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XOOM

LMG Solution Planned

347 posts in this topic

47 minutes ago, gt3076r said:

Lol argue all you want. Like I said rat knows this affects axis negatively and positive for allies.

I'm just not tracking, I guess.  When folks say the rambo LMG stuff is crappy gameplay, they aren't referring to just the axis side.  In defense of said crappy rambo lmg gameplay, some are now stating that the problem doesn't exist, i.e. 'is a myth'.  Other would have me believe that it is either:  Not crappy gameplay, or is 'necessary' crappy gameplay due to it somehow helping the axis side more than the allied side-----and it's somehow unfair that the problem (if it exists) is being fixed across the board.

Questions:   If the problem doesn't exist, then how will fixing it adversely effect anyone?      

If the problem does exist, how could NOT fixing it be a 'good thing' for the game?

If it isn't an unfair advantage for the axis players (as some have said), then why would it effect the axis more negatively than the Allies?

If it is an unfair advantage to the axis players, then isn't it high time it was fixed for everyone?

 

The questions are rhetorical, I must admit, as I have seen rambo LMGs on both sides----it is crappy gameplay-----it should be fixed------I don't care if it's an unfair advantage to the axis players that is being done away with, (it is a problem that simply put, needs fixing regardless of who benefits from not fixing it).

 

The pending fix will solve the issue of rambo lmgs for everyone, allowing CRS to concentrate on the next gameplay issue that is (or has been) identified. 

 

For the record, the MG34 is a nasty weapon (as it should be), and when I stupidly run across a field trying to get to a depot and get lit up by one, (as happens all too often) I have zero problem with the results, (other than feeling a little dumber than I would prefer).  When an MG 34 runs up a flight of stairs, and kills 4 (including me) despite having to hit:   1 to his 90degree right, 1 to his 90 degree left, 1 110 or so degrees to his left and 1 to his left rear----ALL while being shot at by 4 veteran troops who are there specifically to watch out for axis troops, it is gamey crappy gameplay that causes people to log off, I've seen it dozens upon dozens of times in my years in this game, (ask around and most will point out that I can be found guarding a bunker on a fairly regular basis.  I would imagine that when a bren clears a room of german troops similarly, it also causes anger based on the gamey-ness of the crappy gameplay.  To say it doesn't exist it BS.  To say the fix adversely effect the axis players more than Allied players is both BS, and an admission that relying on gamey crappy play-styles is something that is depended on by the axis players, which isn't fair to the vast majority of axis players who don't do such things.

 

Fix the problem, and move on the the next problem, I say. 

 

S!

Edited by augetout
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statistically, the german LMG has been significantly better. it still will be after the change to all LMGs that move them to more of a support role and less of a jog n gun role.

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I am surprised people don't want the Modello SMG muted, killed, reduced, squashed, dumbed down and made to speak French.

;)

It certainly is the best SMG or LMG or Tank or plane or ship for that matter in the game.

HAH!

S!

ps... Apologies to French speakers! Of which there are many in my family. 

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28 minutes ago, Elfin said:

I am surprised people don't want the Modello SMG muted, killed, reduced, squashed, dumbed down and made to speak French.

;)

It certainly is the best SMG or LMG or Tank or plane or ship for that matter in the game.

HAH!

S!

ps... Apologies to French speakers! Of which there are many in my family. 

Plenty of such comments in this thread already, wanting dispersion/accuracy of MG34 "fixed" and moaning about the FG42.

I keep reading about lasers, but I thought most bullets moved in a straight line, discounting their gravitational "drop" towards the earth, after all we have no effect from the wind in this game. Maybe some guys can fire their bullets with a side ways trajectory? That might explain some of my many deaths before Rambo SMGs render to me as having entered the CP I am guarding! :)

 

S! Ian

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21 minutes ago, ian77 said:

Plenty of such comments in this thread already, wanting dispersion/accuracy of MG34 "fixed" and moaning about the FG42.

I keep reading about lasers, but I thought most bullets moved in a straight line, discounting their gravitational "drop" towards the earth, after all we have no effect from the wind in this game. Maybe some guys can fire their bullets with a side ways trajectory? That might explain some of my many deaths before Rambo SMGs render to me as having entered the CP I am guarding! :)

 

S! Ian

I just hope they leave the Modello alone. ;)

It is a great weapon...lots of fun. Almost as deadly as the Thompson, which is a wicked instrument of close up "death" which in so many ways balances out the "differential"... the MP 40, while better than it was, still is, well... not as good as the old Thompson (in the right hands that is).

I actually hardly use the LMG 34 anymore....been trying to improve my rifle skills and semi-auto rifle skills....which is a challenge, as the neurons are not what they used to be. ha ha.

S!

 

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26 minutes ago, ian77 said:

Plenty of such comments in this thread already, wanting dispersion/accuracy of MG34 "fixed" and moaning about the FG42.

I keep reading about lasers, but I thought most bullets moved in a straight line, discounting their gravitational "drop" towards the earth, after all we have no effect from the wind in this game. Maybe some guys can fire their bullets with a side ways trajectory? That might explain some of my many deaths before Rambo SMGs render to me as having entered the CP I am guarding! :)

 

S! Ian

There's actually a slight rise before it drops.  

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16 hours ago, XOOM said:

Sprinting with the LMG and firing indeed does not work.

However because our standard W key really acts like a jog (not a walk, which is W+T), I think that may be what they're referring to.

I think they're arguing semantics, obviously you cannot sprint and fire with any weapon. The run and gun is when you're sprinting through a cp/ab with an LMG and stop holding down shift (still holding down W to move though) and then spray while moving. Just because you're not holding down shift when firing doesn't mean there's not an inherent advantage of getting close and still moving while firing in a short amount of time. The LMG and especially the fire rate of the German LMG just decimates those in front of it regardless of the minimal climb/recoil, your target will be gone with simply holding down the fire button. 

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4 hours ago, xanthus said:

 

yes - it's called the ballistic arc....  when initially fired, rounds tend to rise then at some point gravity does its thing and they begin to drop.  The 'zero' point is where that round recrosses the line of aim (but on a downward trajectory).  

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/ballistics-for-dummies/83897#

 

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6 hours ago, xanthus said:

And choad is right (as usual): Aside from the grease gun, it's been demonstrated offline over and over and over that Allied SMGs have *more* not less dispersion than the MP-40 (have you ever even fired the MAS-38??). It's safe to say this is just as true for the Beretta M 38 as well (which might very well be the best SMG overall in the game).

 

The thing that bugs me the most is that my fellow Axis vets KNOW this all: They KNOW that jogging while full-auto firing the MG-34 is F-ing dumb cartoon BS. They KNOW that all but the Grease Gun are LESS accurate than the MP-40, nevermind the awesome Modello 38 (and you KNOW it's an awesome SMG). They know these things but they come on this forum and say the opposite. It's insane.

the MP40 has the worst screen shake and barrel hop. they're all inaccurate (1000-2000%... yes not 100-200%), but the MP40 is the most unpleasant to shoot

the thing about the grease gun is it got a fix, while the MP34 didn't. statistically the MP34 is the worst auto in game, with legitimate bugs.

 

the grease gun can stay on target, the axis SMG's (excluding the modello) cannot.

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Regarding whether or not the LMG changes hit Allies as much as Axis, anecdotally I can say that I've seen several Axis players use LMGs to clear cps/bunk, while Allies rely on the Thompson. Literally saw one guy kill like 5+ defenders in a bunker running and gunning in a sustained burst with a Thompson. That's similar to anecdotes from Allied players about MG34 abuse, but at least the Thompson is an SMG intended for short-range shoot-to-kill burst fire.

So anecdotally, I have a perception of it hitting Axis more because I don't see Allies doing it with LMGs; that doesn't mean they don't do it, just that I don't see them doing it.

It could be that that perception is shared by more people, and so this change seems that it will be more impactful toward Axis than Allies.

Regardless, though, the change hits all LMGs, so now neither side can do it regardless of how often they do. If it's a tactic Axis employed more often then they'll have to change their tactics. Jogging while essentially firing a fully-automatic shotgun (600+ rpm sustained spray plus dispersion might as well be buckshot spray) and clearing corners and rooms as fast as you can move your mouse is pretty ridiculous for a game that sells itself as attempting to be a realistic experience, and just because one side may or may not favor it doesn't mean it should somehow be kept holy and sacred and protected from adjustments.

If you're an Axis player and are upset at this, look back on the bomb changes last year and see how you reacted to the Allies getting upset about not blowing open tanks with anything less than a direct hit. Even though it affected both sides, Allied Air is a lot more active and thus the change technically affected them more. If you responded "but it made the game more realistic!" at that time but aren't saying it now, then you're looking pretty darn hypocritical and ridiculous right now.

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Given the cut in the number of SMGs on the allied side, you are more likely to see more rifles trying to run and gun.

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2 hours ago, Elfin said:

I just hope they leave the Modello alone. ;)

It is a great weapon...lots of fun. Almost as deadly as the Thompson, which is a wicked instrument of close up "death" which in so many ways balances out the "differential"... the MP 40, while better than it was, still is, well... not as good as the old Thompson (in the right hands that is).

I actually hardly use the LMG 34 anymore....been trying to improve my rifle skills and semi-auto rifle skills....which is a challenge, as the neurons are not what they used to be. ha ha.

S!

 

The Modello is a great smg, I see no reason why it should be "fixed", I dont know what is wrong with it. Its the best (ATM) long range smg in the game, followed very closely by the Grease gun.  The funny thing is that once the smg audits the mp34 should be the very best long ranged smg in the game.  We will see.  I also love the Sten, its the allied MP40. I find very little difference between the two.  The Thompson will still hold king smg for depot clearing. IMO, I like each SMG for what they are.. while many dont like the Mas38, I love that little smg and will like it even more once the audit is in being it should have little recoil and IF all the smgs get their barrel flash reduced and not spitting flames I think the opinion of the MAS38 will change.

Personally, I like the proposed solutions and I would hope to see at some point the animation change for running with them for immersion so the LMGs on the run show the avatar using the carry handles.

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Look, the LMG fix is coming because there's an obvious immersion killing issue at play. It's not because the Allies don't like the MG34, and it doesn't permit the initiation of a witch hunt of weaponry that you die from routinely. 

I have said it very clearly: We are not going out of our way to target weapons, as being described in the case of the Modello or other weaponry that may be receiving some thoughts on.

So stop right there with this seeking to sway the development or production team to make intentional biased oriented tweaks that fit your goals and desires.

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2 hours ago, B2K said:

There's actually a slight rise before it drops.  

Really? I thought that was just down to my sights being set to 200m and my target being closer. It is nice to learn something new.

I was of course just being flippant in that post referencing lasers, but I should very much like to know what causes the slight rise, is it an effect of the rifling and the air, or the hot gas discharged?

Way too many clever and informed peeps round here! :P 

S! Ian

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3 hours ago, lutenint said:

I think they're arguing semantics, obviously you cannot sprint and fire with any weapon. The run and gun is when you're sprinting through a cp/ab with an LMG and stop holding down shift (still holding down W to move though) and then spray while moving. Just because you're not holding down shift when firing doesn't mean there's not an inherent advantage of getting close and still moving while firing in a short amount of time. The LMG and especially the fire rate of the German LMG just decimates those in front of it regardless of the minimal climb/recoil, your target will be gone with simply holding down the fire button. 

This is no doubt achieved with the Bren and FM24/29 on the Allied side. Regardless of how you slice it, it's just not great for game play. It doesn't work to improve anyone's experience except for the person exploiting the keys in the fashion that they do. It's gamey across the board.

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1 minute ago, XOOM said:

Look, the LMG fix is coming because there's an obvious immersion killing issue at play. It's not because the Allies don't like the MG34, and it doesn't permit the initiation of a witch hunt of weaponry that you die from routinely. 

I have said it very clearly: We are not going out of our way to target weapons, as being described in the case of the Modello or other weaponry that may be receiving some thoughts on.

So stop right there with this seeking to sway the development or production team to make intentional biased oriented tweaks that fit your goals and desires.

CC 100%  -  but I think the posts were pretty much tongue in cheek, but I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time!

Running and shooting is just wrong, and stationary to fire all LMGs is a good fix. just need to fix the rest of the running and shooting. :) 

S! Ian

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9 hours ago, frantish said:

I will miss being Rambo  :(

 

:P

Maybe give players a Rambo mode, with all restrictions removed on their 100th, 200th, 300th etc sortie each campaign 

 

reward players who log sorties 

 

 

 

 

just an idea

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Killing hessu, slpkfor, itsbrad, shagher, cucal, rebaba inside a cp when they're using an lmg it's as hard as killing gretnine, xohorvath, erasmo, mobius, bar, lob12, matamor when they're using an smg. The problem is not the lmg, the problem is that now we have less good players and more whining players than 3 years ago.

Lmgs are premium weapons and they should be the best weapons in game along with semiauto rifles, I don't really understand why CRS want to nerf a premium weapon, you are devaluating your own product.

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2 hours ago, sydspain said:

Killing hessu, slpkfor, itsbrad, shagher, cucal, rebaba inside a cp when they're using an lmg it's as hard as killing gretnine, xohorvath, erasmo, mobius, bar, lob12, matamor when they're using an smg. The problem is not the lmg, the problem is that now we have less good players and more whining players than 3 years ago.

Lmgs are premium weapons and they should be the best weapons in game along with semiauto rifles, I don't really understand why CRS want to nerf a premium weapon, you are devaluating your own product.

Having the weapon perform in a more accurate way is NOT a nerf.  Rambo LMGs have been an issue for years, and may very well have contributed to the 'less good players and more whining players than 3 years ago) anaylysis of yours.  Improving gameplay  by rectifying a long-standing issue with the LMGs is not devalluating the product---quite the opposite.  

 

S!

 

 

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4 hours ago, sydspain said:

Killing hessu, slpkfor, itsbrad, shagher, cucal, rebaba inside a cp when they're using an lmg it's as hard as killing gretnine, xohorvath, erasmo, mobius, bar, lob12, matamor when they're using an smg. The problem is not the lmg, the problem is that now we have less good players and more whining players than 3 years ago.

Lmgs are premium weapons and they should be the best weapons in game along with semiauto rifles, I don't really understand why CRS want to nerf a premium weapon, you are devaluating your own product.

They are not being nerfed, just fixed to stop unrealistic use. We should be fixing the other hand held weapons as well, no running and firing anything except a pistol, and even then you should really struggle to hit anything.

 

S! Ian

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If you limit the use of a weapon, you are reducing your power. If there were people who only play lmg, it could be the case that these people stop playing, or at least stop paying and go to a free account.


If you had the option of spawning 10 tigers and changing it to 2, there might be people who are not interested in paying, since never or very few times, they can get a tiger. This is a fact. They are subscriptions that you lose. If, implementing this fact, you get more new subscribers, than people who leave because of this, you will have succeeded. If there are more people who leave the game for this reason than the people who return to the game because of this change, you have made a mistake. And I'm afraid it will be the second option that will happen


You are talking about realism. It is unreal to shoot a lmg running and hit, as it is to shoot running a smg and hit. If you want to avoid this, expand the dispersion when you walk or run, but do not PREVENT using it in this way. If I am in a narrow corridor running with a lmg and shoot an enemy  at 5 meters (this is what happens inside a cp) I am sure that I will hit some of my shots. Obviously, if I am in the open field and shoot an ei at 15 meters while I run there are many chances that it does not work.
 

In summary, if you do not like to use a running lmg, increases the dispersion of the weapon, but do not prevent its use.

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7 hours ago, nerco250 said:

In summary, if you do not like to use a running lmg, increases the dispersion of the weapon, but do not prevent its use.

The issue with increasing dispersion is that all you end up doing is rendering it even more similar to a fully automatic shotgun. It's not a valid fix because it can make the weapon even more useful to clearing out rooms.

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12 hours ago, augetout said:

Having the weapon perform in a more accurate way is NOT a nerf.  Rambo LMGs have been an issue for years, and may very well have contributed to the 'less good players and more whining players than 3 years ago) anaylysis of yours.  Improving gameplay  by rectifying a long-standing issue with the LMGs is not devalluating the product---quite the opposite. 

We'll save this and all the other statements made by Allied "realists" the next time an Allied advantage gets, ahem, "fixed." Undoubtedly they'll say exactly the same thing.  Won't they?  Hmmmm?  For sure they will say the exact same thing, Right?

VR

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