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XOOM

LMG Solution Planned

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delems

They're only asking for more mg34 dispersion, more FG-42 dispersion and better Brit LMG......  so far.

And, allies will now gain 100s of bars (that fire on the move) that axis will have no counter to anymore as FG-42 is in FJ units.

Funny, still haven't heard of one axis issue being addressed.  Take that back, we got the Flak 38, which I do appreciate.

Edited by delems

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madrebel
21 minutes ago, delems said:

They're only asking for more mg34 dispersion, more FG-42 dispersion and better Brit LMG......  so far.

And, allies will now gain 100s of bars (that fire on the move) that axis will have no counter to anymore as FG-42 is in FJ units.

Funny, still haven't heard of one axis issue being addressed.  Take that back, we got the Flak 38, which I do appreciate.

are you saying the dispersion is correct as is?

STG-44

109 flop. flak37 and flak38. 190A3b in tier2. 109F2 in tier0. 109F4 in t1. numpad instrument view to make it easier to mange the 88. pak36's performance significantly increased. smgs recently rightfully increased in number. AFVs in infantry brigades recently increased, likely will get bumped again cause its boring as is still. stress modeling on the table for aircraft to limit what the A20s can do with bombs on board. what else am i forgetting?

about the only thing CRS hasn't delivered is something to solve whatever it is that is causing your constant stream of tears. what would that be delems? the pzj1? will that finally make you stfu?

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Capco

Couple things about the MG34 that I know of off-hand:

-it had a high rate of fire

-it had interchangeable barrels

-it was machined with very high tolerances (hence the development of the subsequent, manufacturing-friendly MG42)

 

The MG34 should be reasonably accurate on a bullet for bullet basis, but that rate of fire it sports does impart some degree of inaccuracy as well.  

 

Regardless, wherever the end result is for CRS, the Bren SHOULD end up being the more accurate LMG when deployed.  Every single source and anecdote I know of confirms this.  

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XOOM

No other changes to these weapons other then that has been described by me here will accompany the LMG class.

As I’ve said the small arms audit will see some modifications / enhancements but will be released in full and will cover all the infantry weapons. Some limited testing on this has made things better.

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krazydog

I am not happy about nerfing of my favorite LMG weapon, but I will live with it.  But to be perfectly honest my anger toward CRS is really building up these days, and my biggest issue is the MASSIVE TANK IMBALANCES the last 2 campaigns.

 The Allies have been using the BR ITISH NFANTRY FLAGS as extra ARMOR flags.  Axis tanker life has been miserable lately (even while winning these campaigns). 

The 88s are not one-to-one compensation for extra Matties and Churchills  in the infantry flags. The 88s are too fragile in this game - they are very hard to move and so do not live long.  We are given just STUGs which do not even have machine guns for infantry.

And why do British get 17 sappers to the axis 10 sappers in Infantry flags too?  Isn’t the massive armor imbalance they have enough?

And please dont tell me all these Matties are historical - there were only about 50 of Matties in France total during the war in France. 

If CRS wan’t to make historical TOEs, remeber the BEF was only about 20 percent of the Allied forces in France, not 40 percent like we got now.  The british flags are spread out all over the map and the matties (and now churchills)  are in about 65 percent of all battles.  If not more (Not historical).

THIS TANKING IMBALANNCE MUST BE FIXED SOON

I am seriously very close to cancelling my long-running premium subscription with CRS. because of this tanking imbalance, and the LMG nerf is not helping my attitude toward CRS at all right now.

Edited by krazydog
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gipper

wooooooot!

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eagle

 I'm sure the allies are happy now !  and most here are allied loving it !its cool but for me its not ! Lmg m34 will never cap a cp again ! for the allies that's an awesome thing ! you will win now !like it was said because of this allies lose which is a bunch of horses--t ,but ok ! axis side seems to get there equipment nerfed over the years 88, planes, tanks, atgs ! now this the one weapon . I don't care what anyone says I've played all these weapons for I don't know about 15-16 years now I knew what they could do then all of a sudden they couldn't either they have been nerfed or the allied side was made stronger ! there is a lot of things in this game that are not historic ! allied tanks to start , I know it wont matter what I say or do, but wish you all the best ! good luck axis when the patch happens I will save a lil $ now TY for the many years of fun !S axis and good luck !

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TMAN

I hope you reconsider Eagle.  I hated the RPAT when you can't be loaded and run.... many things drive us crazy but we do adapt.  Shifting the use of the LMG's to a more historical use has been in the works for a long time.  It will take some getting used to and a change of tactics but I'm sure we will adapt its best use.  It's my favorite weapon too.  Be patient here... more good stuff to come and the LMG change will be an old nightmare :)

S!

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SCKING
18 minutes ago, eagle said:

Lmg m34 will never cap a cp again !

Just to clarify for everyone, no changes are being made with regards to the ability of the LMG to cap or defend a facility.

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ian77
17 minutes ago, TMAN said:

I hope you reconsider Eagle.  I hated the RPAT when you can't be loaded and run.... many things drive us crazy but we do adapt.  Shifting the use of the LMG's to a more historical use has been in the works for a long time.  It will take some getting used to and a change of tactics but I'm sure we will adapt its best use.  It's my favorite weapon too.  Be patient here... more good stuff to come and the LMG change will be an old nightmare :)

S!

+1

S!

 

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krazydog
12 minutes ago, SCKING said:

Just to clarify for everyone, no changes are being made with regards to the ability of the LMG to cap or defend a facility.

I think he is implying what will be the result from player behavior.  Not from technical obstacles due to new game mechanics.

My only concern about the LMG now is it really won’t have much of a role in the game (and it was my favorite weapon).  

You guys are going to nerf it without adding suppression fire for the LMG so it still has some kind of advantage, and could be used historically.

I have always argued for giving the lmg suppression fire. Not keeping rambo lmgs.

Edited by krazydog

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SCKING
18 minutes ago, krazydog said:

I think he is implying what will be the result from player behavior.  Not from technical obstacles due to new game mechanics.

I know he was implying, I just wanted to make sure no one else misunderstood it thinking that capturing CPs were changing as well.

 

19 minutes ago, krazydog said:

I have always argued for giving the lmg suppression fire. Not keeping rambo lmgs.

I hope some day we can get something like good suppression as well. Its something that will take some time because it would need dev resources which are extremely limited at the moment as they are all on 1.36.

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krazydog
3 minutes ago, SCKING said:

 

 

I hope some day we can get something like good suppression as well. Its something that will take some time because it would need dev resources which are extremely limited at the moment as they are all on 1.36.

I am no coder, but I think the quickest way to implement suppression fire for lmgs would be to go back and look at the old code for concussion effects from bombs.

When you think about it the basic process of influencing infantry actions from near misses of weapons  - it is kind of similar.

We just don’t need that loud ringing noise in our ears all the time like the old concussion affect use to have.  It gave people headaches.  

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OLDZEKE
11 minutes ago, krazydog said:

I am no coder, but I think the quickest way to implement suppression fire for lmgs would be to go back and look at the old code for concussion effects from bombs.

When you think about it the basic process of influencing infantry actions from near misses of weapons  - it is kind of similar.

We just don’t need that loud ringing noise in our ears all the time like the old concussion affect use to have.  It gave people headaches.  

Concussion is being looked at. And I agree that that ringing is not a "feature" that I desire either. I worked in the coal mines around too much noise and my ears ring too much as is (tinnitus).

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xanthus
18 minutes ago, OLDZEKE said:

Concussion is being looked at. And I agree that that ringing is not a "feature" that I desire either. I worked in the coal mines around too much noise and my ears ring too much as is (tinnitus).

LOL, finally someone said it!!!

The ringing noise effect is *seriously* bad for my hearing.....tinnitus-activating for sure.

 

As far as suppression, yep, I totally agree: Without suppression effects, we won't see weapons like the MG-34 have the real tactical role and battlefield significance it should have. Nevertheless, this change is still far better than the way it was before. Can't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good."

I hate to harp on this, but if you want to see an excellent implementation of the MG-34 in a video game, Post Scriptum is the best I've seen. A well-placed MG-34 or MG-42 makes all the difference, and it can completely neuter an enemy squad (even though MGers usually don't have very high kill counts in the game, they are arguably the single most critical unit, especially for the Germans). Incidentally, the MG-34's dispersion is *way* higher in PS (by design; more dispersion = better suppression). CRS should take notes.

Edited by xanthus
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jw

A very welcome change TBH, and I have played both sides extensively, probably more Axis than Allies, I’m max rank infantry bothe sides and you don’t get that unless you play both sides. This will affect all lmgs’  as stated. Why is that a deal breaker? 

Edited by jw
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krazydog
1 hour ago, xanthus said:

LOL, finally someone said it!!!

The ringing noise effect is *seriously* bad for my hearing.....tinnitus-activating for sure.

 

As far as suppression, yep, I totally agree: Without suppression effects, we won't see weapons like the MG-34 have the real tactical role and battlefield significance it should have. Nevertheless, this change is still far better than the way it was before. Can't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good."

I hate to harp on this, but if you want to see an excellent implementation of the MG-34 in a video game, Post Scriptum is the best I've seen. A well-placed MG-34 or MG-42 makes all the difference, and it can completely neuter an enemy squad (even though MGers usually don't have very high kill counts in the game, they are arguably the single most critical unit, especially for the Germans). Incidentally, the MG-34's dispersion is *way* higher in PS (by design; more dispersion = better suppression). CRS should take notes.

Actually, if suppression was implemented for LMG., we could probably make some arguments for giving  suppression to the Mortarman too.  

These weapon systems could then be used a little bit more historically.  Squads could  setup more coordinated assults on defended positions using more realistic tactics.

Cheers!

Edited by krazydog

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Merlin51
5 minutes ago, krazydog said:

we could probably make arguments for giving  some Suppression to the Mortarman too.  

I guess you could say they did kind of get some.
With the infantry hardness changes, it's no longer safe to run through a bracketed mortar barrage, the frags kill you.

Not exactly the same i guess, but it only takes a time or two for most to realize oh crap, these are fatal now, need to take another path

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krazydog
6 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

I guess you could say they did kind of get some.
With the infantry hardness changes, it's no longer safe to run through a bracketed mortar barrage, the frags kill you.

Not exactly the same i guess, but it only takes a time or two for most to realize oh crap, these are fatal now, need to take another path

I guess I haven’t noticed much of a difference yet since those changes.  I will have to test it out more with the mortarman.  Thanks for pointing that out.

But still ... you are talking about fragments that are directly hitting the enemy.    Suppression is more about forcing the targets in the area  to take cover without actually being directly hit - so it would be a bit more powerful.

Cheers!

Edited by krazydog

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Merlin51

Well, like i said, not quite the same
But you have the auditory, and the visual of the explosions, and the wtf? these kill me now part
So it is a little suppressing, in a way.

Mind you some people would run through a wall of fire, burn to a crisp, and then run back LOL

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nkelly
12 hours ago, XOOM said:

Yes - as long as your character is stationary (feet planted).

Due to lag or cheats i have to bork left or right whilst shooting to avoid dying everytime i'm confronted with ei (except for sw1 he's the only 1 i can trade with) so with the "nerf  to stop the allies whining about our lmg" i'm going to see how it goes in regards to defending flags if its no good no more i'm out of here,sorry XOOM but im bit over it.....The reconfigured 109F4 under the "we fixed the flop BS" is a shocker now this , running with the LMG is no good i agree BUT having to stand completey still is just rubbish *sigh*  we have something fun to use and there's a complaint about it (whine) by the other side it gets this treatment...(my turn to whine  oops sorry complain) allies dont need a LMG  they got the greasegun and the tommygun for short and long range firing,the MP40 is ok but its out matched by the previous mentioned at range and our LMG is'nt the end all be all cuz its also out matched at range unless you drop to the deck and deploy it by then your dead.. So my little bit of fun is now no more...

I hate whinging BUT the 2 things i loved the best are both ( i cant say nerfed) so i'll use the word restricted from what they were once to keep some others happy is such crap and a major disapointment for me as 18 year wwii online fanboy.... What next..?

 

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coastal

Amazing thread.  A lot of whiny egos.  

Despite all, I will be in still be in Allied CP's and Allied Bunkers WITH an LMG and I will still be capping you back to England and having fun doing it!

And if you are on this thread whining about the "nerfing" of the LMG....I had better not see you in an Allied CP or Bunker ever again after wasting our time with this Chest Beating!  'Nuff Said!  On with the War!

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copeman

If you want a game that has light machine guns that fire while you are running and being able to make a 360 turn in mid air all while placing bullets into the chest of the opposing player, as well as you hitting the dirt and at the same time never laying off the trigger, this game isn't for you.  Try a new strategy.  Funny that all the gripes and calls of "nerfing" are coming from many players who I see doing this exact thing while in game.  Use the weapon like it was meant to be, a support and cover fire weapon.  Not an "assault a building on your own" kind of weapon.

Calls of video proof that it can be fired while moving?  Yeah some are out there.  They aren't accurate in shooting though at all which has been proven time and time again.

What about this.....show me a video of someone using the weapon as a building clearing weapon, by themselves, as seen in game.  Then we can talk.

What, after that now you want to complain that other things, allied things, need fixed too then?  Yeah, they do.  CRS is working on them, or will be.  Give them time. This fix has been in the making for over a decade, and is/was a main gripe of people, many unsubbing because of it.  I know I was close.  It was a priority.

One thing at a time folks.

Edited by copeman
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maxios

This is a good change!

 

:)

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xanthus
3 hours ago, david06 said:

I think it's important to note that in a real milsim like Arma 3 you can move while firing with a LMG. SMGs are dramatically more accurate than they are in this game, and rifles sway a fraction as much.

 

No offense; I'm a veteran ARMA 3 player, and this simply is not true in the slightest. The idea of using an LMG in ARMA 3 the way it is used in WWIIOL is completely bonkers. You cannot use an LMG the way it is used in WWIIOL. I'm a fan of ARMA 3 mods like Iron Front, and I'm sorry, but what you're saying simply is not true at all.

And even if it *were* true (it is not), so what? I could just point to another game that does it better, like Post Scriptum. Incidentally, I have hundreds of hours of playtime in both ARMA 3 and PS (I've played PS since the first beta releases last year). In terms of WWII realism, PS is the best (despite unrealistically low engagement ranges and decreased vis distance due to graphics); ARMA 3 has far more realistic vis distances and engagement ranges, but WWII mods like Iron Front are still less realistic and polished than what PS has. WWIIOL is by far the least realistic of the three, *but* it has realistic engagement ranges and vis distances as well as a huge variety of AFVs and planes (which no ARMA 3 mod has), so WWIIOL still stands alone in terms of what's on offer (and nevermind the fact that you're going to be playing against dumb bots in ARMA 3).

For the record, by comparison to, say, Iron Front for ARMA 3, WWIIOL's weapons are like futuristic sniper rifles that fire smart bullets. Whether it's SMGs, LMGs, or rifles, the dispersion of these weapons in WWIIOL is FAR tighter and less realistic than in PS or ARMA 3. I already said that the MG-34 and MG-42 have much higher dispersion in PS because that's actually the *point* (better suppression), and it's MUCH more difficult to kill enemies at distance with those weapons. In terms of SMGs, I have no idea what you're smoking; again WWIIOL SMGs fire smart, AI-guided bullets compared to anything in ARMA 3.

If anyone doubts what I'm saying, just watch some video of Iron Front gameplay and see how clunky and inaccurate the weapons are. Even the modern weapons in the base game are far more difficult to use accurately (much steeper learning curve than WWIIOL).

EDIT:
Here's a video illustrating the weapon sway in the most popular ARMA 3 WWII mod. Compare to our vice-grip for all rifles. See just how much harder it is to aim, and then realize that this video doesn't even do it justice. Trust me, it is MUCH easier to aim and fire accurately in WWIIOL.

 

Hopefully, this all changes once we get the small arms audit.

3 hours ago, david06 said:

The real problem is that most infantry combat in WW2online is hipfiring from five meters away. Doing well here revolves more around your ability to exploit lag and audio than aiming or teamwork. People here are fine with this "point-blank bullet hose" arcade gameplay CRS is just tweaking a weapon so one side doesn't have a better bullet hose than the other.

 

I've been playing this game for almost 20 years, 99% of the time with a vanilla, unscoped bolt action rifle, and what you're saying is only partially true. By the time the infantry combat in WWIIOL devolves to the warpy-5-meter-spray-n-pray you're talking about, it means that one side's defense has already crumbled, they're on the ropes, and now it's just a question of whether or not the attackers can successfully camp the AB.

You're describing the brief endgame, whereas the majority of the battle is taking place on the periphery of the town, or across destroyed bridges, etc etc.

I will fully agree, WWIIOL does close-quarters-combat terribly. It's utterly unrealistic and horrible. Worst part of the game by far, and *especially* bad compared to ARMA 3 or PS. Yes, that part of the game is an utter fail and always has been. I am NOT fine with that silly arcade gameplay. I've posted ideas on how to fix it for years; the only viable solution I see is area-based capture and proximity-based disabling of spawn points (so a certain threshold of enemies within a certain range of your spawn point temporarily disables spawning). PS does this flawlessly.

Unfortunately, the cold, hard reality is that this horrible type of gameplay will probably not be fixed any time soon; the toxic playerbase likes camping spawnpoints (and, unbelievably, many of them seem to *like* being camped). As long as players can ridiculously spawn right on top of the enemy, and vice-versa, the 5-meter-warp-fest-engagement is here to stay.

 

 

Edited by xanthus
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