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kgarner

Historical Spawnlists....

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stankyus
2 hours ago, kgarner said:

100% agree.......... my main reason for bringing this topic up.... aside from the fact that the new spawnlists are hurting the game........ is to try and create come distinction in opinion.... To many people that vehemently post their opinions in the forums..... don't actually play the game.  Those in high places that seem to be making most of the decisions on what is actually in the spawnlists..... also are not playing the game.   I think any reasonable person can say definitively that...... those who play the game probably have the best understanding of how spawnlists are affecting the game.  This is my attempt at separating the wheat from the chaff ......

I watch trends all the time in the game on a lot of levels. I agree to a point, however to disqualify a person who is less experienced IE time in game or sortie from opinion is very presumptuous that they possibly cannot grasp the game as well as you in the time it took you too. I mean I can criticize a politicians performance without every have served in government or politics and be correct while others might give a pass due to nothing more than they are on his team. Would you not agree?

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xohorvath
33 minutes ago, kgarner said:

I have full confidence in xoom and ohm getting a handle on the spawn lists and producing a gaming experience that is more fun......... I just want them to have insight from those who have experience in game.  136 is gonna be what we the experienced players of this game make of it.  CRS, xoom, ohm know this...... and I have confidence they will adjust things in the correct manner..... as long as they are fully aware of the variables 

I do not share such confidence. In a conversation I asked whether the supply 'concerns' would be addressed and the answer was that this limited supply decision to ease us into 1.36. Expect the trend to continue.  As the supply trends downward, so does the support.

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kgarner

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.... im more concerned with how refined that opinion is........ how much value does an opinion hold if it is based on nothing but frivolous presumptions?  Everyone can have an opinion.... but some opinions are better than others.... to think otherwise is folly

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Mosizlak
1 hour ago, kgarner said:

well 1.36 is the last best shot at getting old players back into the game....... might be good to have the philosophy of spawnlists on solid ground when that happens i think

Yup.

Players will come back and see out of whack spawnlists and bail. 

But what  the heck do we know lol...

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aismov
17 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Yup.

Players will come back and see out of whack spawnlists and bail. 

But what  the heck do we know lol...

Have to agree here. Players have always fallen back to spawnlists as the ultimate arbiter of balance and ultimately whether they stick around. Players can live through a tough Matty/Tiger/Spitfire/whatever engagement, but people don't take to spawnlists that are more on the esoteric side (even if it a more historical force makeup).

I think there have been a lot of good arguments here to explain why forcing a certain historical brigade/force makeup without all the historical nuances like behind the lines supply etc. makes for a tough playing experience.

I've played for 3 campaigns now (I'm sure my stats will get posted) and I was pretty open minded to the changes. I still like historical entry dates personally, but think that the spawnlists should be unified and balanced.

Essenrialkt I'm Saint we should just go back to a well balanced spawnlist prior to ToE and the differentiation between armored and infantry brigades. I think it just causes unecessary frustration with players which has only become bigger with the historical ToE.

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matamor
7 minutes ago, aismov said:

I'm sure my stats will get posted

I wish mine too!

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kgarner

im not gonna post some obvious noob.... like matamors stats...... im not a monster

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major0noob
1 hour ago, stankyus said:

I watch trends all the time in the game on a lot of levels. I agree to a point, however to disqualify a person who is less experienced IE time in game or sortie from opinion is very presumptuous that they possibly cannot grasp the game as well as you in the time it took you too. I mean I can criticize a politicians performance without every have served in government or politics and be correct while others might give a pass due to nothing more than they are on his team. Would you not agree?

most of the guys advocating defense in "Attack vs. Defense" thread played defense exclusively. there's a lot of biases around

matamor's one of the few here that bother to make FMS's, but his talk is buried under guys that don't.

 

 

i'm taking a break after my last armour sortie... cut the middle of town solo in a baby sherm while axis were helpless, the rest of our tankers were 1km out afraid of loosing one of the 50+ sherms to axis's 9 stugs.

this supply is dumb. seal clubbing isn't fun at all.

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bogol
6 hours ago, kgarner said:

The great debate over historical spawnlist has been raging in the forums .... seems basically everyone in the forums has a pretty passionate view about the impact this is having on our game as whole..... and that is great, passion for the game is why we are here!!!!  However, I think it is logical to deduce that in order to have a real understanding of the impact these new spawnlists are having on the game..... well you actually have to play the game.  So I've created this thread as a quick index of players TOM for the last 2.5 campaigns (the campaigns that are affected by these spawnlists.  So we can quickly see who has truly experienced these spawnlist from a gameplay mechanics point of view..... and who is basically just forum thumping 

I see a huge self selection bias problem with this approach. Just pointing out the obvious...

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kgarner

so playing more doesn't give you more understanding of how the game functions??? 

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aismov

I think he's saying that the people who will come in and post a lot aren't the ones who are happy with the changes. Have to agree with him that there is selection bias on the forums.

But rarely have I seen both Allies/Axis essentially on the same side of argument along with the volume and duration that this has been a hot topic. Hell its even crept into the secure Axis HC forum as a hot topic.

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bogol
9 minutes ago, kgarner said:

so playing more doesn't give you more understanding of how the game functions??? 

I am assuming you were replying to my "Self selection bias" comment? If so, and if you are still confused, I will elaborate. 

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kgarner

bogol =  161 0

              160 0

              159 0

What can be more bias then discussing new spawn lists, without any in-game experience with them???  I can think of no variable more relevant.  But there is some bias on every side of every argument..... so if that's your point.... then of course I agree. 

Edited by kgarner

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kgarner

The whole point of me posting this is to illustrate how unbias the dislike of the historical spawn lists has become........ I would love for someone that has over 500 sorties for the last 3 campaigns to come in here and explain why they think the spawn lists are good...... thus far that hasn't happened..... I tend to think its because those people don't exist..... as is illustrated here in this thread with both axis and allies coming on and sharing basically the same unhappiness.......... with the key variable being........having actual experience in-game with the spawnlists.

Edited by kgarner
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raptor34

This isn’t going anywhere useful. I still support the historical move btw, and yes, I haven’t played in 161 because I’m taking a break due to being busy. Don’t call out those of us who don’t always have the time to play as much as we would like. 

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kgarner

raptor34 = 161 0

                 160 39

                  159 123

 

Can you truly support something you have very limited actual experience with though???  I mean truly ??? 

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zippy33

I seriously hope you wrote a script for pulling up people's sorties ;) 

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krazydog

Might be easier for the Rats to just make a “beta tester” forum and only allow players to post there that have at least 150 sorties over the last 3 campaigns :)

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kgarner

thats a great idea!  ...... see all the good fruit this thread is bearing .... SCKING u r seeing this right :)

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kgarner

why you posting with ur alt account zippy.... u trying to catch me up ur somethin?!?! lol

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Augetout
2 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Yup.

Players will come back and see out of whack spawnlists and bail. 

But what  the heck do we know lol...

Do you and Kgarner have a count on how many Allied players (and axis players) have left the game over the years due to the lack of historically accurate spawnlists?  I bet not, but shouldn't that matter just as much as the current griping about 'stugs in Infantry brigades'?

 

It's cherry picking to look at the sortie counts for the last 3 campaigns, while ignoring the thousands of posts from players asking for more accurate spawnlists and/or equipment modeling, and while ignoring the hundreds of our fellow community members who eventually gave up during the CRS 1.0 era of constantly trying to artificially balance the gameplay while taking the game further and further away from that which makes it the best wargame on pc.

 

Folks who were here in the old days might want to take a look in the mirror, and remember how many times they drove 4 towns behind the lines to spawn a magical army, without a care in the world to what negative effects it had on the campaign-play, or community as a whole.

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kgarner

If so many people wanted historical spawn lists....... where are they??? Why are none of them raking up sorties in-game right now????  Why have none of them come on this thread and said "I, with 500+ sorties during the historical spawnlists, think they are great because x, y, and z???

The 1 surefire way to kill a game........ make decisions based on what people think they wanted a long time ago, and dont pay a subscription anymore....... and ignore those that do pay and actually play RIGHT NOW.

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aismov
5 minutes ago, augetout said:

It's cherry picking to look at the sortie counts for the last 3 campaigns, while ignoring the thousands of posts from players asking for more accurate spawnlists and/or equipment modeling, and while ignoring the hundreds of our fellow community members who eventually gave up during the CRS 1.0 era of constantly trying to artificially balance the gameplay while taking the game further and further away from that which makes it the best wargame on pc.

Well TBH I think that in the past what players who wanted historical spawnlists were referring to is not having red vs. blue by using more historical introduction dates and not the mish-mosh we had before. But I don't think anyone was really asking for the British to have half the SMGs in their infantry brigade or the Axis having essentially no tanks that can effectively kill infantry in their infantry brigades.

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Mosizlak
16 minutes ago, augetout said:

Do you and Kgarner have a count on how many Allied players (and axis players) have left the game over the years due to the lack of historically accurate spawnlists?  I bet not, but shouldn't that matter just as much as the current griping about 'stugs in Infantry brigades'?

 

It's cherry picking to look at the sortie counts for the last 3 campaigns, while ignoring the thousands of posts from players asking for more accurate spawnlists and/or equipment modeling, and while ignoring the hundreds of our fellow community members who eventually gave up during the CRS 1.0 era of constantly trying to artificially balance the gameplay while taking the game further and further away from that which makes it the best wargame on pc.

 

Folks who were here in the old days might want to take a look in the mirror, and remember how many times they drove 4 towns behind the lines to spawn a magical army, without a care in the world to what negative effects it had on the campaign-play, or community as a whole.

You can say whatever you want, but from what I've seen in the forums and ingame you are in the minority. 

You and merlin and bmbm can play all you want when this all plays out, because that's all that will be left. Sycophants who will defend anything CRS does no matter what. 

PS: That "four towns behind the lines" BS was pre-2003. Ancient times. Keep grasping at straws. 

Edited by Mosizlak
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Augetout
Just now, kgarner said:

If so many people wanted historical spawn lists....... where are they??? Why are none of them raking up sorties in-game right now????  Why have none of them come on this thread and said "I, with 500+ sorties during the historical spawnlists, think they are great because x, y, and z???

The 1 surefire way to kill a game........ make decisions based on what people think they wanted a long time ago, and dont pay a subscription anymore....... and ignore those that do pay and actually play RIGHT NOW.

You are reaching conclusions not based in fact.  

1.  Posting in these forums is not required, and (newsflash) most players don't post very often if ever, here.

2.  You are presuming to know the 'pulse' of the players, but are doubtful that this game lost hundreds of players due to a lack of historically accurate spawnlists, etc----it doesn't do much for your credibility on this issue.

3. You are ignoring the poll results, that sat at around 75% being for historically accurate spawnlists  (including those who like the historically accurate spawnlists but are of the opinion that they still need tweaking, myself included).  That poll wasn't 'a long time ago', by the way, as it ended less than 10 days ago.

4. You are presuming to know what CRS is basing its decisions on, when that simply is not the case.

 

See you ingame.

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