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aismov

Player-generated content

25 posts in this topic

To continue with the theme of increasing player immersion and making WWIIOL more than just a hardcore battlefield simulator, but at the same time decrease the pressure on CRS to have to keep making new content at a frantic pace, I came across this video regarding Ultima Online and some of their design challenges.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFNxJVTJleE

 

One of the most important parts I noticed was when Richard Garriott said that early on in the development of UO they realized that they would quickly reach a point where players would consume (and grow bored of) new content faster than the devs had time to make it. Since with 1.36 we eliminated one of the three reasons I feel players left the game (ToE/Brigades/HC control), and are heading in the right direction with one of the reamining two main reasons (AO system), I think its time to start talking and thinking outside of the box regarding new content.

Lack of content everyone agrees was also a big factor in the game where there weren't any new weapons/map expansions/UI/etc introduced to the game for a solid 10 years. But I think we really need to work more on player created content. The PPOs are a great start, but I think we need to do more. And if we start talking about a potential WWIIOL 2.0 for real, I think we should work on a solid RPG layer for the game complete with some sort of battle point/economy/swag system. Give players something to work for and earn, and then be able to display and brag to others, rather than just an abstract running tally of whether the Axis or Allies won Campaign #XYZ.

Some crazy ideas:

1) minigames that players can get together ingame (not at map screen, but physically inagame). Something as simple as checkers/chess/cards/dice where 3-4 players standing next to each other sit down and a 2nd screen pops up to allow the game to be played.

2) Rank points are converted into virtual "rank point currency" (ratio to be determined); these can be gambled away in games like in #1, or spent in behind the lines towns (probably capital cities or other major towns) with designated "RPG areas" for virtual swag such as creating an AI-controlled victory parade going own the main street, launching off fireworks, gaining entry into virtual competitions such as a grand prix race, purchasing LoA cards so your character can go to these RPG areas without being flagged as AWOL (this way players are incentivized to RTB and continue to accumulate rank points), stores where you can purchase (with rank point currency) stuff to deck out your ingame house (this would be a microtransaction that I discussed in a prior thread)... the list goes on

3) Grand prix racing, air racing, virtual sniper competitions etc

4) Native fauna running around in behind the lines towns that players can hunt (and have trophies mounted on the wall of their home).

5) theater transfer requests (for when there would be a NA theater and a europe one) would use your currency to be transferred out of the european theater and say to north africa

 

.... yes I know all crazy stuff. But RPG elements and player created content is very important. Just look at the success of Eve Online.

Edited by aismov
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20 minutes ago, aismov said:

 

.... yes I know all crazy stuff. But RPG elements and player created content is very important. Just look at the success of Eve Online.

We see some of this already in-game with the overabundance of 'builders' with new ppos. Started with Great Wall of Ciney and now expanded with more sandbags and barbed wire. 

There also used to be grand-prix racing with 37' Mercedes at the F1 track around Spa-Francorchamps (track still in game but not the benz). 

A more important lesson from Garriot, perhaps than UO, is the way he/they have recently funded Shroud of the Avatar from startup over 3 years and $22M from indie funding, pre-launch alpha and beta purchases of titles (Special Forces patch?), homes (squad barracks?) and stuff (cots? barrels of wine? baguettes? liberated cognac?).  

Like that. 

 

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3 hours ago, sorella said:

A more important lesson from Garriot, perhaps than UO, is the way he/they have recently funded Shroud of the Avatar from startup over 3 years and $22M from indie funding, pre-launch alpha and beta purchases of titles (Special Forces patch?), homes (squad barracks?) and stuff (cots? barrels of wine? baguettes? liberated cognac?).  

Like that.

Yup... crowd funding is a real thing. As long as you get the right mix of people it can work. Players who like the RPG side of things in general will drop a ton of money. Star Citizen is a great example of this.

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8 minutes ago, raptor34 said:

We have a racing track? 

check the map:  south of Spa and above Malmedy and Stavelot you'll notice a red (paved road) circuit which essentially replicates the old Formula 1 Belgian Grand Prix track at Spa-Francorchamps. (modified today but still in use for F1). There are even buildings replicating the start line, pits and grandstands. 

used to be able to spawn a cool red mercedes there (on the training server) and have races. the track is still there, the cars are gone. but could they come back? 

Starting line/pit lane, grandstands and original track as from: http://fivesmaps.net/gallery/gallery.html

trackfacilities.jpgtrack001.jpg

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That’s awesome. I wonder if the 37 Mercedes Benz is still usable as an asset. 

Aside from that, there is Top Opel class and Pan class races to be held S! 

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Here she is, the beautiful girl:

FrjHXyH.jpg?1

Too bad she ain't in game, definitely a feature. 

Edited by blggles
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32 minutes ago, blggles said:

Here she is, the beautiful girl:

FrjHXyH.jpg?1

Too bad she ain't in game, definitely a feature. 

great find Biggles! should be back in game with a rear lmg mount! 

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a noble idea, but side+squad loyalty and smack talk between squads was always more engaging than any roleplaying mechanic

don't need any new dev resources to get that either just get the community back

PPOs are great, but from what I've seen there is not a positive reception from the remaining playerbase to any sort of out of the box thinking, like even sgthenning's wall that required extreme amounts of time and cooperation for marginal ingame benefit had people complaining

20 hours ago, aismov said:

.... yes I know all crazy stuff. But RPG elements and player created content is very important. Just look at the success of Eve Online.

yes the players in EVE broke the planned gameplay right out of the gate with "jetcan mining", a completely unanticipated tactic that turned the predicted economy on its head...of critical importance in an economy game

the developers just rolled with it because they saw that while it wasn't what they had planned, the players were forming groups and cooperating and building around the tactic, which was in the spirit of the MMO 

it's just about the direct opposite of what happened with this game, for example overstocking from rear towns was eliminated despite the fact that it involved convoys of units and players and provided all sorts of gameplay opportunities

took a decade of begging to just now kind-of-sort-of bring it back in a more limited form, because for some reason there exist reservations about huge convoys of tanks and vehicles streaming along the roads through the game world

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19 minutes ago, david06 said:

 

took a decade of begging to just now kind-of-sort-of bring it back in a more limited form, because for some reason there exist reservations about huge convoys of tanks and vehicles streaming along the roads through the game world

so your game is about convoy driving instead of building walls?  because in one the players form groups and in the other the players form groups? I'll wait for the trains thanks. meanwhile enjoy your ww2 driving simulator. 

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PPOs overall have gotten actually a very positive reception outside of a few guys posting in the forums and a small handful of exploits which have more or less been solved. I know myself that my squad builds PPOs all the time and many other players do with great tactical benefit. Things like PPOs, resupply convoys, and other things are a great idea since they expand the gameplay possibilities and attract more players.

I've said this before but in the 31st back in the day we had several players whose idea of fun was nothing but resupply and logistics. One guy actually had a notebook where he would bookkeep all the tanks that we had resupplied. Crazy. But he loved doing it.

Every extra subscriber helps.

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I still remember Pruitt's Axis Trucker Union for resupply. Good times!

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And don't forget Boss Hogg Trucking

another one.

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8 hours ago, aismov said:

And don't forget Boss Hogg Trucking

another one.

way back was Schwartz Trucking Co. squad too I believe

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I personally feel that if it doesn’t advance the mission of immersive WW2 gameplay, it doesn’t really belong in WW2OL. No offense and I do think those ideas are creative, but when people are calling for town assaults or 911 for defense or whatever, it would be discouraging to think some of their fellow soldiers are at the race track. 

With that said, adding some “real-world” aspects within the context of the game setting does have some interesting possibilities ... such as trains (we have the rail stations) that need to be attacked or defended, and possibly even a civilian element (crazy as that sounds). Can you imagine fighting for a town while civilians are evacuating around you? That could get a bit morbid I guess, lol. 

I do kind of like the idea of parades or fireworks that was mentioned, maybe after a town is liberated. Would be cool if a well-time bombing raid or counterattack could scramble up the victory party, lol  

I’d also like to see infantry being able to commandeer a vehicle, rather than needing to spawn into one ... could add some interesting aspects. You’re stranded somewhere and viola, here is a Jeep you can drive to the next town. 

These are all random thoughts. I guess I’d just like new content to be tied into the goals and setting of the game as much as possible, not something completely apart from it. 

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Fireworks going off at the capital or biggest major town on the map after victory is declared would be welcome I think.  Only time and place to have civilian NPCs too, it was and continues to be a wise decision to not create opportunities for PR nightmareplayer created war atrocities, incidental to war or intentional.

 

I've always wanted to see squad bars- the logo hangs outside or on the wall, place is a mess most of the time due to building collapse or in a side building in an AB.  Heck, if they donate X amount of money they get a capturable bar in 'their' town, and piles of blood and entire regions of wealth spent to conquer or defend it.

 

1stRCM, an Allied squad that was often in our brigades or divisions, did their WWIIOL Olympics during intermission, which involved tests of skill such as marksmanship or arranged minibattles, and then silly stuff much like Opel races.  That sort of thing of course requires no coding.

 

 

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given the current cap timers; any distracting mini-game - solitaire, poker, 1 handed bridge, craps, hell even rolling dice or playing checkers for laughs would ease the boredom. or allow ingame pop-up access while capping/recapping/driving or flying long distances to WillyT comix, a WWIIOL pin-up gallery, WWIIOL player fiction or WWII equipment profiles, game tips, squad promo posters, Propa's art -  anything. Image result for wwiionline propa posters

Related imageImage result for wwiionline propa posters

 

Edited by sorella

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6 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

Fireworks going off at the capital or biggest major town on the map after victory is declared would be welcome I think.  Only time and place to have civilian NPCs too, it was and continues to be a wise decision to not create opportunities for PR nightmareplayer created war atrocities, incidental to war or intentional.

 

I've always wanted to see squad bars- the logo hangs outside or on the wall, place is a mess most of the time due to building collapse or in a side building in an AB.  Heck, if they donate X amount of money they get a capturable bar in 'their' town, and piles of blood and entire regions of wealth spent to conquer or defend it.

 

1stRCM, an Allied squad that was often in our brigades or divisions, did their WWIIOL Olympics during intermission, which involved tests of skill such as marksmanship or arranged minibattles, and then silly stuff much like Opel races.  That sort of thing of course requires no coding.

 

 

Good point about the civilian aspect; would need to be VERY careful there.

A squad bar/pub would be pretty cool actually! Admittance for squad members only, except by invite. Maybe you could collect a token or something for each squad pub you visit, thereby necessitating asking for invites and making it more social. 

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Quote

I personally feel that if it doesn’t advance the mission of immersive WW2 gameplay, it doesn’t really belong in WW2OL.

Quote

A squad bar/pub would be pretty cool actually! 

Quote

I do kind of like the idea of parades or fireworks that was mentioned, maybe after a town is liberated. Would be cool if a well-time bombing raid or counterattack could scramble up the victory party, lol

Ummmm...consistent much?

FWIW, I'm with item 1.

If timers are so long and the risk of counterattack is so low that cappers are bored, and similarly for other game activities, other solutions are needed than adding a solitare sub-game. CRS says a lot that they're trying their darnedest to get the game to greater commercial viability. A commercially viable game shouldn't be boring.

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3 hours ago, jwilly said:

Ummmm...consistent much?

FWIW, I'm with item 1.

If timers are so long and the risk of counterattack is so low that cappers are bored, and similarly for other game activities, other solutions are needed than adding a solitare sub-game. CRS says a lot that they're trying their darnedest to get the game to greater commercial viability. A commercially viable game shouldn't be boring.

Ummm ... well to take the last part first, a parade or celebration of some sort would be ENTIRELY consistent with the world war 2 theme. It has to do with the war, and celebrations would be both the result of, and affected by, things happening in the campaign. And if anything, it's kind of eerie that we fight endlessly across an entire continent of deserted towns. I understand this is kind of necessary/preferred for various reasons, but my point is there are some things that could spice up our "world" that are still part of the immersion in this time period and setting (the European war). 

I'll admit that squad bars might be a bridge too far, I'm still trying to imagine how that would work. For the same reason I felt that a racetrack or something similar to that would be a bad idea, I wouldn't want players to be sitting in a squad bar when they are needed on the front. The name of the game is to be involved and killing/capping/repairing/destroying. But I guess I just like the idea of having something in-game for squads, because I feel that's lacking. 

Edited by hillstorm

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2 hours ago, jwilly said:

Ummmm...consistent much?

FWIW, I'm with item 1.

If timers are so long and the risk of counterattack is so low that cappers are bored, and similarly for other game activities, other solutions are needed than adding a solitare sub-game. CRS says a lot that they're trying their darnedest to get the game to greater commercial viability. A commercially viable game shouldn't be boring.

agree in general but the last sentence : many commercially viable games have quite boring aspects (specifically dependent on each player) - for example, waiting an hour or two for a specific raid group or dungeon group to be ready or begin, in many fantasy games; automated or macro'd crafting in many games; mining/flying/travelling in fantasy or space games. 

equivalent (other than capping) in WW2OL would be flight times on RDP bombing; paras waiting on tarmacs for 10-20 minutes for take off plus flight times; repairing/blowing a bridge solo; building the Great Wall of Ciney  - I'm sure there are others.

what some gamers find boring, others find immersive and still others find worthwhile for the camaraderie and chat (community) and still others because it leads to some kind of achievement or success - usually outwardly manifested - ie. I've got the cool armour; I've got the latest and biggest spaceship/ride/dragon; I've so much money/credits/points in the virtual bank that I can use for other stuff. 

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44 minutes ago, sorella said:

what some gamers find boring, others find immersive and still others find worthwhile for the camaraderie and chat (community) and still others because it leads to some kind of achievement or success - usually outwardly manifested - ie. I've got the cool armour; I've got the latest and biggest spaceship/ride/dragon; I've so much money/credits/points in the virtual bank that I can use for other stuff. 

Yup thats the way I see it. What you consider fun/important isn't necessarily what the other guy considers fun or important. I think our goal would be to cater to the widest possible playerbase while keeping the historical feel and authenticity as much as possible. Essentially every persistent game has something like this because players simply need to switch off and do something else. You can only attack CPs and bomb targets so much before being exhausted by it.

 

1 hour ago, hillstorm said:

I'll admit that squad bars might be a bridge too far, I'm still trying to imagine how that would work. For the same reason I felt that a racetrack or something similar to that would be a bad idea, I wouldn't want players to be sitting in a squad bar when they are needed on the front. The name of the game is to be involved and killing/capping/repairing/destroying. But I guess I just like the idea of having something in-game for squads, because I feel that's lacking. 

Well interestingly when you get enough players online you have a fair amount of redundancy and don't literally need every boot out in the field. If if things get desperate you can simple do a 911 call over side chat to get people to spawn in a pinch. I agree that the heart of the game is killing/capping, but at the end of the day this is a game and you sometimes need to take a break from the usual grind of it all. Some of my most memorable squad memories behind squad night operations was staging our Opel Races and other fun stuff like that. Its just something else to do ingame which adds to the depth of the gameplay experience. Yes, you can strongly argue that things like opel races detract from the historical/authentic nature of a WWII milsim, but IMHO, we can't forget this is a game for people to have fun.

And if the RPG layer is designed thoughtfully (i.e. no red Formula 1 cars racing in the streets of Antwerp when you are trying to cap the AB bunker) this can make the game more appealing to a broader swath of players, and make for a deeper, more engaging player experience.

S!

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3 hours ago, hillstorm said:

I'll admit that squad bars might be a bridge too far, I'm still trying to imagine how that would work. For the same reason I felt that a racetrack or something similar to that would be a bad idea, I wouldn't want players to be sitting in a squad bar when they are needed on the front. The name of the game is to be involved and killing/capping/repairing/destroying. But I guess I just like the idea of having something in-game for squads, because I feel that's lacking. 

This isn't really complex- you have a standard building in most towns that have a bar, and/or one associated on a base that corresponds to an officer's club or unit 'morale room'.  Maybe one of each so something like Antwerp would have 4 town bars, 4 army bars, 1 AF bar and 2 Navy bars.

Squads buy up a squad patch, and part of the package is that one of the bar buildings is their building.  Squad patch gets put on their walls along with generic bar themed walls specific to bar type.  It's 'their' bar, and I imagine most squads with any pride at all will come fight when it's in jeopardy.  Not too much coding other then the unique squad patch which has to load for vehicles anyway.

Then a higher level of buy gets you the squad bar as a capturable.  The bar gets the capture treatment, it's on the map, it's just another otherwise no function facility that has to be captured for the town to change hands.  Again no new coding other then putting the bar in the map as a facility.

 

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57 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

This isn't really complex- you have a standard building in most towns that have a bar, and/or one associated on a base that corresponds to an officer's club or unit 'morale room'.  Maybe one of each so something like Antwerp would have 4 town bars, 4 army bars, 1 AF bar and 2 Navy bars.

Squads buy up a squad patch, and part of the package is that one of the bar buildings is their building.  Squad patch gets put on their walls along with generic bar themed walls specific to bar type.  It's 'their' bar, and I imagine most squads with any pride at all will come fight when it's in jeopardy.  Not too much coding other then the unique squad patch which has to load for vehicles anyway.

Then a higher level of buy gets you the squad bar as a capturable.  The bar gets the capture treatment, it's on the map, it's just another otherwise no function facility that has to be captured for the town to change hands.  Again no new coding other then putting the bar in the map as a facility.

 

This squad bar/home combined with the below brilliant animation and you've got some winners that stay within the realm of the simulation.

2 hours ago, tatonka said:

poker games 

 

 

+10/ put this in game right now! 

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