malvoc

Sherman numbers

59 posts in this topic

58 minutes ago, dwalin said:

Ok,. I literally laughed out loud at this. 

Myself as well ... i didn't take the bait though, pretty sure it was said in jest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kilemall said:

From a historical perspective, this isn't so out of whack.  The Americans DID put a lot onto the M1s and had a lot of spread around firepower.  But even with all that, the MG34 as base of fire of the typical German platoon more then made up for it, that LMG would STILL throw out more firepower by itself then an entire American platoon including their BAR.  So from a balance perspective, if it was just the actual squads built up to a battalion, or ratios of divisions mini-sized to battalions, the LMG/K98 to BAR/M1 relationship would be balanced, or a bit in favor of the Axis.

 

What jumps out at me as 'wrong' is the SMGs.  The ratio sure wasn't 1:2 SMG:rifles, at best you'd have 2 out of 10 with them, plus the platoon lieutenant.

 

The larger issue of course is the armor, as I have noted elsewhere US infantry brigades had armor attached to them for assault work such as what the frontline brigades are modeling.  So why wouldn't the Axis' Kampfgruppes with similar subunit attachment be modeled too?

I meant to say that it's turning into jokes...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This count doesn't include all the m10s and stuarts and panhards also I would say over 100 tanks in a US division 

We need to cut tanks back on both sides some and honestly 16 s76 against 3 tigers is really lame if your playing axis you never get to use a tiger...

Malvoc out....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12.3.2019 at 6:56 PM, Jsilec said:

Have less rpats/sappers in spawn list and drop the armor numbers because it seems 2-3 out of every 5 pieces of armor spawned die to them in my eyes the excess armor doesn’t even help most battles because only time towns get taken are with mass boots and slow responce ....we set up flavion south hill with 6 17lbers 6 ems’s and about 8 big sherms backed up by tds and aaa on sunday mostly AEF with low turnout initially from blue tags and with all the combined arms and great comms we barely managed to cap a few depos so something seems very wrong when the traditional ways dont come close to working as they should....if we had 80 shermans it wouldn’t have mattered

Greed for kills and camping !!

most allied AOs get swarmed with Spermans ... who are trying to camp and get massive kills

Tactic and coordination is non-priority as it looks like lately ... thats why it is so easy to pick you guys 1 by 1. or even the FB. LOL

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is tactic and coordination? :confused:

Just gimme a sherman and watch me rock! B)

Edited by blggles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
American M3A3 Stuart 17 9 1.89
  American M4A2 Sherman 32 8 4
  American M4A3 Sherman 76 46 26 1.77
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2019 at 6:19 PM, Jsilec said:

Nice fb bust we raged and camped 4 axis p1 fbs in a row after that lol ....was a great time

hahahhaha YES YES we did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, undercova said:

Greed for kills and camping !!

most allied AOs get swarmed with Spermans ... who are trying to camp and get massive kills

Tactic and coordination is non-priority as it looks like lately ... thats why it is so easy to pick you guys 1 by 1. or even the FB. LOL

As opossed to sitting 1400m overlooking an AB with 4 Tigers where nothing can really hurt them at that range sans the Firefly... but lets not be obtuse.. you all had 7 of them overlooking our town when we had only S75s to defend them last map.  Dont you have some new hack to investigate? Seriously.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, undercova said:

Greed for kills and camping !!

most allied AOs get swarmed with Spermans ... who are trying to camp and get massive kills

Tactic and coordination is non-priority as it looks like lately ... thats why it is so easy to pick you guys 1 by 1. or even the FB. LOL

Tactics be damned, i am just happy that we have made the game enjoyable to play once again for undercova. That, after all, is what is truly important. Recent intel suggests he has been an insufferable whinny b!!tch on side chat recently.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, kgarner said:

shermaggadon bro's

The actual fact however, beyond simple sound bites, is that (following slight revision) the gun-armed tank count for armored brigades for tier 3 are thus:
DE - 61 (including Stugs, excluding PzII)
FR - 85 (including H39 and Stuarts)
UK - 68 (including Daimlers, excluding mostly harmless CS tanks and Vickers')
US - 72 (excluding Vicker's, including Daimlers)

I believe the numbers are quite balanced given sometimes very unequal costs and equal budgets. And yes, the Allied MBT in this era was the Sherman - in quite larger numbers than we have here and with much greater numerical superiority vs the opposition than we have here, while for the Germans it was the PzIVG and StugIIIG (of what we have modeled thus far).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, BMBM said:

The actual fact however, beyond simple sound bites, is that (following slight revision) the gun-armed tank count for armored brigades for tier 3 are thus:
DE - 61 (including Stugs, excluding PzII)
FR - 85 (including H39 and Stuarts)
UK - 68 (including Daimlers, excluding mostly harmless CS tanks and Vickers')
US - 72 (excluding Vicker's, including Daimlers)

I believe the numbers are quite balanced given sometimes very unequal costs and equal budgets. And yes, the Allied MBT in this era was the Sherman - in quite larger numbers than we have here and with much greater numerical superiority vs the opposition than we have here, while for the Germans it was the PzIVG and StugIIIG (of what we have modeled thus far).

The issue isn't the armored brigades, those look okay so far, but I'll want to look at the full Tier .5 system next campaign.

It's the infantry brigades, and gimped ability to assault with either or both short on MGs and/or armor.

 

Now if we had a full set of simplay, the infantry could advance/defend under artillery and having armor to cross and close and finish wouldn't be necessary.

But we are in a game with capturable spawn points that otherwise vomit forth armies unless taken, and no meaningful artillery beyond a labor-intensive light mortar and HE of questionable utility.

Early ATG can help, but later tiers require the heavier stuff which is almost impossible to maintain in force if there isn't enough ZOC troops.

So armor it is when infiltration doesn't work, if nothing else to kill outgoing defensive armor seeking to camp the FMS.

 

Oh and 232s, Vickers and especially CS are not harmless.  If the point system treats them that way, that might explain part of the oddities we see in your resulting spawnlists.

Edited by Kilemall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering the 232 has a k/d north of 4, it's certainly not harmless! 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

inf brigs are brokeded........ ie sherm 76's and sherms VS a stupid amount of stugs = not fun ......... maybe thats why the Germans lost the war in RL ...... it just wasn't fun anymore????  It's a good thing we axis WWIIOL players have true grit .... because for us.... this is no game.... this is not fun.... this is WAR! and we r here to win!!!! :)

Edited by kgarner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh and plz.... no talk of K/D.... those are not real or quantifiable statistics.... in fact, you're probably hallucinating those numbers..... k thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kgarner said:

inf brigs are brokeded........ ie sherm 76's and sherms VS a stupid amount of stugs = not fun ......... maybe thats why the Germans lost the war in RL ...... it just wasn't fun anymore????  It's a good thing we axis WWIIOL players have true grit .... because for us.... this is no game.... this is not fun.... this is WAR! and we r here to win!!!! :)

Completely agree with you on tank numbers, and the balance thereof, in infantry flags becoming silly.

As for the rest of it .... a little early to be drinkin' ain't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing I love most about internet forums...... the ability to play on the subconscious with innuendo and a not so easily distinguishable sarcasm

I just logged in and looked at the axis armor numbers in the inf flags, again....... and you make one very good point..... I probably do need a drink now..... sigh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kgarner said:

oh and plz.... no talk of K/D.... those are not real or quantifiable statistics.... in fact, you're probably hallucinating those numbers..... k thanks

I kill you alot....get better....fax

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

according to bmbm that's not relevant in determining goodness...... you probably just camp in tanks, well I play infantry.  U couldn't be better than me..... no no of course not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can reductio ad absurdum for days..... come on give me your best shot boys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really need to fix numbers... why allies get so many grease guns?
They complain about no SMGs, so you give them lots more, but axis get no panzers still?

I don't think you get it, basic infantry numbers have to be the same between sides - sure, one weapon might be better than another; but base number needs to be near same.

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, kgarner said:

The thing I love most about internet forums...... the ability to play on the subconscious with innuendo and a not so easily distinguishable sarcasm

I just logged in and looked at the axis armor numbers in the inf flags, again....... and you make one very good point..... I probably do need a drink now..... sigh

Also ... you can compare brig toe sheets pretty easy w/o logging into other side in-game....

 

http://www.campaigncharts.com

 

This campaign is a little funky though ... note that T0 is really T3 i guess.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, delems said:

Really need to fix numbers... why allies get so many grease guns?
They complain about no SMGs, so you give them lots more, but axis get no panzers still?

I don't think you get it, basic infantry numbers have to be the same between sides - sure, one weapon might be better than another; but base number needs to be near same.

Why do axis get the Rambo running lmgs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** Why do axis get the Rambo running lmgs?

Can you not read?
I said the number of infantry per unit type should be very near the same.

My quick look showed about 300 infantry in german ARM flag, but 350 in USA.  That is a big difference, too big.

Should be no more than maybe 5% different.

I don't care if they get 200 semis and we get 200 bolts;  I care when they get 250 and we get 200.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.