shiloh17

Is everything weapon tested against everything else?

14 posts in this topic

This is the third time I have used a panzershrek head on against  a Laffly and two Morris straight into the grill. Twice I have been ran over and killed, and all three times the trucks continue on unscathed.  Every weapon needs to be tested against everything if it hasn't been. Not just the unit they were designed to kill.

Another example is the Wolverine gunner. 3 shots to his head from 15 feet or so, clearly in my rifle sight, only for the Wolverine to fire up, pull forward and the gunner I just shot machine gun me to death.

I could go on, but you get the point.

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Not sure on the M10's gunner
But on the trucks, if you shoot the engine, make sure you can get out of the way.
You may in fact kill the engine, but if the truck is in motion, the inertia will carry it rolling.
And because the truck driver never pressed engine off, audio wise you are probably going to hear the engine sound still for as long as the truck rolls.

HEAT is probably not the best thing to shoot a truck with
In reality, hitting the grill and radiator might very well defeat the HEAT round from wiping out the engine (though it will overheat soon from lack of radiator)
But reality aside, game wise HEAT needs a redesign as it works kind of funky, it was sort of ok for the original satchels i guess or hitting a single armored plate.

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26 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

Not sure on the M10's gunner
But on the trucks, if you shoot the engine, make sure you can get out of the way.
You may in fact kill the engine, but if the truck is in motion, the inertia will carry it rolling.
And because the truck driver never pressed engine off, audio wise you are probably going to hear the engine sound still for as long as the truck rolls.

What prompted me here was my third attempt to take out a truck. A Morris was approaching and it sounded like they cut the engine for a silent approach to the FB. I fired a round from 30 feet or so hitting it, and it turned away from me, and traveled 200 feet up a slope, they then met someone firing another panzershrek at them at the top of the slope. (unknown if they hit the Morris), They then turned back and took small arms fire from me, as it kept going the original direction it had came. Much further than glide distance. Too many times this has happened, just wondering if others can relate.

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Oh i can relate
Last night at Ath, someone had the idea to mass rush the north AB with opels
Why i do not know, but they would come full speed and blast through the AB, for like 20 minutes or so it went on.

I shot up a quite few of them with a rifle, and while i did score a kill on a few, the things careened off, some out the other side of the AB and down the road
until they either hit something, or the terrain nudged them to turn one way or the other, or someone flat out exploded it. A few of them ran down guys whilst on runaway mode.
I started hitting the tires instead because they at least stopped moving, then i could make sure to eliminate the driver.

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Trucks have always been unrealistically hard to disable.

In the very early days the Bedfords would take multiple 88mm HE rounds to stop. A bit odd, that.

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They are very simple
The whole bed plays no real part in damaging the vehicle at all, aside from killing the occupants.
Nor does the cab, aside to provide some marginal protection for the driver.

Hitting the wheels stops it from rolling, so you can then do other nasty things to it
Hitting the driver is a technical kill, but the engine and drive train can and will drive off in ghost mode until it despawns or hits something etc
Hitting the fuel tank will splode the truck usually
Hitting the engine with non AP is a bit iffy, if the HE is large enough the concussion damage is fatal, you probably wipe out the truck, if not, you are better off hitting the driver with it
Killing the radiator will take time to kill the engine, but the truck can run away by then.
Hitting the radiator with a smaller HE and especially HEAT may not give the intended effect at all.

Now you could eventually apply some things from aircraft remodeling when it is done, to the trucks, so that damage to body gets applied overall to the frame etc
that would make trucks fall to pieces from taking HE to the bed and such, but it will also have the effect of bringing the survivability of trucks down to about zip
and as their survivability goes down, so do the chances of getting an FMS going at all.

So you'd have to decide exactly where you want the balance between kill truck and have fight without walking a lot.
It's a truck, so it does not take a lot to break one, but it is also a key mechanism for creating action

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1 hour ago, jwilly said:

Trucks have always been unrealistically hard to disable.

In the very early days the Bedfords would take multiple 88mm HE rounds to stop. A bit odd, that.

I've seen the wheels blown off of one from a tank, so as an infantry I thought it was dead. A little while later an FMS formed. You'd think getting hit by a shell so hard your wheels come off that would kill or severely injure real occupants and the driver, yet they hopped out and built that FMS. Yep, truck are hard to kill.

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5 hours ago, shiloh17 said:

Another example is the Wolverine gunner. 3 shots to his head from 15 feet or so, clearly in my rifle sight, only for the Wolverine to fire up, pull forward and the gunner I just shot machine gun me to death.

The M10 Gunner (#3 Position), doesn't man the .50cal (#4 position).  Nor is it the #2 postion (commander).   It's entirely possible you shot the commander(#2), the M10 then swapped to #4 and shot you.  In the turret they are about 12" apart, but if one is up, and one down....................  I personally do that as bait 

And yeah the trucks are odd - I've hit plenty of Opels with what I had thought to be kill shots only for them to keep going... We will keep refining damage models (and situations), it does take a bit of time though. 

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3 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

The whole bed plays no real part in damaging the vehicle at all, aside from killing the occupants.

Ummm...yeah...realism much? :P

That 18 gauge cab sheetmetal stops fragments from a 2-meter-away 75/88mm HE detonation pretty good.  

Quote

 

Now you could eventually apply some things from aircraft remodeling when it is done, to the trucks, so that damage to body gets applied overall to the frame etc
that would make trucks fall to pieces from taking HE to the bed and such, but it will also have the effect of bringing the survivability of trucks down to about zip
and as their survivability goes down, so do the chances of getting an FMS going at all.
So you'd have to decide exactly where you want the balance between kill truck and have fight without walking a lot.
It's a truck, so it does not take a lot to break one, but it is also a key mechanism for creating action

 

Once again we're at the conflict between the game's marketing pitch of greater realism than the big competitors, and the constructing of core gameplay around intentionally unrealistic functionality.

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More than enough trucks in the spawn list - make them die as they should or shouldn't.

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22 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Ummm...yeah...realism much? :P

That 18 gauge cab sheetmetal stops fragments from a 2-meter-away 75/88mm HE detonation pretty good.  

We didn't make them, we just inherited them

 

 

23 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Once again we're at the conflict between the game's marketing pitch of greater realism than the big competitors, and the constructing of core gameplay around intentionally unrealistic functionality.

That depends on who you ask.
It would not bother me if the trucks went belly up when you looked at them funny, i'll just walk in from the FB.
But i don't think i would get a large amount of people agreeing with me and saying ok fine, lets road march?
Maybe, but i'm kind of doubting it, i'd also maybe foresee a distinct drop in the amount of people even willing to spend any time
attempting to drive them, and that has never been a large amount of persons overall.

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11 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

We didn't make them, we just inherited them

 

 

That depends on who you ask.
It would not bother me if the trucks went belly up when you looked at them funny, i'll just walk in from the FB.
But i don't think i would get a large amount of people agreeing with me and saying ok fine, lets road march?
Maybe, but i'm kind of doubting it, i'd also maybe foresee a distinct drop in the amount of people even willing to spend any time
attempting to drive them, and that has never been a large amount of persons overall.

I would just set a HC fms hehe

 

Edited by Justinrot

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18 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

It would not bother me if the trucks went belly up when you looked at them funny, i'll just walk in from the FB.
But i don't think i would get a large amount of people agreeing with me and saying ok fine, lets road march?
Maybe, but i'm kind of doubting it, i'd also maybe foresee a distinct drop in the amount of people even willing to spend any time
attempting to drive them, and that has never been a large amount of persons overall.

Like I said...core gameplay constructed around intentionally unrealistic functionality.

I'm not arguing for an immediate change. Marketing consistency is a good thing, though. Maybe some thought as to how to evolve the game so it didn't depend on magically-damage-resistant trucks would be in order.

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A 75mm HE round dead onto the radiator /engine of any Truck should blow the hood off and the engine should seize to exist. But that's not the case , it's almost better to take off the axle of any truck then hit the cab . Trucks are wonky no doubt about that.

 

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