kgarner

Historical Spawnlists....

256 posts in this topic

1.36 open beta will be in the next few weeks. Had a good testing session with my team last night and it’s maturing very well. Couple little bugs are being worked out and once 1.35.18 is released my team should be 100% on 1.36 as well as the Dev team. 

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11 minutes ago, OHM said:

Well looks like no matter what we do it will be wrong,  

I feel for you guys; some of this player base is quite difficult to handle. Thanks for all the effort!

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5 hours ago, sydspain said:

CRS made a big mistake when they launched the game on Steam at 18$/month...they lost a great oportunity to increase our playerbase.

 

I agree with this 100%.

Deciding that $18 all-access was the sweet spot for revenue for a volunteer-run, highly niche game with decade-old graphics is completely nuts. I'd be willing to bet that this more or less restricts premium subscriptions to old vets like me who've been with the game for years. I'm motivated to stick with the game through thick and thin, but I'll admit the price point is more painful than it's ever been.

Edited by xanthus
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7 hours ago, augetout said:

If there are less players in-game, and the Allies aren't constantly overpop, then it really doesn't follow that there are less people in-game because german tankers are peeved about historical spawnlists.  

I think this is just as big of a deal as the spawnlists are.  

 

Here you have spawnlists which are giving the biggest edge to the Allies that I can ever remember seeing, with pop at a very healthy balance relatively speaking (about 6% TOM advantage for Axis, which is nothing like the 20+% seen for almost 2 years now) and the Axis are still winning.  

 

The lack of Allied vets might kill the game before the spawnlists do. 

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2 hours ago, OHM said:

We want to get the move able brigades set as close as we can and then get the garrisons set up.  Everything is done in steps. 

I suspected that was what was going on.

Are either of the armor/inf brigades going to be models for the TBS lists, or are they going to be mixed all-purpose spawnlists?

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16 hours ago, kgarner said:

bogol =  161 0

              160 0

              159 0

What can be more bias then discussing new spawn lists, without any in-game experience with them???  I can think of no variable more relevant.  But there is some bias on every side of every argument..... so if that's your point.... then of course I agree. 

#1. In this thread in particular I took no stance (pro or against) this so called "Historical Spawn Lists." I just pointed out, something rather obvious. Your analysis is flawed, and thus meaningless. Why? OK, let me explain.

Because if someone will not enjoy the  hysterical spawnlists, they will play less and less. Plain and simple. Yes, they might also be more and more vocal crying in the fora about how the game they used to love is going in a direction that they do not think is appropriate. On the other hand, the ones that enjoy this hysterical spawnlists, will, well obviously, continue to spawn, historically. So, you see now the problem with your analysis and how useless it is?

#2 If I were to have taken a stance (pro or against) this hysterical spwawnlists, in this thread, then yes, maybe you pulling out my 0 sorties for the past three campaigns might have some bearing. But I did not, so again, useless. 

Edited by bogol
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50 minutes ago, Capco said:

I think this is just as big of a deal as the spawnlists are.  

 

Here you have spawnlists which are giving the biggest edge to the Allies that I can ever remember seeing, with pop at a very healthy balance relatively speaking (about 6% TOM advantage for Axis, which is nothing like the 20+% seen for almost 2 years now) and the Axis are still winning.  

 

The lack of Allied vets might kill the game before the spawnlists do. 

I fear the game and the allies are too broken for 1.36 to save.

I have only played allied this map, and we probably lost as many towns while OP as we have when under popped.

I have tried to drive frus to AOs but nobody bothers to spawn from them if you set one up. Hamza set three frus on one AO with his various accounts, and then he capped the spawnable, and still we had just 3 guys in the AO, while OP.

I spawned an engineer and went to destroy a marked enemy FRU, and was told to leave it because "it is ours". Stupidly, I thought this meant it was allied. What the five guys around it meant was, this is axis and we want to camp it. These guys were not greentags nor low ranked newcomers. Needless to say they all eventually died, and the axis recommenced spawning from it. It goes without saying that they did not report that the fru was active once more and that they were all dead. I saw one of them boasting in chat about his eight kills, and this caused me to ask if the FRU was still active. Eventually Lobo51 said that he was guarding the spawnable and had no idea if it was active or destroyed. Just one player bothered to answer a repeated question regarding the defence of a town some 30 allies were in and around (maybe I should have asked on sidechat instead of using target chat??). Of course the EFRU was active, but now not marked, and axis were defending it. It cost me 3 engineers before I finally got it down. 

When we did have an active AO I requested ammo resupply, and was told "we don't really do that on the allied side". When I said I was tracked and so could not RTB the S76 I was laughed at and told to just spawn another one from the FB. Well at least that time I got a response on chat. This attitude of "sod it" just despawn "supply does not matter" is so so very different to when I started playing 15 years ago.

There seems to be proportionately a lot of allied vets in game when I was still playing from 14:00 - 20:00 GMT (so that is server time +6 before you Americans changed your clocks!). However they seem to have developed a completely defensive mentality, probably from years of being under popped, and now when the numbers are balanced or allies are even a little OP they seem unable to break from that defensive play style.

If nothing else, at least when some axis players are in panzers they are not spawned in as an LMG and capping the AB! AND if they are playing then the allies are not OP and unable to fathom the faster cap timers the axis are getting.

I honestly don't know how allied HC or the RATs are going to get the allied playerbase to go on the attack. Even when Canuk and AEF set up an AO, and shut down the axis AB, guys still don't spawn in and cap the town.

S! Ian

Edited by ian77
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1 hour ago, OHM said:

Well looks like no matter what we do it will be wrong,  

Really? Where was the push for this change before it got suddenly implemented? Where were the loud voices crying for hysterical spawn lists? I must have missed them all.  Or maybe they were just whispering in the right ears?

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That would be Colsmith's crew Ian77.  He's one of the minor reasons I no longer play Allied- absolutely no concept of time pressure of effective player action, just attrition- which means nothing if you aren't taking towns with it.  One of a stew of poisons in the player leadership I tired of fighting.  Why struggle with a side that has decided to lose?

 

The major poison dispenser appears to not be playing.  Pity, he was such a genius- just ask him.  But his poison continues to do it's work.

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3 hours ago, OHM said:

There will still be moveable navy and air

I'm a bit confused by this. We have navy and air supply along with garrisons at every port and airfield. So what is the point of the movable flags?

Seems like a needless layer of complexity for no reason.

"Spawn Stukas at Bertrix"

"Where I don't see any missions at Bertrix"

"oh no, we're in the other mission in the air brigade that also happens to be in Bertrix"

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39 minutes ago, aismov said:

I'm a bit confused by this. We have navy and air supply along with garrisons at every port and airfield. So what is the point of the movable flags?

Seems like a needless layer of complexity for no reason.

"Spawn Stukas at Bertrix"

"Where I don't see any missions at Bertrix"

"oh no, we're in the other mission in the air brigade that also happens to be in Bertrix"

Hopefully that will be addressed when we get to the new UI.. I am hoping that you will be able to click on the town and all missions show up from that town.

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39 minutes ago, aismov said:

I'm a bit confused by this. We have navy and air supply along with garrisons at every port and airfield. So what is the point of the movable flags?

Seems like a needless layer of complexity for no reason.

"Spawn Stukas at Bertrix"

"Where I don't see any missions at Bertrix"

"oh no, we're in the other mission in the air brigade that also happens to be in Bertrix"

Variability, plus counterpoint to overpop overstocking.

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17 hours ago, augetout said:

You should know better than to speak before your brain is engaged, Mos.  Perhaps you can convince new folks, or veterans with poor memories that I am some 'sycophant' of CRS, but those with good memories know you are speaking directly out of your sphincter.  While I have never been as rude as you have been when disagreeing with CRS, I have and will continue to disagree with CRS----every time they move towards a red v blue setup, as I have since before the game went live some 18 years ago.  I know, 'ancient history'...

You're right, I was being unfair. I apologize. 

Was coming off an extremely frustrating time ingame trying to herd cats lol. 

Again, I'm sorry I was an a-hole to you. 

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2 hours ago, ian77 said:

I fear the game and the allies are too broken for 1.36 to save.

I have only played allied this map, and we probably lost as many towns while OP as we have when under popped.

I have tried to drive frus to AOs but nobody bothers to spawn from them if you set one up. Hamza set three frus on one AO with his various accounts, and then he capped the spawnable, and still we had just 3 guys in the AO, while OP.

I spawned an engineer and went to destroy a marked enemy FRU, and was told to leave it because "it is ours". Stupidly, I thought this meant it was allied. What the five guys around it meant was, this is axis and we want to camp it. These guys were not greentags nor low ranked newcomers. Needless to say they all eventually died, and the axis recommenced spawning from it. It goes without saying that they did not report that the fru was active once more and that they were all dead. I saw one of them boasting in chat about his eight kills, and this caused me to ask if the FRU was still active. Eventually Lobo51 said that he was guarding the spawnable and had no idea if it was active or destroyed. Just one player bothered to answer a repeated question regarding the defence of a town some 30 allies were in and around (maybe I should have asked on sidechat instead of using target chat??). Of course the EFRU was active, but now not marked, and axis were defending it. It cost me 3 engineers before I finally got it down. 

When we did have an active AO I requested ammo resupply, and was told "we don't really do that on the allied side". When I said I was tracked and so could not RTB the S76 I was laughed at and told to just spawn another one from the FB. Well at least that time I got a response on chat. This attitude of "sod it" just despawn "supply does not matter" is so so very different to when I started playing 15 years ago.

There seems to be proportionately a lot of allied vets in game when I was still playing from 14:00 - 20:00 GMT (so that is server time +6 before you Americans changed your clocks!). However they seem to have developed a completely defensive mentality, probably from years of being under popped, and now when the numbers are balanced or allies are even a little OP they seem unable to break from that defensive play style.

If nothing else, at least when some axis players are in panzers they are not spawned in as an LMG and capping the AB! AND if they are playing then the allies are not OP and unable to fathom the faster cap timers the axis are getting.

I honestly don't know how allied HC or the RATs are going to get the allied playerbase to go on the attack. Even when Canuk and AEF set up an AO, and shut down the axis AB, guys still don't spawn in and cap the town.

S! Ian

Perhaps focus on playing the game, be friendly and helpful to new players?

Not focus on telling everyone how axis must have this and that gun taken away or nerfed.

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I appreciate the interests and feedback OHM and SCK.  I look forward to the closed BETA sessions, and the opportunity to see the garrison spawnlists for 1.36.... I for one, feel appeased by both your posts the last few pages.

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3 hours ago, bogol said:

#1. In this thread in particular I took no stance (pro or against) this so called "Historical Spawn Lists." I just pointed out, something rather obvious. Your analysis is flawed, and thus meaningless. Why? OK, let me explain.

Because if someone will not enjoy the  hysterical spawnlists, they will play less and less. Plain and simple. Yes, they might also be more and more vocal crying in the fora about how the game they used to love is going in a direction that they do not think is appropriate. On the other hand, the ones that enjoy this hysterical spawnlists, will, well obviously, continue to spawn, historically. So, you see now the problem with your analysis and how useless it is?

#2 If I were to have taken a stance (pro or against) this hysterical spwawnlists, in this thread, then yes, maybe you pulling out my 0 sorties for the past three campaigns might have some bearing. But I did not, so again, useless. 

Straw man fallacy x1000..... MY main and only point is...... in order to have an opinion on the spawnlists... you need to play the game using the spawnlists.  The time for quitting due to the spawnlists hasn't reached its critical mass yet.... at least not for me.  I cant speak for others.... as I know some have reached that point... My only goal is to reverse the trend.  I still have hope the issues can be worked out as long as constructive and experienced insight is given to help correct the problem before it becomes a critical mass problem..... in my opinion, that means CRS having a good understanding of how experienced players feel before 1.36 comes out.  You are 100% right though if the spawnlists trend continues more and more people will play less and less....... hopefully this thread is out in front of that enough, and has garnered enough experienced player support to curve that outcome...... I still have hope.

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4 hours ago, Capco said:

I think this is just as big of a deal as the spawnlists are.  

 

Here you have spawnlists which are giving the biggest edge to the Allies that I can ever remember seeing, with pop at a very healthy balance relatively speaking (about 6% TOM advantage for Axis, which is nothing like the 20+% seen for almost 2 years now) and the Axis are still winning.  

 

The lack of Allied vets might kill the game before the spawnlists do. 

what can be done?  I honestly cant think of any solution outside of axis coming allied?

The only real main difference I have ever personally experienced between sides is a psychological one.... If a tight nit highly organized group where to produce results for the allied team.... the sheep would follow.... seems at the moment all the sheep are just scattered and wandering aimlessly over there.... aside from US primetime

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ps. spawnlists will not and can never fix a psychological paradigm ........ only leadership and organization can.

Edited by kgarner

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18 minutes ago, kgarner said:

I honestly cant think of any solution outside of axis coming allied?

Is THIS the purpose of the new spawn lists?.....

At least it would allow the allied to win a campaign.

example

Edited by Hardlead

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NO amount of spawnlist shewing will create wins for a side....... its a teach a man to fish..... or give him a fish conundrum.  The biggest problem with the current spawnlists is well CRS has given fish to both side and both sides are starting to forget how to fish themselves. ei  The allies are way over-invested in armor..... the axis way over-invested with infantry.

Here is just one personal example: Kgarner ATS

American M3A3 Stuart 19 12 1.58
  American M4A2 Sherman 35 17 2.06
  American M4A3 Sherman 76 50 27 1.85

Total Sherm 76 vs german ATS:

German Anti-Tank Soldier 236 290 0.81 Mar 16 16:40


Im just one player...... but my personal shrek kills on american S76's account for over 1/5th of all german ATS kills on sherman 76's this map.... which is ridiculous..... had there been a few 4g's in the inf brigs I wouldn't need to spawn shrek 80% of the time and these numbers wouldn't be so unbalanced....

 

 

 


 

Edited by kgarner

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6 hours ago, ian77 said:

I fear the game and the allies are too broken for 1.36 to save.

I have only played allied this map, and we probably lost as many towns while OP as we have when under popped.

I have tried to drive frus to AOs but nobody bothers to spawn from them if you set one up. Hamza set three frus on one AO with his various accounts, and then he capped the spawnable, and still we had just 3 guys in the AO, while OP.

I spawned an engineer and went to destroy a marked enemy FRU, and was told to leave it because "it is ours". Stupidly, I thought this meant it was allied. What the five guys around it meant was, this is axis and we want to camp it. These guys were not greentags nor low ranked newcomers. Needless to say they all eventually died, and the axis recommenced spawning from it. It goes without saying that they did not report that the fru was active once more and that they were all dead. I saw one of them boasting in chat about his eight kills, and this caused me to ask if the FRU was still active. Eventually Lobo51 said that he was guarding the spawnable and had no idea if it was active or destroyed. Just one player bothered to answer a repeated question regarding the defence of a town some 30 allies were in and around (maybe I should have asked on sidechat instead of using target chat??). Of course the EFRU was active, but now not marked, and axis were defending it. It cost me 3 engineers before I finally got it down. 

When we did have an active AO I requested ammo resupply, and was told "we don't really do that on the allied side". When I said I was tracked and so could not RTB the S76 I was laughed at and told to just spawn another one from the FB. Well at least that time I got a response on chat. This attitude of "sod it" just despawn "supply does not matter" is so so very different to when I started playing 15 years ago.

There seems to be proportionately a lot of allied vets in game when I was still playing from 14:00 - 20:00 GMT (so that is server time +6 before you Americans changed your clocks!). However they seem to have developed a completely defensive mentality, probably from years of being under popped, and now when the numbers are balanced or allies are even a little OP they seem unable to break from that defensive play style.

If nothing else, at least when some axis players are in panzers they are not spawned in as an LMG and capping the AB! AND if they are playing then the allies are not OP and unable to fathom the faster cap timers the axis are getting.

I honestly don't know how allied HC or the RATs are going to get the allied playerbase to go on the attack. Even when Canuk and AEF set up an AO, and shut down the axis AB, guys still don't spawn in and cap the town.

S! Ian

the game has been stuck in turtle mode since the spawns moved to trucks.

were you playing while we had 3min timers? it took a lot of enthusiasm out of attacks.

 

allies rely on FMS superstars like hazma and metamor, guys like them aren't on 24/7 though. axis rely on superstars too, but they log in longer

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8 hours ago, OHM said:

Well looks like no matter what we do it will be wrong,  

you guys learned this exact lesson at least 3 times now... unbalanced supply is not fun

 

you "fixed" something that wasn't broken

Edited by major0noob
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4 hours ago, formio said:

Perhaps focus on playing the game, be friendly and helpful to new players?

Not focus on telling everyone how axis must have this and that gun taken away or nerfed.

Eh... not sure what you mean. I play mostly axis for 15 years, and have umpteen posts in last 2 months asking for some panzers back into axis inf flag supply. I do not believe I have ever asked for axis to have anything "nerfed" (or the allies for that matter).

 

S! Ian

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30 minutes ago, major0noob said:

you guys learned this exact lesson at least 3 times now... unbalanced supply is not fun

 

you "fixed" something that wasn't broken

I think this is the most frustrating aspect of the spawnlist hatchet job.

Most players seemed quiet positive about historical intro dates and the "half tiers" we started to see in Map 158, Tigers were down to just 2 in an Arm Flag, but in game earlier with Sherms, M10s, etc. We had the introduction of the new Fireflys and Achilles, in the later Tier and the tiger numbers were increased in that Tier, but still less than they had been. Spawnlists felt right, guys were delighted with the new tanks and all looked good in the tanking garden. Then we had "The Hardest Campaign Ever" - allied SMGs vanished, allied towns were rolled day in day out, because the game mechanics force players to fight in and for a series of little buildings in every town, and lots of extra bolt action rifles do not match (dare I say "balance"?) 50% reduction in SMG numbers.  I think this was the last straw for many allied players. At the same time the tank game pretty much vanished since there were no axis tanks to fight on most AOs.

All the good vibes of Map158 and the new equipment wiped out in less than 24 hours of "The Hardest Campaign Ever". What a waste.

 

S! ian

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4 hours ago, kgarner said:

NO amount of spawnlist shewing will create wins for a side....... its a teach a man to fish..... or give him a fish conundrum.  The biggest problem with the current spawnlists is well CRS has given fish to both side and both sides are starting to forget how to fish themselves. ei  The allies are way over-invested in armor..... the axis way over-invested with infantry.

I don't think that there is any other option than to invest in infantry
air is a waste of time (realistically only kills soft targets that inf or paks can kill)
the top-tier axis tank is flanked out to render range and vulnerable frontally to a host of spammy threats at long range
even if tanks do set up with comms on a good position, and have pretty good (for current pop levels) support like a few FMS and some scattered guns, and take out the several shermans that flank out of town there are zooks to deal with
I was calling targets in Haybes AB a few days ago and had to nail a zook 2km outside town 

KVAA0oQ.jpg
and if a F2P bolt wasn't there then he would've killed a few tigers
prime time pop is so low that axis couldn't even spare 10 inf to stay with the tanks, all had to go to defense to lib Montfaucon 
the sort of combined arms combat that some players say they want is exactly what the game deters in every way imaginable
I do take solace though in the fact that the same players that lobbied for and celebrated just about everything bad that has led to the current state of the game are now are now starved for content
they aren't getting any glorious combined arms panzer assaults anymore they're getting dead AOs, maybe a ghost capture of a spawn and the town flooded with inf lol

Edited by david06

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