imded

The new TOWNS added to the map.

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Something I noticed. The placement of these new towns make them way out of the way. I foresee them being by passed, cut off to a surrender status.

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Add a single link from Den Haag to England ... far N. and it will magically become super important at once :)

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We've only just begun. Better to start at the far edges where if it breaks it's less likely to hurt game play.

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I would hope the supply available in 1.36 will help reduce those bypasses.

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Any chance the huge gap between Bad Sobernheim and Frankfurt will get filled?

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2 hours ago, undercova said:

RnuvJw4.jpg

I realy don't see the likelihood of enabling a 4 caps to win a campaign setup.

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2 hours ago, OLDZEKE said:

We've only just begun. Better to start at the far edges where if it breaks it's less likely to hurt game play.

I was actually wondering why those south western towns were chosen.  

 

Thanks Zeke :D

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2 hours ago, undercova said:

Add a single link from Den Haag to England ... far N. and it will magically become super important at once :)

As Den Haag is not a port city, i have to ask, how might one get from The Hauge to the UK?

That said, Den Haag should already be considered an important city considering how many supply links run, and will run through it.
Not to mention it can bring 4 AB's and 1 AF to bear against you

 

 

3 hours ago, imded said:

Something I noticed. The placement of these new towns make them way out of the way. I foresee them being by passed, cut off to a surrender status.

To cut off the NW piece of france, you have to take down the SW british coast
and part of south france

To cut off the part of holland and the zealands, you are going to need to roll past tiel as well as cut the bottom entirely
it's going to get a temp link to stand in until it has some more eastward towns
And NO there will be no FB to spring board from

Edited by Merlin51

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12 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

I was actually wondering why those south western towns were chosen.  

 

Thanks Zeke :D

Adding totally new terrain is a huge step. We have to try best we can to do new things with the least chance of impacting gameplay until we can be sure things don't break.

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Keep up the great map work, and add more ports for ambiance :)

Move Kiel to correct location
Make Kiel deep water port and add AB
Add deep water port Den Helder with AB
Add deep water port Wilhshaven with AB
Add deep water port Haugesund with AB
Add deep water port Bergen with AB  **have to extend map N a bit?
Add deep water port Kristiansand with AB
Add deep water port Horten with AB
Make Brest deep water port with AB
Add Cherbourg deep water port with AB

 

Also, axis really needs a safe AF E like allies have safe AFs W.

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I hope everyone realizes the time and effort Merlin51 has put into learning how to use that old terrain editor to not only fix broken terrain bits like funky clipped fbs, floating or lost buildings, trees in building etc but also to create new terrain. 

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23 minutes ago, OLDZEKE said:

I hope everyone realizes the time and effort Merlin51 has put into learning how to use that old terrain editor to not only fix broken terrain bits like funky clipped fbs, floating or lost buildings, trees in building etc but also to create new terrain. 

Thank you Merlin S! best part is he does it all well and with a sense of humour at the same time. 

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Fun and teasing aside, there is a very real reason why terrain simply ceased to happen at some point long ago, and that the work that Doc tried to do never became a reality.

The people who wrote it were gone, those who knew how it was supposed to work under the hood far behind the pretty 3D objects were no longer there.
Terrain is a very strange combination of pretty 3D objects, and invisible binary objects and bit flags written in the language of the druids, and 10's of thousands of very long data base entries which all has to be translated and managed by a complex rule set on the host.

The only tool for manipulating it beyond an empty world of converted DEM data is the same tool that was written to originally do it way way back before release
which long ago ceased to have much resemblance to the game, and the tool is less than flawless, fixing some things entails inventing your own tool.
You remember the game in 2001 at launch? Imagine building a game in that with the intention of running it in WWII OL 1.35+

The debugging tools are as non existent as was the documentation.
And the whole mess is nearly entirely binary from start to finish (If you code at all, try to imagine working without source code)

The original tools for compiling the terrain into playable and host useable form were no longer valid since unity 1.5
And any documentation on how the existing terrain was converted for unity 1.5 was non existent, and no one we talked to knew how it was done.
We had to figure that out from Xoom digging through data we had and posting up pieces of source code he found.

Importing new terrain into the host did not even have documentation, and there was a period of trying to figure out why it did not work.

And the potential to literally break the entire game is very real, with no easy method of tracking down the issue and just fixing it quick.

I know this because at once point we lost all our terrain work, because it did in fact break everything, and we had to back up and start over with first
getting the bug fixes in (a lot of them but in no way close to all of them) then getting docs terrain fixes in and working.
And then trying to salvage the stuff we had built starting with the smaller areas 1st which entails literally 1000's of builds and rebuilds and talking to anyone
past or present who understood the host code and possible meanings of error messages and lots of trial and error and deleting and rebuilding things, which initially
resulted in just 1 single town and a bunch of fixes.
But the 1 single town did work.
Then 1 by getting it's connected towns resurrected and brought back in, which entailed lots of builds and rebuilds and trying to pry secrets out of the host
about what it did not like.

And being that it is all binary, so no just merging data or anything nice like that, in order to keep everything in sync with everything else
we had to invent a way to be able to do work on the gameworld, and yet "unplug" the things we did not want affecting the game world yet so we could still
put in bug fixes because everything in the terrain has the butterfly effect, add a missing AI in bergan op zoom, and the object ID's in waterloo change.
so you can not do much of anything in isolation.

That of course results in a lot of flip flopping back and forth between plugged and unplugged states, you dont want to know how many backup copies
of terrain i have now, i do not want to know even.

That also resulted in me having to setup and run a closed miniature copy of the host, cause no body wants to download the entire gameworld and reset reload and reimport
and relaunch a test server 20 times in a day and tell me every possible error it spit out into various logs or screens, they wont get any other work done at all

When this stuff finally worked, or at least seemed to work, THEN it could go to QA to try and tear apart and break and check all functions
as well as check all visual aspects (remember TE looks like 2001, no berms no fluffy bushes no real trees, totally different buildings etc)
Then fix or adjust per their findings til it's good.

And then you finally got your terrain update, this last patch.
All told QA has probably gone through some 400 tickets related to terrain only to get to this point, and that does not include all their tickets for every single other aspect
of the game, remember they have to also check out every new unit, changed unit, changed bullet, as well as all the 1.36 work etc.

What you got this patch is not every town that was recovered from the "Lost Work"
I will not say how many towns, you can find that out when you see them some time in the future, even QA can not tell you as they dont have them yet.
I am sure Five was happy though when i finally stopped saying nope failed again with [Insert weird error in Venutian gibberish here] let's try deleting this whole
part and starting over.

And we still have not mastered it yet
 

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34 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

Fun and teasing aside, there is a very real reason why terrain simply ceased to happen at some point long ago, and that the work that Doc tried to do never became a reality.

The people who wrote it were gone, those who knew how it was supposed to work under the hood far behind the pretty 3D objects were no longer there.
Terrain is a very strange combination of pretty 3D objects, and invisible binary objects and bit flags written in the language of the druids, and 10's of thousands of very long data base entries which all has to be translated and managed by a complex rule set on the host.

The only tool for manipulating it beyond an empty world of converted DEM data is the same tool that was written to originally do it way way back before release
which long ago ceased to have much resemblance to the game, and the tool is less than flawless, fixing some things entails inventing your own tool.
You remember the game in 2001 at launch? Imagine building a game in that with the intention of running it in WWII OL 1.35+

The debugging tools are as non existent as was the documentation.
And the whole mess is nearly entirely binary from start to finish (If you code at all, try to imagine working without source code)

The original tools for compiling the terrain into playable and host useable form were no longer valid since unity 1.5
And any documentation on how the existing terrain was converted for unity 1.5 was non existent, and no one we talked to knew how it was done.
We had to figure that out from Xoom digging through data we had and posting up pieces of source code he found.

Importing new terrain into the host did not even have documentation, and there was a period of trying to figure out why it did not work.

And the potential to literally break the entire game is very real, with no easy method of tracking down the issue and just fixing it quick.

I know this because at once point we lost all our terrain work, because it did in fact break everything, and we had to back up and start over with first
getting the bug fixes in (a lot of them but in no way close to all of them) then getting docs terrain fixes in and working.
And then trying to salvage the stuff we had built starting with the smaller areas 1st which entails literally 1000's of builds and rebuilds and talking to anyone
past or present who understood the host code and possible meanings of error messages and lots of trial and error and deleting and rebuilding things, which initially
resulted in just 1 single town and a bunch of fixes.
But the 1 single town did work.
Then 1 by getting it's connected towns resurrected and brought back in, which entailed lots of builds and rebuilds and trying to pry secrets out of the host
about what it did not like.

And being that it is all binary, so no just merging data or anything nice like that, in order to keep everything in sync with everything else
we had to invent a way to be able to do work on the gameworld, and yet "unplug" the things we did not want affecting the game world yet so we could still
put in bug fixes because everything in the terrain has the butterfly effect, add a missing AI in bergan op zoom, and the object ID's in waterloo change.
so you can not do much of anything in isolation.

That of course results in a lot of flip flopping back and forth between plugged and unplugged states, you dont want to know how many backup copies
of terrain i have now, i do not want to know even.

That also resulted in me having to setup and run a closed miniature copy of the host, cause no body wants to download the entire gameworld and reset reload and reimport
and relaunch a test server 20 times in a day and tell me every possible error it spit out into various logs or screens, they wont get any other work done at all

When this stuff finally worked, or at least seemed to work, THEN it could go to QA to try and tear apart and break and check all functions
as well as check all visual aspects (remember TE looks like 2001, no berms no fluffy bushes no real trees, totally different buildings etc)
Then fix or adjust per their findings til it's good.

And then you finally got your terrain update, this last patch.
All told QA has probably gone through some 400 tickets related to terrain only to get to this point, and that does not include all their tickets for every single other aspect
of the game, remember they have to also check out every new unit, changed unit, changed bullet, as well as all the 1.36 work etc.

What you got this patch is not every town that was recovered from the "Lost Work"
I will not say how many towns, you can find that out when you see them some time in the future, even QA can not tell you as they dont have them yet.
I am sure Five was happy though when i finally stopped saying nope failed again with [Insert weird error in Venutian gibberish here] let's try deleting this whole
part and starting over.

And we still have not mastered it yet
 

^^^^^^^Why I (only) try to help a little bit with marketing...

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Does it help if you say any special incantations before firing up the Terrain Editor?

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1 hour ago, aismov said:

Does it help if you say any special incantations before firing up the Terrain Editor?

I tried that, all that happened was Thoth hit me in the mouth, twice.
And Set punched me in the p@nis, and it hurt.
And then the editor crashed

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1 hour ago, Merlin51 said:

I tried that, all that happened was Thoth hit me in the mouth, twice.
And Set punched me in the p@nis, and it hurt.
And then the editor crashed

Other than that, what was name of that first 'the one single town' that did work?

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10 hours ago, OLDZEKE said:

I realy don't see the likelihood of enabling a 4 caps to win a campaign setup.

will force allies to keep 1 div in england and defend the coastline. also works other way around

both sides will have to fly in paras or transporters/trucks over a long distance

for allies it would mean to keep 1 div back in england

for axis it would mean to keep 1 div in the far N of map to secure that link/port

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plus ... it would enable a new dimension in gameplay/tactic

ppl and HC getting tired of the same setting over and over for more than a decade now. changing TOEs doesnt help that much

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Wow Merlin. You must be retired to have been able to spent all that time on this. Thank you.

Just curious, are you documenting the process of creating terrain now? If there is to be a WW2 Online v2.0 how would you do the terrain differently?   

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Merlin has a full time real life job with some crazy long hours at work. 

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Maybe all the people that have made shopping lists of what they want can help him out.

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13 hours ago, odin67 said:

Wow Merlin. You must be retired to have been able to spent all that time on this. Thank you.

Just curious, are you documenting the process of creating terrain now? If there is to be a WW2 Online v2.0 how would you do the terrain differently?   

Sadly no not retired, during the week i pretty much live at work.
This forum window is wedged between the spoolIT outage window and the netcool monitor
(shhh you guys are supposed to be hiding)

Everyone is documenting everything, so when we die, CRS3.0 does not have to go through this again.

I would personally do a lot different, but not because crs did it bad or wrong, what they did, no one else could do at the time.
Technically no game exactly does it now, they may do it prettier, but no other game has the sheer number of inter connected, interdependant
objects across such a wide area in 24/7 real time, in a gameworld that in theory only has a max size limit of planet earth
And what i would do different was technologically not possible at the time hardware or internet wise.

@OLDZEKEWhat year was it that you could finally ditch dialup?

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