XOOM

LMG Solution Planned

347 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, ah64e said:

sounds very stupid, bottom line up front an attacking soldier places maximum firepower towards its objective, you already crippled the LMGs by making them pause 2 secs to go prone to set up the bipod.   This is what you get with non-military personnel making war game decisions.  Why lose more gamers?  all the constraints and restraints have a huge effect on participation, why do you think you have suck a large number of free to play gamers?  

I don't know, every 'movement to contact'/'assault the objective' I ever went on involved LMG's laying suppression fire and shifting as the non-LMG  Soldiers swept across the objective.   Not charging across the objective alongside all the rest of the squad.   

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13 minutes ago, major0noob said:

sounds good, will you also look at their deployment animations? they like to keep their heads and chest's exposed while deployed, and the gun clips 1m from the deployment area

This next, please.

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9 minutes ago, ah64e said:

This is what you get with non-military personnel making war game decisions.

For what it is worth, there are a good number of us here that are both prior and present service
both old school stone age, and present modern.
So that is really an unfair thing to say.

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18 minutes ago, B2K said:

I don't know, every 'movement to contact'/'assault the objective' I ever went on involved LMG's laying suppression fire and shifting as the non-LMG  Soldiers swept across the objective.   Not charging across the objective alongside all the rest of the squad.     

For as good as the LMG is at ramboing, it's even better at laying down suppression fire.  This is going to be a blessing in disguise for a lot of folks.  

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15 minutes ago, dfire said:

Does this still let people drop-shot with it or is that aspect fixed too? So if you are standing still shooting, can you continue to fire it while moving into the prone position? I could care less about the walking and firing, the drop shotting with lmgs drives me crazy!

Your character must not be in motion. So I did a little bit of testing and if you're running then decide to drop, it'll take a second before you can shoot. The logic says the character must not be in motion. So if any LMG starts running and decides to drop / pull the trigger fast, it won't go probably as fast as it does today.

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Time for me to seriously reconsider my Hero membership because of this.  This is a line that has been crossed with me, that cannot be re-crossed by the Rats.  It is a distinct loss of faith, by me, in their ability to consider the needs of the Axis playerbase.  They've already cut SMGs to the bone listening to the Neat Idea Fairies, now this.

So, to be fair, I ask, what are the Allies going to be required to give up, that is unique to their side, that is a distinct advantage for them?  Just to be fair, of course.

VR

Edited by csm308
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1 minute ago, csm308 said:

Time for me to seriously reconsider my Hero membership because of this.

VR

Why? We've tried to be as conservative as possible with these solutions. This will affect the entire LMG class, without bias.

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2 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Why? We've tried to be as conservative as possible with these solutions. This will affect the entire LMG class, without bias.

That's just it, It will not affect both playerbases evenly.  If you can't see that, you are hopeless.

VR

Edited by csm308
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11 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Your character must not be in motion. So I did a little bit of testing and if you're running then decide to drop, it'll take a second before you can shoot. The logic says the character must not be in motion. So if any LMG starts running and decides to drop / pull the trigger fast, it won't go probably as fast as it does today.

Cool thank you

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7 minutes ago, csm308 said:

That's just it, It will not affect both playerbases evenly.  If you can't see that, you are hopeless.

VR

As I stated above, this will be a blessing in disguise for LMG users.

 

The Axis LMG is still far superior to the Allied LMGs at cutting.  No ammo box in the way of your LOS, 50 rounds, very accurate, very high rate of fire.  

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10 minutes ago, csm308 said:

That's just it, It will not affect both playerbases evenly.  If you can't see that, you are hopeless.

VR

Well, each of these weapons fall into the same LMG category. The changes are applied to them unbiasedly. So if I look at your commentary, I think you're looking at other things from an Axis perspective saying purely the MG34 makes up the difference for something else. Yet... all that is being proposed is that you can't run around rambo / terminator style to clear CQB environments. The key word there was "run." You can still hip fire, and lay down some pretty good fire. You just can't run around / reload (a belt fed drum magazine) etc. 

The Allied Bren and FM24/29 are receiving the same treatment, when in reality, these are magazine feed weapons and are much easier to reload and are lighter overall. MG34 = 26.7lbs, FM24/29 = 19.7lbs, Bren = 25lbs.

Look I'm not trying to pick on anyone side, that's why we have made the effort to ensure we be very fair about these changes. I'll continue to say without bias and without going out of our way to target any weapon or its performance properties.

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Well, hope allies happy.

Now have the best tank, ATG, armored car, fighter, bomber and bolt rifle;  rest being equal.

I suppose our Flak 38 is better than allied light AA.... we get one maybe.

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8 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Well, each of these weapons fall into the same LMG category. The changes are applied to them unbiasedly. So if I look at your commentary, I think you're looking at other things from an Axis perspective saying purely the MG34 makes up the difference for something else. Yet... all that is being proposed is that you can't run around rambo / terminator style to clear CQB environments. The key word there was "run." You can still hip fire, and lay down some pretty good fire. You just can't run around / reload (a belt fed drum magazine) etc. 

The Allied Bren and FM24/29 are receiving the same treatment, when in reality, these are magazine feed weapons and are much easier to reload and are lighter overall. MG34 = 26.7lbs, FM24/29 = 19.7lbs, Bren = 25lbs.

Look I'm not trying to pick on anyone side, that's why we have made the effort to ensure we be very fair about these changes. I'll continue to say without bias and without going out of our way to target any weapon or its performance properties.

The Axis playerbase is not going to look at it this way XOOM. Just look at who the VAST majority of positive responders in this thread are.  You can say "be very fair" all you like.  The Allies have wanted this FOR YEARS, and now you have given it to them.

I'll bet money you're not even going to increase the SMG supply either.  I personally, have only used the "Rambo LMG" when SMGs were no longer available in the supply and now you have taken that away in addition to cutting SMGs to the bone.  I guess we're going to be left with chasing each other around the buildings reloading rifles, pistols, and knives from now on.  Great move that.

VR

Edited by csm308

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Regarding many of the other interesting infantry-weapon ideas mentioned here:

Quote

They would be nice additions at some later time when more pressing things have been addressed and such.

+1. Keep them on the list.

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10 minutes ago, csm308 said:

The Axis playerbase is not going to look at it this way XOOM.  You can say "be very fair" all you like.  The Allies have wanted this FOR YEARS, and now you have given it to them.

I'll bet money you're not even going to increase the SMG supply either.  I personally, have only used the "Rambo LMG" when SMGs were no longer available in the supply and now you have taken that away in addition to cutting SMGs to the bone.  I guess we're going to be left with chasing each other around the buildings reloading rifles, pistols, and knives from now on.  Great move that.

VR

The Allies have appeared to have complained about the MG34 for years, I will agree with that, as any player who consistently gets destroyed by a weapon would.

I don't think the Allies were expecting their LMGs to receive similar treatment. These weapons are often used and should not be undervalued, nor the effect it may have on their players. 

@OHM Has been watching over the SMG supply and we've been proactive and acquiring feedback from multiple platforms, but most importantly from players directly in the game. We're not quite "done" with supply levels yet, and have certainly added more SMG's into the equation since our first iteration.

I'll leave you with a subtle hint that I will expand on "soon." I know the Axis have taken this a little bit harder (the old thread and subsequent threads about the MG34 make that clear), but I do have something in store coming that they've been waiting for to help with this disappointment that some may be experiencing. A cryptic ending, no less.

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Just now, XOOM said:

The Allies have appeared to have complained about the MG34 for years, I will agree with that, as any player who consistently gets destroyed by a weapon would.

I don't think the Allies were expecting their LMGs to receive similar treatment. These weapons are often used and should not be undervalued, nor the effect it may have on their players. 

@OHM Has been watching over the SMG supply and we've been proactive and acquiring feedback from multiple platforms, but most importantly from players directly in the game. We're not quite "done" with supply levels yet, and have certainly added more SMG's into the equation since our first iteration.

I'll leave you with a subtle hint that I will expand on "soon." I know the Axis will have take this a little bit harder, but I do have something in store coming that they've been waiting for to help with this. A cryptic ending, no less.

There is no "appeared to have" complained about it at all.  It is an undeniable fact that neutering the LMG 34 has been an Allied shibboleth from the very beginning of this game.  The Axis WILL take this harder, no ifs, ands or buts.

Oh, you should know by now to never use "soon."  It means we might see it in my lifetime, but probably not.  If its not within the next 30 days, you shouldn't have mentioned it at all.

VR

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Take side bias glasses off when analyzing the overall effect this will have on the game.

It was a well needed, long time adjustment to ALL Lmg's

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The mg34 is one of my favorite weapons to use over the years, and have hardly ever went Rambo and when I did I died a quick death without hitting anyone. That being said I could care less about this, but do consider it micro-managing and a waste of time that could be better put someplace else.

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4 minutes ago, delems said:

...best tank, (...) armored car

I assume you mean for T0. Obviously the Tiger is the best tank in-game overall.

Maybe eventually certain specialty tanks (particularly intro-tier Matilda II [not CS] and intro-tier Tiger I) can be concentrated into a small number of brigades per side. Everywhere else: no specialty tanks.

Maybe eventually all wheeled vehicles, including ACs, will be considerably slowed offroad. If the Allies have the best AC, that will affect them most.

4 minutes ago, csm308 said:

...neutering the LMG...

Seems like too strong a word. It'll continue to be the best-performance LMG by far, as it historically should. It'll just be more of a team weapon, as it historically should, instead of an independent run-and-gun weapon.

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1 hour ago, major0noob said:

sounds good, will you also look at their deployment animations? they like to keep their heads and chest's exposed while deployed, and the gun clips 1m from the deployment area

That's because the POV camera was always in the middle of the chest, the old code wasn't nuanced enough to move the view/firing point when changing positions. Another big redesign task to change.

 

Big fan of this change, will address a lot of gripes. SMGs are for assaulting rooms, LMGs are for suppressive fire.

Edited by mdundee
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1 hour ago, Capco said:

For as good as the LMG is at ramboing, it's even better at laying down suppression fire.  This is going to be a blessing in disguise for a lot of folks.  

Not really, in the absence of friendly fire damage, it will still be gamey. 

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Hmmm, we didnt u just code in that the lmg can not capture an enemy CP ?

Because that is basically all that was accomplished here, no way an lmg will be able to cap a defended enemy CP...u stand still u die

Better solution would have been to just not allow the lmg to cap an enemy CP and leave the freaking lmgs alone

They been in-game for what 15+ years or so ? And u screw with them now ? 

I oppose this because its a nerf disguised as a 'fix' for all lmgs... it's also kind of upsetting you think we are not smart enough to see it

Allies been complaining and wanting this for years, saying every campaign top lmg guys are axis while never admitting all top bombers are allied every freaking campaign. To show us as a lack of intelligence kind of pisses me off. And also telling us "ahh its a support weapon" blah blah...we can use it however we wish and you nerfed it, u know it and we all know it..allies too but they just won't admit it

And to dangle the Panther arrival is kind of condescending ..i will screw them here but give them this to try and make up for it

Nothing personal, just business 

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