall of text and people would argue with me about basic FPS principles, so I won't type it out here

1 hour ago, HATCH said:

I'm sorry, but this is just a ridiculous statement.

placing an infantry spawn and capturing a depot (the lifeblood of this game) is the most difficult it has been in years

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5 minutes ago, david06 said:

many people don't log in for "population" they log in for fights
server population doesn't create a fight, in this game you need infantry spawning and fighting in relatively close proximity for a fight to escalate to tanks and planes
that means either close FMS or contested towns
no one can build a community around a game that has no fights, I certainly can't and many squads couldn't

10-second FMS build time
1 min depot capture timers
30 minute bunker timers
when you get someone that knows some basic code then have the server kick out a "___ depot is under capture!" text message on the target channel when the enemy starts capturing
the reasoning for the above changes would be a wall of text and people would argue with me about basic FPS principles, so I won't type it out here

placing an infantry spawn and capturing a depot (the lifeblood of this game) is the most difficult it has been in years

A rare case where I am in 100% agreement with david06.  

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8 minutes ago, david06 said:

10-second FMS build time
1 min depot capture timers
30 minute bunker timers
when you get someone that knows some basic code then have the server kick out a "___ depot is under capture!" text message on the target channel when the enemy starts capturing
the reasoning for the above changes would be a wall of text and people would argue with me about basic FPS principles, so I won't type it out here

@david06I convince them to give it a try and make that happen, you and @major0noobsign back up? JK! I'll see what what they say...

 

 

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Add me to that rare case. What needs doing right now is offense needs a proper design. Offense has traditionally been stupid hard. Getting rid of tanks in so many flags that you cant really go on offense, on top of the greater difficulty setting up your beachhead from which to push from.

 

i’d add double or triple the damage required to take down the FMS and or make it essentially immune to infantry damage. AFVs and bombers, not scout cars and infantry, need to be what ends an attack. IMO. I’m fine with mortars being a primary use for FMS destruction too. Riflemen shouldn’t have ‘HE charges’ - they’re riflemen ffs. 

Need more vehicle combat, a lot more.

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4 minutes ago, HATCH said:

@david06I convince them to give it a try and make that happen, you and @major0noobsign back up? JK! I'll see what what they say...

 

 

NO! Don’t kid about this hatch. Make those changes and hold these f2p/unsub players accountable. They went f2p in protest, make the change and call them out!

 

IMO

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My own personal views of what to do to make attacking easier and more action (posting this with future 1.36 changes in mind):

1) reduce FMS build timer to 30 seconds

2) reduce capture time on CP across the board (but maintain the overpop% capture timer adjustments since they are necessary)

3) increase AB hot bunker timer to 15 minutes (30 minutes way to long IMHO) so players can focus on fighting and only to move to the bunker later in the fight.

4) Revert back to classic spawn lists with good amount of armor/ATG/AA/infantry in all town along the front

5) Make the movable divisions small in number (2 for now, one N one S) in 1.36 act as a small armor buff, but keep most armor in the town supply to facilitate gameplay and allow HC to lead attacks and organize vs babysit flags (this is already being done... Just saying I support it)

6) Increase FMS damage threshold to take 6 sachels (2 engineers)

 

Most important of all we need to support the vehicle game. Tanks, ATG, AA, planes need their respective targets to shoot at in order to have good gameplay. The means we need to have a game that requires their presence and makes it viable to be able to spawn and survive in one for more than a short time. So no magical infantry FRU with no geographic placement restrictions since it promotes nothing but lone infantry ninja capping and town swarming tactics.

S!

 

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1 hour ago, HATCH said:

@david06I convince them to give it a try and make that happen, you and @major0noobsign back up? JK! I'll see what what they say...

as long as the inf have no staying power, i'm done.

spent 10 months at boring, dead AO's already.

 

you guys have the data, just look at the subs before truck-FRU, then current subs.

my 3 weeks of screenshots arguing against 3min build times was the equivalent of simply logging in. it was that simple to see a problem...

the FMS still has issues, more severe than the inf-FRU's ever were.

Edited by major0noob

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6 hours ago, aismov said:

My own personal views of what to do to make attacking easier and more action (posting this with future 1.36 changes in mind):

1) reduce FMS build timer to 30 seconds

2) reduce capture time on CP across the board (but maintain the overpop% capture timer adjustments since they are necessary)

3) increase AB hot bunker timer to 15 minutes (30 minutes way to long IMHO) so players can focus on fighting and only to move to the bunker later in the fight.

whatever the exact numbers, it's certainly possible to make attacking easier but make town capture harder just by changing timers
when there's a fight going on at all times, and a new fight can get started or escalated easy then it's possible to really start rebuilding communities, hooking players with organized and regular battles (a.k.a. "content")

6 hours ago, HATCH said:

@david06I convince them to give it a try and make that happen, you and @major0noobsign back up? JK! I'll see what what they say...

This is your product and your livelihood at stake, either make the changes or don't
You asked me some questions about how to fix your game, don't resent me when I plainly tell you what to change


as for the constant nagging about being F2P I had multiple accounts subbed for years and donated to every silly fund drive, even that abortion thas was Rapid Assault 
as a consumer I've decided that it's much wiser if I pay for current value rather than "what might be", others are very invested in the game despite its current state and that's fine too

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1 hour ago, david06 said:

as for the constant nagging about being F2P I had multiple accounts subbed for years and donated to every silly fund drive, even that abortion thas was Rapid Assault 
as a consumer I've decided that it's much wiser if I pay for current value rather than "what might be", others are very invested in the game despite its current state and that's fine too

Those are whales, they make up roughly 1% of the f2p market, and will buy up everything a game puts out for various reasons for it personal or just wanting to support having a bunch of money to spend. By simply offering more items, whether it be cosmetics, a subscription, unique units, nameplates, or other vanity items, this 1% turns into a larger % of the total profits. You see all these games with hundreds apon hundreds of little items to buy, it's because they sell well not only to the average person, but to people who really want to stick out from the  crowd with all the coolest, latest gear.

Edited by knucks

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