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david06

Attack vs. Defense

288 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, delems said:

Sun afternoon, great pop on.

No EWS or FB to any AO :(

Something has to be done to make it easier to get battles going.

I don't see why "a truck and a few team mates" isn't the core unit of the game, it seems to be the perfect starting point for a team-based MMO

especially since I'm not talking about capturing a town but just sustaining some action, the equivalent of a small FPS match 15 vs. 15 or so

instead it's completely blown off as insufficient by apparent roleplayers that want brigade level orbats assembling and moving on towns (ironically which we were closer to back in the bad old days of megasquads or KGW/ASA ops than we are now)
 

3 hours ago, B2K said:

- No FRU anymore - Similarly and EXACTLY affects the attacking side as well as the defensive side (No more stealth D -FRU's slipped out behind an attacking line)

Trucks too loud - in RL engine noise carries a long ways (I've personally heard approaching vehicles at over 3Km while on patrol in Iraq), exactly what level of noise is acceptable to you?

a player-placed infantry spawn point is helpful on defense, but it is absolutely essential for attack (can't even remember the last time a town was hardcapped without a FMS, maybe a naval town) so the FMS being hard to set most definitely does not affect attack and defense evenly

sound is 100% jacked up in this game, I can hear footsteps almost 100m away while sitting inside the 4th floor of a building, it is not fine nor realistic as there is no wave propagation modeled at all, the audio levels were set arbitrarily by some known/unknown CRS person sometime in the past not the result of scientific study so it couldn't hurt to tone them down for gameplay reasons

sound is also vastly more important here than in real life because of the low average visual distance and is the primary way trucks are located, so improper sound levels hurt attackers far more than defenders

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6 hours ago, david06 said:

I don't see why "a truck and a few team mates" isn't the core unit of the game, it seems to be the perfect starting point for a team-based MMO

 

-1/  Sounds like a truck racing simulation with a pit crew. Some might prefer an infantry squad or a company, approaching a target on foot, some armour support and perhaps some CAS overhead. One day, maybe some off-map artillery on-call. You know, like WW2?

Edited by sorella

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On 3/9/2019 at 6:02 AM, ian77 said:

+1

I have hardly posted on these forums for the last few years, I sort of got involved again forumwise with the awful IMHO changes to the spawnlists.

It now seems to be 99% of the player base against the guys at CRS and their infallible secret book.

So, time for me to stop banging my head against a brick wall and to leave the hypocritical zealots to their economic doctrinal game.

S! Ian

Beginning to feel exactly the same way. 

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53 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Beginning to feel exactly the same way. 

A lot of people are I think

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3 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Beginning to feel exactly the same way. 

Second this. On chat ingame, even between level headed players there seems to be a fair amount of frustration. I was pretty open to the new changes and some parts of it I still support, but I think both sides are feeling with needle frustrations in their spawnlists.

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past 3 hours of prime time, despite heavy fighting only 1 town changed hands

this is getting really dull, the only time a AO succeeds now is when the defenders don't spawn

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Capture timers need to be faster. Nothing wrong with a town changing hands back and forth quickly. If anything it adds to the drama and tension of the battle.

Main thing we don't want is late night map rolls. I'm partial to decreasing capture timers but slightly increasing timers until the AB is hot. Would do 15 mins standard and increase this to 20 mins when down to one AO and a large numbers imbalance.

At the end of the day losing CPs is no big deal and it's fun to fight over them. By slowing down how long it takes to capture a town when one side is severely underpop it at least a limits the amount of towns that can be taken. Right now if there is hardly anyone on you can have 10 towns fall Ike dominos. Just by double the AB table hot timer this not decreases the number of towns that will be lost, but frees up defenders from bunker duty to fighting it out in the streets.

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*** Capture timers need to be faster.

Simply ridiculous it takes the op side 3x as long to cap, yet they are only 50% over pop?

Not only that, it takes them 9x to make even capture timers.

Sliding scale makes sense, but it is severely off.

And base capture time still needs to be cut in half at least.

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On 3/5/2019 at 5:21 AM, nc0gnet0 said:

Not sure I followed your post completely and one thing you said seems to contradict another. 

a 150 (?) vs 120 over pop can be managed (your time zone 2 example)

it's the 15 vs 8 (or less) than become problematic ( time zone 3 example) 

Simply put, the lower the total population numbers, the more significant the advantage the overpop side has. Having two AO's in TZ3 would be a disaster. Soft capping in tz3 should be disallowed entirely, and when total population for a side hits a critical number (pick one) there should be only one battle being fought, period. 

We sussed a long time ago that a minimum good def against any half decent group requires 10 players. I forget the formula we came up with back then but that only included inf. If your def as was evidenced in screen shots many time, if less than that you will only drive off a ninja or two but fail at any group of even equal numbers as you have to guard areas of no action also as def. The lower the numbers involved the less flexibility an underpop player has to respond to depots capped, target swapping etc and this becomes magnified in TZ3 due to the overall diminished pop. If number disparity is 1.5:1 or more against the underpop in TZ3. If the allies are not capping when they have the numbers in TZ2 it is down to lack of vets most likely and the leaders that come with them. I'd expect this to change again for a while and 1.36 will doubtless have decent numbers on in my guesses

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Capture times are too long for the overpop side and there are too many tanks on this game that makes attacking hard and frustrating for infantry players. I've been on several towns captured by axis and it always start the same...captured spawneable cp that was undefended or poorly defended by allies. It's funny because with truck-only-fms CRS wanted to avoid ninja caps but now with these long timers we have to base our attacks on ninja captures.

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On 3/2/2019 at 9:36 PM, major0noob said:

all the defenders have to do is show up to win...

when a attack fails, soo much is blamed on the attackers. nobody will admit defending is too easy

This. We have to rely on no one guarding a spawn, or 6 people attacking it and one defending. So let's give some ideas.

1.) No distance limits on FMS's

2.) No EWS until 5 enemy are present

The funny thing is, after all the years and changes, more towns are still being capped at low pop. Have we learned nothing? Two to three towns a night should fall, we should embrace capture

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Capping a defended depot/cp is very difficult unless you have numbers and coordination.

Im not saying i agree with this but this is the way it is.

Capping could be made a bit easier but then you have that TZ3 effect:(

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how about increasing the AB timer to like 20-60min, and removing the more annoying balance tweaks

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I would like to see no capping unless heavy EWS is triggered.

We've had a lot of defences in the last campaign or two where:

  • We successfully kill off the EFMSs and defend the town.
  • The enemy shifts elsewhere - either to a different AO (during 2 AO times) or to defend / blow FBs / whatever.
  • Low EWS remains, but no sign of enemy activity is seen
  • After 20+ minutes, boredom has attrited away the defenders and they are needed elsewhere anyways.
  • Eventually, an EI walks in and caps the spawn. Sometimes up to an hour or more after the last enemy activity was seen. Low EWS on the whole time.

This is probably due to an attacker AFK in a bush somewhere. The capper may not be the same player as the one who has kept the EWS active - often it's a FB defender who worked all the way out to the town.

The only way to defend this is to leave at least one player per spawnable in town staring at CP walls for an hour or more 'just in case' whoever is triggering the inf EWS decides to head into town. Not many players are willing to do that. I know I'm not - I have limited time to play, and that's not how I intend to spend it.

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2 minutes ago, caydel said:

I would like to see no capping unless heavy EWS is triggered.

We've had a lot of defences in the last campaign or two where:

  • We successfully kill off the EFMSs and defend the town.
  • The enemy shifts elsewhere - either to a different AO (during 2 AO times) or to defend / blow FBs / whatever.
  • Low EWS remains, but no sign of enemy activity is seen
  • After 20+ minutes, boredom has attrited away the defenders and they are needed elsewhere anyways.
  • Eventually, an EI walks in and caps the spawn. Sometimes up to an hour or more after the last enemy activity was seen. Low EWS on the whole time.

This is probably due to an attacker AFK in a bush somewhere. The capper may not be the same player as the one who has kept the EWS active - often it's a FB defender who worked all the way out to the town.

The only way to defend this is to leave at least one player per spawnable in town staring at CP walls for an hour or more 'just in case' whoever is triggering the inf EWS decides to head into town. Not many players are willing to do that. I know I'm not - I have limited time to play, and that's not how I intend to spend it.

OR, the defenders could organise an attack on the FB(s) and move the fight from the town to the FB? Then if the FBs are yours so what if one AFK guy wanders in to a spawnable.

Alternatively, they could just all leave the town undefended and blame the game for not doing more to help them.

Sorry but defence is easy mode compared to attacking, we need less artificial help for the "do nothing" defenders, we should not give them even more help to wait for others to bring the game to them.

Seriously, just blow the FBs if you want to go defend somewhere else.

 

S! Ian

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@B2KIs CRS considering ANY of the suggestions being offered in this thread?  There are probably 2 dozen or so suggetions that are worthwhile to look at, and maybe half a dozen that would have immediate impact.  

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3 hours ago, ian77 said:

OR, the defenders could organise an attack on the FB(s) and move the fight from the town to the FB? Then if the FBs are yours so what if one AFK guy wanders in to a spawnable.

Alternatively, they could just all leave the town undefended and blame the game for not doing more to help them.

Sorry but defence is easy mode compared to attacking, we need less artificial help for the "do nothing" defenders, we should not give them even more help to wait for others to bring the game to them.

Seriously, just blow the FBs if you want to go defend somewhere else.

 

S! Ian

Have to agree here. The second the action dies down priority #1 is to sweep out and find and eFMS, followed very quickly by taking down the FB.

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On 3/19/2019 at 10:51 PM, major0noob said:

how about increasing the AB timer to like 20-60min, and removing the more annoying balance tweaks

That sounds awesome for overpop. 20 - 40 minutes camping their only spawnpoint you'd have some great missions. I know your point but in honesty the towns that fall in ultralowpop fall with very few def present, like 5 or less was common last i was in. I still remember matamor posting his screen shots of an attempted TZ3 def which was basically him and briefly another dude throughout the entire 'fight' for the town. The ease or difficulty needs to be the same in all timezones regardless of how many are logged in. 

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someone explain to me what is supposed to happen when towns are not allowed to fall during TZ3, but they're not allowed to fall during TZ2 either lol

axis euro prime used to assemble together and give the game what everyone here claims to want, large organized combined battles, and they were relentlessly clobbered with game changes like spawn delay and even personally berated by DOC until they just stopped logging in

now that there are 35 people per side and apparently a truck and several team mates isn't legitimate play, with online generals demanding greater numbers and organization

the funny thing is that the changes demanded by allied players to make it so easy to defend during lowpop have made it easy to defend during "highpop", and all axis has to do is turtle for 4-6 hours per day and they'll eventually win by default

and killing off euro prime was the biggest setback to allied US prime players because US prime no longer has a list of drained axis brigades to attack, they're usually all relatively fresh

40 minute AB timers would've slowed the lowpop map cutoffs far better than any of the negative changes that drove players from this game, would've also killed mole attacks and could have been implemented instantly (in before someone with no technical ability claims that adjusting a timer is a really, really complex coding process)

some say it's a bad idea though, unlike the past good ideas of achieving balance by boring everyone to death and driving thousands of paying subscribers away lol

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4 hours ago, catfive said:

That sounds awesome for overpop. 20 - 40 minutes camping their only spawnpoint you'd have some great missions. I know your point but in honesty the towns that fall in ultralowpop fall with very few def present, like 5 or less was common last i was in. I still remember matamor posting his screen shots of an attempted TZ3 def which was basically him and briefly another dude throughout the entire 'fight' for the town. The ease or difficulty needs to be the same in all timezones regardless of how many are logged in. 

It was a video that I tried to find back... Epic. This defense was insane. All in all, were 2 or 3 during 40 minutes held Herbeumont cps by ourselves. I killed 17 or 18 different axis names trying to capture town.

Please note that spawn delay was maxed at 64 seconds. VERY different than 11 seconds.... (sic)

Edited by matamor

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4 hours ago, david06 said:

killing off euro prime

this never got the attention it deserved.

it was never as active as us prime time, but i'd say us prime is equivelent to the old euro prime, and tz3 as extended to tz1.

 

the axis simply played better in tz1, in the form of populating AO's instead of DO's. it was due to the pop imbalance, but they did loose towns as well.

nothing like the current grind: waiting for a AO with no defenders.

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On ‎21‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 11:58 PM, major0noob said:

this never got the attention it deserved.

it was never as active as us prime time, but i'd say us prime is equivelent to the old euro prime, and tz3 as extended to tz1.

 

the axis simply played better in tz1, in the form of populating AO's instead of DO's. it was due to the pop imbalance, but they did loose towns as well.

nothing like the current grind: waiting for a AO with no defenders.

Seems more like being in a DO waiting for some attackers to show up. Yesterday evening, 2 AOs per side, and only one of them had active ews, and even then it was light for Armour (well axis were attacking...)

 

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Starting to think we should almost let the game go free to play - completely.

Question is, how do we generate revenue?
 

Regarding gear, simple; fix the ludicrously easy way to earn rank now.

Captures go back to 5 points, MS 1 point, bridge repair 1 point, ammo give, 1 point.

This will make it much harder for players to rank up and take the good gear.

 

Or, maybe FTP gets all tier 0 gear?  And sub 10 per month for premium and 5 for starter?  (or something like that)

*** The game simply needs more players - the events have shown how fun game can be with more players.

 

And it needs to be much easier to get action going - the MS changes are a great start - but 4 min captures are killing the game, literally imo.

Less than 100 players on server, should be 1 min capture time;  200 go to 2 minutes.

 

And please, all INF flags no tanks or all INF flags get tanks - we've driven off some great axis panzer commanders.. they are no longer here :(

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