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      Hells Gate   03/24/2019

      Break through the lines, and enter Hells Gate!!! This will be the next CRS organized event.  Lead by the High command from each side.
      Free Premium Access for the event
      Date: 3/30/19 Time: 11:00 AM Server time/ 12:00pm EST/ 1600 GMT
XOOM

Veterans unsubscribing and starting Free Accounts

187 posts in this topic

Side chat is used more than any other channel on axis side to inform players and post missions. I'm not sure why anyone who has every tried to organize players on the axis side, much less organize new players, would ever think that it should be de-tuned. It being de-tuned was having such a bad result that I reported it back during the Steam launch when it was obvious that the Steam players were wandering around and not getting any missions. 

 

Literally two people claim that a chat channel is the reason why the game isn't retaining new players and it's accepted without question.

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2 hours ago, karecafree said:

I played with a friend account yesterday.
17+  dead allied tanks with stug in 3 missions
but I still do not think about going back..

Tier 0 and 1 unplayable for axis tankers...

S!

 

Kareca please come back!

S! 

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14 hours ago, david06 said:

Literally two people claim that a chat channel is the reason why the game isn't retaining new players and it's accepted without question.

Or is it?   Or are some obviously inaccurate statements simply not commented on?

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1 hour ago, david06 said:

Side chat is used more than any other channel on axis side to inform players and post missions. I'm not sure why anyone who has every tried to organize players on the axis side, much less organize new players, would ever think that it should be de-tuned. It being de-tuned was having such a bad result that I reported it back during the Steam launch when it was obvious that the Steam players were wandering around and not getting any missions. 

 

Literally two people claim that a chat channel is the reason why the game isn't retaining new players and it's accepted without question.

Quiet a few axis do not have side tuned, and never post missions on side. Watch chn 10 and 74, that is where squads communicate and real missions are posted. Far too much spam and clutter on side, causing genuine info to be missed. Side chat is great for a bit of fun, but it just obscures genuine battle comms.

 

S! Ian

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i know a few who have un subbed but keep playing using a free account. 

The reasons for un subbing are as varied as the gripes we all hear about. 

I think the reduction in overall player numbers is the bottom line reason, it just exaggerates the flaws, everything seems worse than it really is because 5 v 10 is very different to 20 v 30 etc the larger the overall population the less it frustrates because you will always have people willing to def a flag bust an fb drive in that fms .  And when I say FLaws, well nothing is perfect and there never be a point when everyone is happy. 

I use Side Chat more than most as Hc I think mostly because I rarely use discord. I play late at night when everyone else is asleep. 

I am concerned at the idea SIe chat should be disabled in some way, however  . allied would do the same job I guess. And we do get a fair amount of flack when the gear runs out

It is hard to keep up the Side momentum without constant requests for the task to be undertaken. Again when the population is higher these jobs get done because you have more of every type of player new and old. willing and unwilling. 

Xoom I have given my time to cover late TZ3 HC for many years and have been a subscriber without break since day 1. I do not have time to be a constant contributor to forums and back of HOUSe HC matters however I do give all the time I have. Recently some sort of CRS sanctioned purge and brushed aside those of who do what we can when we can IN some sort of CLEAN out operation. This to me seems very disrespectful and as far as I can see another example of us shooting ourselves in the foot. 

I would suggest that many of those less active HC are most likely going to think ok well ill just unsub and play for free until i feel its worthwhile again. I don't feel that way and will continue. A little unwanted is all i feel !! 

it's this sort of thing that makes me consider the time I give to the game. as long as i am having fun i will continue.

Overall still HAve fun most likely I will drop out of HC and just go SOLO  for a bit.

SW1

 

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2 hours ago, david06 said:

Side chat is used more than any other channel on axis side to inform players and post missions. I'm not sure why anyone who has every tried to organize players on the axis side, much less organize new players, would ever think that it should be de-tuned. It being de-tuned was having such a bad result that I reported it back during the Steam launch when it was obvious that the Steam players were wandering around and not getting any missions. 

 

Literally two people claim that a chat channel is the reason why the game isn't retaining new players and it's accepted without question.

Not many people tune to side chat. I for one have never tuned to it. I actually forgot about it until I opened up a free account. I have always tuned to 10, 20, and 74. Maybe CRS can make those defaults?

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I have no plans to unsub. I am patient and optimistic. Thanks for the hard work CRS. 

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8 hours ago, XOOM said:

Well, instead of bailing... what do you recommend we do? I won't argue that there's no doubt some toxicity and it's eroding things (we really need to get that checked). We don't want to be too heavy handed of course, but we also can't have some folks stomping all over the place. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't in most cases.

It can't all be on CRS's plate to ask for civility, that's just something that we do. And fwiw, this community is still far superior than any I can think of out there. We have some great people here and I am glad to have had the experience of being one of you all. It helps me understand and guide me.

But surely we can do better, and I think that's what you're advocating for.

my posts generate a lot of subjective and toxic attitude. can you let me get data (make a thread with evidence) so i can be objective?

i know your sick of me being a pain, i am as well. but fourm arguing is all i can do without permission to make another thread.

 

nearly everything i've ever argued about can be backed with a simple record of battle development. the last 2 times I've tried to get one up they were taken down immediately.

i can be constructive, ya'll are forcing me into a criticism corner though

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Sorry, coming out of the blue here. I saw the LMG email in my box and just wanted to see how it was being received, instead, I walked into this thread.

Some things I’m taking away from this, people want to punish Xoom and CRS for changing things up. I get it, you hit them where it hurts the most... but I think you’ll eventually end up with sellers remorse. If the game folds, where else will you play this type of game? There isn’t many on the market that matches; scale, units, and the cohesion between players.

i left the game several years back due to lack of innovation. At least Xoom and team are trying, and I’m sure hell paying attention. But you can’t fight scared, if you don’t rock the boat, youll never get more players... we saw that with the steam release. The game hadn’t changed since... 08? Now they’re bringing change, hell ya... I’m all for that. I may even resub knowing I have a max of 2 hours a night to play.

keep on doing what you think is right for the game Xoom, you and rats are a rarity in the game market, actually listening to your players. But keep in mind, this is y’alls baby and creative hope, you all steer the ship.

roll tide and S!

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Thanks Viruses (and all supporters!), heck thanks to everyone who gives us input. Yes, the game was left largely in the doldrums for a decade - we now bring a LOT of change, innovation and improvement to make up for those lost years. Some of it is not universally well received (heh) but here’s to patience, understanding and your continued support as we keep tweaking and building this pretty durn unique game.

S!

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14 hours ago, XOOM said:

Hmm well it should've been done, I know thousands of users received access to it. We're more than happy to add that access accordingly if someone fits into that category.

I had the same "pröblem" 4 weeks ago - i was being told that it isnt switched from premium to free play automatically...had to do it by hand and request

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Speaking as an allied player, I don't like the idea of detuning the side channel. Yes, there is some BS, but it's also where *all* the playerbase communications are - 911 requests, supply updates, mission requests ('Can someone run an MSP to...') etc.

We don't have separate channels set up for this stuff the way Axis seem to.

I'm sure if 'side' is removed, the allied playerbase will adjust and maybe start using ops (which most vets have probably detuned). However, I believe the noise level is less of an issue on the Allied side channel than it is on the Axis one.

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7 hours ago, viruses said:

Sorry, coming out of the blue here. I saw the LMG email in my box and just wanted to see how it was being received, instead, I walked into this thread.

Some things I’m taking away from this, people want to punish Xoom and CRS for changing things up. I get it, you hit them where it hurts the most... but I think you’ll eventually end up with sellers remorse. If the game folds, where else will you play this type of game? There isn’t many on the market that matches; scale, units, and the cohesion between players.

i left the game several years back due to lack of innovation. At least Xoom and team are trying, and I’m sure hell paying attention. But you can’t fight scared, if you don’t rock the boat, youll never get more players... we saw that with the steam release. The game hadn’t changed since... 08? Now they’re bringing change, hell ya... I’m all for that. I may even resub knowing I have a max of 2 hours a night to play.

keep on doing what you think is right for the game Xoom, you and rats are a rarity in the game market, actually listening to your players. But keep in mind, this is y’alls baby and creative hope, you all steer the ship.

roll tide and S!

I agree.  I play several other games (non-ww2 related) but not on a regular basis like this game.  Unless Im busy or have a conflict I usually will log in for 2 hrs or so a night and try to have some fun.  I like to win but dont mind losing. 

All the "proposed" changes need to be live, played & then evaluated before having a reaction.  Lots of people are getting their panties in a bunch even before we, the general player base have seen and played it live.  

If you cant play for RL reasons and need to unsub I get it..........but those who unsub because the game isnt what they want and then make a free account because they STILL want to play but are punishing CRS for their decisions I think is wrong.  There will never be 100% agreement on decisions.

Ask yourself this.........if the game were to fold 6 months from now how would you feel?

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11 minutes ago, bmw said:

If you cant play for RL reasons and need to unsub I get it..........but those who unsub because the game isnt what they want and then make a free account because they STILL want to play but are punishing CRS for their decisions I think is wrong.  There will never be 100% agreement on decisions.

Ask yourself this.........if the game were to fold 6 months from now how would you feel?

I think one of the main things is realizing that we are a volunteer team. We are players like everyone else. The monthly subscription goes to keeping the servers alive and not paying any of our salaries because we don’t get paid. I know most of the team also pays their subscription to the game as well. So in the end if it did come to that, it’s not much of a punishment because we would regain our time. Many of us put in hours as if it were a full time job despite not being paid.

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28 minutes ago, SCKING said:

I think one of the main things is realizing that we are a volunteer team. We are players like everyone else. The monthly subscription goes to keeping the servers alive and not paying any of our salaries because we don’t get paid. I know most of the team also pays their subscription to the game as well. So in the end if it did come to that, it’s not much of a punishment because we would regain our time. Many of us put in hours as if it were a full time job despite not being paid.

So in the case you got a bunch of players and revenue would you still consider yourself volunteers? One would think at some point you'd have to consider yourselves developers and somewhat of a business if you're making money, unless you're fine with the game only having 200 players. In that case I would retract support if CRS had no ambition of growing the playerbase, especially because there are volunteer run MMO's out there that don't accept any sort of payment, not even donations due to legal obligations. You don't have the same obligations so I'd ask why you consider yourself volunteers when the potential to be the true developers is there, you're only not making money off of this game because of poor monetization.

Edited by knucks

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Most of us are volunteers, not consider that we are but factually are as in we receive no pay and in fact pay a sub to play the game. Some of us get the little perk of caps and a rat tag ingame but that's it.

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2 minutes ago, knucks said:

So in the case you got a bunch of players and revenue would you still consider yourself volunteers? One would think at some point you'd have to consider yourselves developers and somewhat of a business, unless you're fine with the game only having 200 players.

I would, as I would like to see that money invested in increasing our artists and developers to make the game better faster. Only time I would step away from the “volunteer” label is if the game development demanded my time to the point that I have to make a decision between my full time job I currently have and working for the game, then I obviously have to pay my bills. 

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1 minute ago, SCKING said:

I would, as I would like to see that money invested in increasing our artists and developers to make the game better faster. Only time I would step away from the “volunteer” label is if the game development demanded my time to the point that I have to make a decision between my full time job I currently have and working for the game, then I obviously have to pay my bills. 

Fair enough. I still think this game has huge untapped potential and you could easily supplement your own wages putting in the same time you do now, but reaching out to more players, which translates to more customers by offering easier entry for all, improved controls and a payment model more in line with competing titles. No doubt this game plays well with 1000 players, and the last time it had it was too far back for people nowadays to remember, or even know this game exists. The people who do find this game seem overwhelmingly disappointed in 1.the population numbers and 2.the manditory subscription, which is bottlneck on potential customers, exposure and reception.

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2 hours ago, knucks said:

2.the manditory subscription, which is bottlneck on potential customers, exposure and reception.

The problem with this assertion (that you continue to make in multiple threads) is that the two main methods of MMOs generating revenue (advertising and microtransactions) aren't easily feasible without coding effort.

Of the two of them, I can see having in-game advertising in the UI being the more feasible of the two, and I suspect the Rats have already examined this. Assuming:

  • a CPM (Cost per thousand impressions) of $4-$6
  • 100% impression inventory sold
  • Only free players see it

I would think CRS could see a few dollars per month per regular free rifle account player. I would think that may be enough to open up the free accounts to have more equipment, but they would still need to hold stuff back for premium subscribers who are willing to pay $18 per month.

 

 

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Read forums or subreddits for literally any other game and you will find criticism. People vote with their wallets in business, that's simply the nature of things. Not much more to understand here.

As for speculating on the main reason why people leave or do not find this game worth paying for any longer:

14 hours ago, sw1 said:

I think the reduction in overall player numbers is the bottom line reason, it just exaggerates the flaws, everything seems worse than it really is

^ there's your biggest issue

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1 hour ago, caydel said:

The problem with this assertion (that you continue to make in multiple threads) is that the two main methods of MMOs generating revenue (advertising and microtransactions) aren't easily feasible without coding effort.

Of the two of them, I can see having in-game advertising in the UI being the more feasible of the two, and I suspect the Rats have already examined this. Assuming:

  • a CPM (Cost per thousand impressions) of $4-$6
  • 100% impression inventory sold
  • Only free players see it

I would think CRS could see a few dollars per month per regular free rifle account player. I would think that may be enough to open up the free accounts to have more equipment, but they would still need to hold stuff back for premium subscribers who are willing to pay $18 per month.

 

 

Microtransactions are already in game with the DLC, problem is they're woefully overpriced for what you get and combined it comes out to like 100 dollars which is still way above what this game is worth 1 time buy, and it's some of the most basic equipment there is  wholefully outmatched past tier 2. So basically you have to subscribe or you're going to be at a huge disadvantage which generally, most people don't buy into subscription service games anymore. Cosmetics that don't effect gameplay are usually the best sellers, actually most f2p games make all their money from cosmetics alone. Hands down the best way to do it. Also there's no reason to buy the DLC if you're already subbing so it's pretty empty money potential unlike cosmetics which are universally sought after as premium items. Just think like this, if every tank had a few historical paints, each costing $3-5, then that's hundreds, potentially thousands of dollars on top of sub money which every player is exposed to, unless for some reason they don't have the unit to buy it for. That's small price variation, the best looking items can be up to 10 a pop and be huge revenue ON TOP of the sub, as with subscribers there will still be incentives to buy them, and it's all per player so some people will buy everything, and that 1 person will practically pay for the servers for a year.  (not really but you know what I mean)

Edited by knucks

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If the game grew beyond expected levels. and the team is working on it, I would love to see CRS hire people than can work in real offices with Xoom, among which someone I could train to hand over all the information I gather from my contributions.

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14 minutes ago, knucks said:

Microtransactions are already in game with the DLC, problem is they're woefully overpriced for what you get and combined it comes out to like 100 dollars which is still way above what this game is worth 1 time buy, and it's some of the most basic equipment there is  wholefully outmatched past tier 2. So basically you have to subscribe or you're going to be at a huge disadvantage which generally, most people don't buy into subscription service games anymore. Cosmetics that don't effect gameplay are usually the best sellers, actually most f2p games make all their money from cosmetics alone. Hands down the best way to do it. Also there's no reason to buy the DLC if you're already subbing so it's pretty empty money potential unlike cosmetics which are universally sought after as premium items. Just think like this, if every tank had a few historical paints, each costing $3-5, then that's hundreds, potentially thousands of dollars on top of sub money which every player is exposed to, unless for some reason they don't have the unit to buy it for. That's small price variation, the best looking items can be up to 10 a pop and be huge revenue ON TOP of the sub, as in subscribers will still be incentives to buy them.

You understand that every paint job added on would have to load at gametime right?

 

Rats have badges which you get for being subbed at certain points in time, being a longtime player, going to a con, etc., those are the custom B/B1 on a shield, drinking buddies on a plane tail, etc.  A few hardcore squads ponied up undisclosed amounts of money to get their own badges.  Otherwise the tanks, vehicles, planes get unit badges representing the brigade they are from.

 

Those are smidgeny little files and not a lot of them, so that's a thing that could be done.

 

But a full paint scheme means likely a new model or at least skin, a lot MORE money to produce and QA and more memory usage when we really need terrain updates and the  like.  Plus, you think people go nuts now on forums with unfair this and that, being able to pick say a better camo tank will literally change the game and definitely is P2W.  Which would lead to rage quitting.

 

So, badges worth it, skins likely not.

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20 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

You understand that every paint job added on would have to load at gametime right?

Well, yes that's the point

 

20 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

Rats have badges which you get for being subbed at certain points in time, being a longtime player, going to a con, etc., those are the custom B/B1 on a shield, drinking buddies on a plane tail, etc.  A few hardcore squads ponied up undisclosed amounts of money to get their own badges.  Otherwise the tanks, vehicles, planes get unit badges representing the brigade they are from.

Yes those too, decals if you will.

 

20 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

But a full paint scheme means likely a new model or at least skin, a lot MORE money to produce

Yes a skin, probably a few Mb each and a couple of hours in program of your choice for a HQ one.

 

20 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

being able to pick say a better camo tank will literally change the game and definitely is P2W. 

LOL that's war son. You don't see people in warthunder crying about historic cammo schemes on their planes and tanks! Do you want CRS to make money or not?
THEN QUIT YOUR BELLY ACHING SOLDIER!

Edited by knucks

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27 minutes ago, knucks said:

Well, yes that's the point

 

Yes those too, decals if you will.

 

Yes a skin, probably a few Mb each and a couple of hours in program of your choice for a HQ one.

 

LOL that's war son. You don't see people in warthunder crying about historic cammo schemes on their planes and tanks! Do you want CRS to make money or not?
THEN QUIT YOUR BELLY ACHING SOLDIER!

just start simply with a test on microtransaction DLC $$$ for either personal or squad badges/patches like the ones that currently exist for whoever has them  - see if there is traction then can consider full camo / alt skins / uniforms, etc. 

some ppl have already paid (either via subs, hero subs, squad money or just sub time in game) for the existing patches/icons/symbols over the head) 

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