XOOM

LMG Solution Planned

347 posts in this topic

I've decided to start a new post here and start fresh, as my last post caused quite a bit of a ruckus. That thread was closely monitored and we understand how important this is to you all. All subsequent LMG threads have been closed as of this writing so that we can stay focused here.

These are considered WWII Online's light machine guns, and any changes will have an equal effect on them:

  • Bren Gun (UK)
  • FM24/29 (FR)
  • MG34 (DE)
  • .30 Caliber (Allied) - currently in development

Solutions for the LMG class are to be:

  • No reloading while in motion
  • No firing while in motion

WE WILL NOT BE TWEAKING OR TARGETING ANY WEAPONS PERFORMANCE NEGATIVELY (NERFING) IN ANY FASHION.

The Small Arms audit is still planned and should add enhancements (improvements) to all of these weapons and other infantry based weapons.

This means you will still be able to perform all other functions, including hip firing. However you cannot reload or shoot your LMG while jogging, walking, or any form of moving of any kind.

One exception is being stationary, and looking left - right, and up-down. You can shoot and reload and provide stationary 360 degree hip fire cover or suppression, should you choose.

DEMONSTRATION OF SOLUTION IN ACTION

 

14 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1.

Realistic in all respects given the limitations of any game like this, and balanced for all sides' gameplay since it will affect all LMGs equally. 

Yay.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a good start, but I think re-load times of some of these weapons needs to be scrutinized. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, nc0gnet0 said:

It's a good start, but I think re-load times of some of these weapons needs to be scrutinized. 

Right now, this is it. Those require new animations and a whole lot more work. I don't want to make the game unbearable and players who prefer to play this class are hypersensitive to any changes. 

What you see, is the extent of any changes officially at this time.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1

Seems like some pretty fair and reasonable change to me. Good work. I'm not a huge fan of the head wag in general as you have to wait for it to stop before you try again. But that is a different topic entirely and I don't really have a better alternative to suggest.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, choad said:

+1

Seems like some pretty fair and reasonable change to me. Good work. I'm not a huge fan of the head wag in general as you have to wait for it to stop before you try again. But that is a different topic entirely and I don't really have a better alternative to suggest.

It's over exaggerated due to the number of attempts to try it in this video. People will learn quickly and it will give them quick feedback about why things are not happening as they see it.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Right now, this is it. Those require new animations and a whole lot more work. I don't want to make the game unbearable and players who prefer to play this class are hypersensitive to any changes. 

What you see, is the extent of any changes officially at this time.

So, no changes to stamina based on weight of the weapon will be added? I bring this up as it was talked about. If your not going to adjust your re-load times, can't you at least make it so you can half load a standard non-clip rifle? Being forced to load to full capacity while taking fire isn't always the most realistic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, nc0gnet0 said:

So, no changes to stamina based on weight of the weapon will be added? I bring this up as it was talked about. If your not going to adjust your re-load times, can't you at least make it so you can half load a standard non-clip rifle? Being forced to load to full capacity while taking fire isn't always the most realistic. 

Correct. No stamina changes. The only changes that will be occurring are as-described above. I have provided the primary reason as to why that is. I am not interested in starting a community fire-storm to appease half the equation resulting into the other half calling it quits. These are fair and very reasonable and have the desired effect of removing the run and gun nature of the weapons which primarily infuriate folks on the receiving end / provide an unfair advantage to the one delivering the pain.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, nc0gnet0 said:

So, no changes to stamina based on weight of the weapon will be added?

LMG classes do in general burn ATP at a faster rate then say a rifleman though, so they do not sprint as far with out needing to slow down or rest prone if you need a really quick recovery.

 

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Merlin51 said:

LMG classes do in general burn ATP at a faster rate then say a rifleman though, so they do not sprint as far with out needing to slow down or rest prone if you need a really quick recovery.

This is correct, thanks Merlin. What I meant to say is, we are not working to change any other variable to exaggerate this already existing effect.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

LMG classes do in general burn ATP at a faster rate then say a rifleman though, so they do not sprint as far with out needing to slow down or rest prone if you need a really quick recovery.

 

Well, it's a welcome change for sure, so don't get me wrong. And my comments are not targeting one specific weapon, but the whole class of weapons (auto's). Just my two cents, I think the game still has too much of an auto weapon flavor, as opposed to a more realistic battle fought mostly with rifles. Any change that brings the rifles back to prominence (not talking about spawn lists) is welcome. 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im happy with this, seems fair on all sides, this addresses only problem i had with the running around hip shooting, dont mind it if not moving

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Xoom - sounds like a good solution - fully support it. 

LaFleur 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, nc0gnet0 said:

So, no changes to stamina based on weight of the weapon will be added? I bring this up as it was talked about. If your not going to adjust your re-load times, can't you at least make it so you can half load a standard non-clip rifle? Being forced to load to full capacity while taking fire isn't always the most realistic. 

Fair question:
As xoom mentioned, the reloading is not a simple thing that can simply be adjusted.
We are kind of stuck for now with the method originally designed for it, which is pretty solidly pinned to the granny animations.
You basically have to kind of remodel the whole trooper to change it.

In that same mechanism, no original facility was made for say putting three rounds in a revolver and then halting the reload to try an use those three rounds
to dispatch some knife wielding mad man running at you.

Same for a rifle that uses multiple strippers to fully load, or a sniper rifle than is hand loading due to scope mounting.

That would require the creation of a new code supported mechanic, as well as a new animation system that can follow the mechanic and have interruptible points

It would not be the kind of thing that would be quickly doable, and would pull resources from other things that you would probably rather see first.
They would be nice additions at some later time when more pressing things have been addressed and such.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always advocated for defaulting the move speed to walking ('t' for toggle in-game), which is very slow, when attempting to fire.

Not only is this historical and realistic for each of the weapons listed (documentation for each, and the fact that you can technically fire anything while moving), but more importantly it's better for gameplay; there's no jarring head-shake and no sudden loss of firing if you tap the movement keys. I imagine it will be quite strange to both new and old players.

So, I wish CRS was going a different direction, but at least some change is being made. Hopefully the playerbase will be happy, or at the very least content, with the changes.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Chaoswzkd said:

there's no jarring head-shake and no sudden loss of firing if you tap the movement keys. I imagine it will be quite strange to both new and old players.

This happens for a variety of other things we currently offer in-game, and I've not once seen a complaint about it.

  • Attempting to shoot an RPAT while loaded.
  • Attempting to reload an RPAT while moving.
  • Attempting to remove a rifle grenade cup while loaded.
  • Attempting to fire in an enemy spawn point.
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds good.  Looking forward to more fire support and less rambo dancing from LMGs.  

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sounds good, will you also look at their deployment animations? they like to keep their heads and chest's exposed while deployed, and the gun clips 1m from the deployment area

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this still let people drop-shot with it or is that aspect fixed too? So if you are standing still shooting, can you continue to fire it while moving into the prone position? I could care less about the walking and firing, the drop shotting with lmgs drives me crazy!

Edited by dfire
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, dfire said:

Does this still let people drop-shot with it or is that aspect fixed too? So if you are standing still shooting, can you continue to fire it while moving into the prone position? Drop shotting with lmgs drives me crazy. Its even more unrealistic than the walking hip fire!

Aka dolphin diving if you ever played BF2.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Capco said:

Aka dolphin diving if you ever played BF2.  

lol yeah. 

Because if drop-shooting isn't fixed too, that going to be people's new go-to move with the LMGs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sounds very stupid, bottom line up front an attacking soldier places maximum firepower towards its objective, you already crippled the LMGs by making them pause 2 secs to go prone to set up the bipod.   This is what you get with non-military personnel making war game decisions.  Why lose more gamers?  all the constraints and restraints have a huge effect on participation, why do you think you have suck a large number of free to play gamers?  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

Fair question:
As xoom mentioned, the reloading is not a simple thing that can simply be adjusted.
We are kind of stuck for now with the method originally designed for it, which is pretty solidly pinned to the granny animations.
You basically have to kind of remodel the whole trooper to change it.

In that same mechanism, no original facility was made for say putting three rounds in a revolver and then halting the reload to try an use those three rounds
to dispatch some knife wielding mad man running at you.

Same for a rifle that uses multiple strippers to fully load, or a sniper rifle than is hand loading due to scope mounting.

That would require the creation of a new code supported mechanic, as well as a new animation system that can follow the mechanic and have interruptible points

It would not be the kind of thing that would be quickly doable, and would pull resources from other things that you would probably rather see first.
They would be nice additions at some later time when more pressing things have been addressed and such.

I understand that, and the quick fix would be to tweak the reload times of some of these weapons a bit. Your being forced to fully reload a pistol why being chased by a knife wielding madman was a classic example. another would be a sniper target totally disappearing because the sniper can't just load two bullets. I think your under-estimating it's importance, however. Granted not as important to your LMG stormtroopers, I would imagine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, XOOM said:

This happens for a variety of other things we currently offer in-game, and I've not once seen a complaint about it.

  • Attempting to shoot an RPAT while loaded.
  • Attempting to reload an RPAT while moving.
  • Attempting to remove a rifle grenade cup while loaded.
  • Attempting to fire in an enemy spawn point.

Oh, then I must not have complained about it to you, lol. I'm definitely not a fan. It's quite intrusive, and I have personally heard complaints from other players, though that's typically with the "can't prone/un-prone" spam in tight areas iirc.

But yeah, hopefully people don't have a problem with it here. Here's hoping!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ah64e said:

sounds very stupid, bottom line up front an attacking soldier places maximum firepower towards its objective, you already crippled the LMGs by making them pause 2 secs to go prone to set up the bipod.   This is what you get with non-military personnel making war game decisions.  Why lose more gamers?  all the constraints and restraints have a huge effect on participation, why do you think you have suck a large number of free to play gamers?  

Players will still be able to shoot without bipod deployment. They will however have to maintain a stable position in order to manage the weapons recoil.

We have several military personnel on our team, including current active duty leadership who would clearly state that this would not only be something they'd chew their soldiers asses out for, it's primarily in effective. If they're going to suppress it'll require a stable position, and running around firing is contradicting that.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.