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kgarner

Historical Spawnlists....

256 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, XOOM said:

Should all be based on those spawned into the game playing IIRC.

and how often does it update?

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1 minute ago, kgarner said:

and how often does it update?

I think 5 minutes or so. There’s not too many variables in between that worth making the server check faster. More routines running can slow things down.

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1 minute ago, XOOM said:

I think 5 minutes or so. There’s not too many variables in between that worth making the server check faster. More routines running can slow things down.

is it area specific..... like a specific town........or the whole map?

Edited by kgarner

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Just now, kgarner said:

is area specific..... like a specific town........or the whole map?

Pretty sure it factors all players spawned in locally for balanced capture timers. Spawn delay max is 10 seconds now so it’s really negligible and not a concern.

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ok thats kinda what I thought just based on my personal experience..... good to know.  

and just as a side note clarification..... the "balance/overpopulated requesting reinforcement" screen at persona is a side wide aggregate.... and might not match up with s/d / cap timers in specific locations, correct?

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41 minutes ago, major0noob said:

way to cherry pick stats... even with all that, there's a huge difference

the reasons those particular axis unit classes are performing soo well is because there are no tanks, each of those units just fill a gap.

 

all are nowhere near as versatile as the allies S76, sherman, and stuart.

? you absolutely 100% missed the point entirely

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1 hour ago, jwilly said:

French 120mm heavy mortar:

120mmpuissant.jpg

brandt120mm.jpg

I'm glad to hear it's in-game, but surprised it has so few kills. :popcorn:

Yea? where do I find them LoL?

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16 hours ago, kgarner said:

and just as a side note clarification..... the "balance/overpopulated requesting reinforcement" screen at persona is a side wide aggregate.... and might not match up with s/d / cap timers in specific locations, correct?

It's the same mechanism (logic) that considers spawn delay. So that means it'd factor number of players spawned in to the game world. That one however is global.

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20 hours ago, XOOM said:

Pretty sure it factors all players spawned in locally for balanced capture timers. Spawn delay max is 10 seconds now so it’s really negligible and not a concern.

Locally as in town? I have been the only capper in a "dead" AO with several enemy around, and the cap still takes the full cap timers delay of just under six minutes.

Also, few maps back with Potthead and we retook factory town, we were at best balanced numbers in the city, but we probably had more players in town than the allies, either way the cap timers were really fast.

 

S! Ian

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yeah thats true cap timers seem more global and sd seems more area based.... just from my feel of things

Edited by kgarner

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On 3/25/2019 at 0:09 AM, XOOM said:

Pretty sure it factors all players spawned in locally for balanced capture timers. Spawn delay max is 10 seconds now so it’s really negligible and not a concern.

Wow.

 

Not good.  We should never crutch on SD like Rats 1.0 did, and it should never be more then 30s, but in order to not have too crazy any one thing, should be a suite of PN interactions where any one doesn't overwhelm or annoy but in concert gives the underpop their chance.

 

K said he saw the SD inoperative as part of his review, I didn't realize it really was intentionally tuned that far down.

 

I'm just as horrified that we are talking local calc for cap timers.  That explains a whole MESS of issues, such as cap timers that go against the underpop in a city where maybe the overpop have not shown up in yet- practically gives the overpop an easy cap especially in multi-AO situations when the underpop don't have extra people to cover everything.

 

Also explains the situation where a city with a lot of overpop ends up with insane cap timers over and above the overall population ingame, cause even if you have say 30 vs 50 pop, the 50 overpop could have 30 on one attack vs. 10 defenders, 3:1 locally and maxed out cap timers when actual total pop is less then 2:1 overpop.

 

This has gotta be looked at with an assessment of all the pop capture tools available and some better formulas that don't drive players mad on either side of the pop divide.

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lol how is anyone supposed to plan strategy or optimize tactics if no one knows what is going on?

no one knows what the spawn lists will be or are supposed to be

no one is checking the guy that is setting the spawn lists, players just assume that missing units are intended to be missing

no one knows exactly how cap timers and spawn delay are calculated

no one knows what the current penalty is while they're capturing, they just see wild swings in cap times

and apparently no one knows if it is even a local or global calculation, a little fact that is practically glossed over but absolutely changes everything

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spawn delay is kind of inconsequential as xoom said.  I use it more as a way to check OP without taking some sec's out of my fighting to check.  But Max SD coupled with an entire world bug (which sometimes feels like an extra spawn delay lol) can have some wider effects..... especially at max OP.  I have gotta very frustrated a few times when in situations where POP is verrrrrrrrrrry low and just a few guys coming or going to change OP status ...... there have been a few times where we were OP..... then all of a sudden went balanced or UP....... but still suffered max cap timers.  Again though, there are alot of variables and moving parts that I only have a limited view of..... so it can be hard to nail down specific issues or even whether or not the system is meant to function like that or is bugged.

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48 minutes ago, david06 said:

lol how is anyone supposed to plan strategy or optimize tactics if no one knows what is going on?

no one knows what the spawn lists will be or are supposed to be

no one is checking the guy that is setting the spawn lists, players just assume that missing units are intended to be missing

no one knows exactly how cap timers and spawn delay are calculated

no one knows what the current penalty is while they're capturing, they just see wild swings in cap times

and apparently no one knows if it is even a local or global calculation, a little fact that is practically glossed over but absolutely changes everything

You missed one, no one tells us what is and is not meant to be available in depot supply or FMS supply, eg Flak38.

 

S! Ian

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This topic is now off the tracks with spawn delay topic  :(

 

 

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1 hour ago, OHM said:

This topic is now off the tracks with spawn delay topic  :(

This is a very complex game with many subtle interactions between equipment, lists, timers, capture/spawn rules, etc.  I'm not sure it's possible to have a meaningful discussion on any individual aspect of the game without it bleeding over into other facets.

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19 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Wow.

Not good.  We should never crutch on SD like Rats 1.0 did, and it should never be more then 30s, but in order to not have too crazy any one thing, should be a suite of PN interactions where any one doesn't overwhelm or annoy but in concert gives the underpop their chance.

K said he saw the SD inoperative as part of his review, I didn't realize it really was intentionally tuned that far down.

I'm just as horrified that we are talking local calc for cap timers.  That explains a whole MESS of issues, such as cap timers that go against the underpop in a city where maybe the overpop have not shown up in yet- practically gives the overpop an easy cap especially in multi-AO situations when the underpop don't have extra people to cover everything.

Also explains the situation where a city with a lot of overpop ends up with insane cap timers over and above the overall population ingame, cause even if you have say 30 vs 50 pop, the 50 overpop could have 30 on one attack vs. 10 defenders, 3:1 locally and maxed out cap timers when actual total pop is less then 2:1 overpop.

This has gotta be looked at with an assessment of all the pop capture tools available and some better formulas that don't drive players mad on either side of the pop divide.

Having spawn delay maxed at 30 seconds didn't really provide an improved result. It was thought more effective than my numbers show them to be. Since we've toned down spawn delay there has been less player frustration, more people staying for longer, and more sorties overall. These are healthy and encouraging signs.

The balancing capture mechanism seems to be doing its job pretty effectively. At the end of the day, those who are side loyal will not switch. Their ability to cap pre-balancing capture era isn't possible to that degree. 

You say "it explains ______" as if it's absolutely certain but I am not so sure based on what I've seen. Spawn delay... has been part of all my time here over the last 9 years at CRS and it is one of the highest customer complained about topics. At one point it reached a terrible 4-5 minutes, an unbelievable number. 

Spawn delay works to frustrate and discourage players from staying online to play. It is left on primarily as a way to let people know that one side is imbalanced as it is the best tool we have to make that clear. If we reviewed the concurrent population logs, and analyzed for imbalance, most of the time you would see it balanced give or take 5 extra bodies - not enough to tilt the whole campaign.

That's not to say, when there's a major strategic breakthrough there won't be a greater tilt. That just happens, for both sides, and interfering with their game play in such an intrusive manner isn't something I want to entertain further. We had years of data to review with spawn delay, and before the balanced capturing mechanism, it was the only one we had to work with. That is no longer the case and there shouldn't be an assumption of a major improvement if we upped spawn delay.

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17 hours ago, ian77 said:

You missed one, no one tells us what is and is not meant to be available in depot supply or FMS supply, eg Flak38.

 

S! Ian

Relax buddy, the FlaK 38 is coming to the spawnlist for Depots and will be spawned at the FMS. The current situation is an error. It will be fixed eventually.

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This likely represents too much novel code, but what about this:

The most likely people to have a willingness to swap sides are the F2P players. What if you took a twofold approach to using that to our advantage: First, incentivize them to act in side-beneficial ways by allowing them to unlock, temporarily, additional infantry supply through captures and guarding points. Second, increase SD for F2P -only-. Give them a carrot, and a stick, at the same time.

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The new inf flag armor looks more than acceptable at my first run through..... thank you for your understanding and fast action CRS

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Trying to fight Overpop with negative tools have mostly failed IMO during these past years.

I wish "positive" tools would be implemented instead. 

It is been discussed in the "Allies will never win...." Topic.

Example of "positive" tool.

When there is more than X% pop imbalance then the underpopulated side players get full access.

Show this "full access" situation at the "choose persona" screen and you will get players switching to the underpopulated side for sure.

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That however might further increase the shift from subs to F2P, since often enough F2P customers would have full access.

How about developing a new level of ground/air (and eventually sea) weapons, maybe versioned up from what exists now, with more fighting power, hiding ability or movement speed...and make that new level spawnable only by subscribers and only when that side is sufficiently underpop?

Edited by jwilly

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