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sydspain

Tz3 should have only 1 AO

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Mosizlak
1 hour ago, sorella said:

agree. either: 

1. go Proximity AOs only Tz3 with stringent number requirement for AOs (ie. 10/20 players to 'earn' a tz3 AO overpop/scale for underpop)
2. one AO Tz3 and/or 
3. incent players to play TZ3 (all unit access / double rank points for underpop/even a lowprice tz3 time restricted sub) 

Rank points are basically useless when you reach a certain level.

Plus, you'll only be attracting green players with this, and to be brutally honest, 99% are worthless until they learn how to play, and I don't mean firing a rifle. 

This isn't a real incentive, it's just a platitude. 

There should only be 2 AOs if the population warrants it, no matter what TZ. Period. 

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Silky
5 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Rank points are basically useless when you reach a certain level.

Plus, you'll only be attracting green players with this, and to be brutally honest, 99% are worthless until they learn how to play, and I don't mean firing a rifle. 

This isn't a real incentive, it's just a platitude. 

There should only be 2 AOs if the population warrants it, no matter what TZ. Period. 

The lack of meaningful points/XP system means we have a huge when it comes to shaping or incentivising game choices 

I’m sure it’s not on anyone’s road map as it seems like an irrelevance but it really isn’t. It would be a key element in getting players to do things that benefit the game 

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sorella
8 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

 

Plus, you'll only be attracting green players with this, and to be brutally honest, 99% are worthless until they learn how to play, and I don't mean firing a rifle. 

This isn't a real incentive, it's just a platitude. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Silky said:

The lack of meaningful points/XP system means we have a huge when it comes to shaping or incentivising game choices 

I’m sure it’s not on anyone’s road map as it seems like an irrelevance but it really isn’t. It would be a key element in getting players to do things that benefit the game 

Maybe. But you both should spend some time talking/listening to 'green' players/FTP noobs, whatever: 

most of what they ask about is: how do I rank up to get new stuff? when do I get smgs/binocs? or do I have to pay? that was my obsession in the first 6 months, other than trying to see who/what killed me > to rank up. 

you're right in that eventually rank/level  wears off/is meaningless but for new and especially younger players used to levelling up in all the games they play to earn new stuff, its a primary driver in the first days/week/month of their experience in WWIIOL

Image result for level up gif

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catfive
19 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Of course it's possible, the difference is that the snake is more defensible with the ability to spawn in at the head of the snake in each town, and counterattack supply on either side of the snake rather then only specific towns the cutting divisions have got to.

 

Flip side is snake people get a fresh new spawnlist at each new town along the way.

The thing that many, many failed to grasp about snakes as i'm sure you remember is that to stop them you got in front, you only placed cut AOs on it to make them defend it and slow down the advance of their supply through the hole. Attempts at cutting a snake were very rarely successful because the snake was continually funneling new supply through while yours was inevitably still on the original front line. The garrison supplies mean you're already in front of the snake so that's a great thing but then every town they have capped is a new supply point in the chain they can use with no flag moves, hmmm I need to get in game and see all this don't I? Ok, omw

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kgarner

supply is irrelevant at 10 vs 5 low pop..... therefore so is snake theory 

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TMAN

We will be carefully monitoring the effect of 2 AO's and the lower thresholds for 3 and 4 AO's but our planning for 1.36 was to offer a 2 AO minimum to encourage small squad play.  We will be starting campaign #163 with 2 AO's.

S!

 

 

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Kilemall
3 hours ago, kgarner said:

supply is irrelevant at 10 vs 5 low pop..... therefore so is snake theory 

Disagreed.  Before 1.36 the TZ3 defenders often didn't have HC on or qualified enough to act quickly and cap the head of the snake as Catfive outlined, or worse  could have but thought it was better/more clever to attempt a cut with not enough people and a small army piping down the snake.  Now capping the head is automatic long as you can fight and delay/stop.  Particularly engineers for FB blowing.

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Mosizlak
2 hours ago, TMAN said:

We will be carefully monitoring the effect of 2 AO's and the lower thresholds for 3 and 4 AO's but our planning for 1.36 was to offer a 2 AO minimum to encourage small squad play.  We will be starting campaign #163 with 2 AO's.

S!

 

 

You guys have been pretty good at fixing the messes, so when this one creates a mess, I hope you're quick to fix it :P 

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goreblimey
1 hour ago, Kilemall said:

Disagreed.  Before 1.36 the TZ3 defenders often didn't have HC on or qualified enough to act quickly and cap the head of the snake as Catfive outlined, or worse  could have but thought it was better/more clever to attempt a cut with not enough people and a small army piping down the snake.  Now capping the head is automatic long as you can fight and delay/stop.  Particularly engineers for FB blowing.

Wrong, if you haven't got the bodies you aren't capping anything. If you have no HC on you still cannot place an AO.

Granted if you choose to you will have supply to defend, and attack when the HC and numbers situation changes.

Edited by goreblimey

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Kilemall
37 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

Wrong, if you haven't got the bodies you aren't capping anything. If you have no HC on you still cannot place an AO.

Granted if you choose to you will have supply to defend, and attack when the HC and numbers situation changes.

I said nothing about TZ3 underpop with no HC on attacking the snake, just that the usual before the fact option when HCs are on before the snake gets going seems to be 'let's cut it cause that's so clever' instead of getting ahead and bop the head.  Damn amateurs, and the experience I have with these too clever people is they won't learn afterwards either.  Cause clever and 'it woulda worked'. 

 

Then after TZ3 that's all the option left as divisions race to the scene of the crime, too late to do anything but try a cut but by that time the snake makers have already reinforced and are watching the incoming units for optimal defense.

 

Now the head is capped and people should be able to defend as they get fresh spawnlists too with those all-important engineers and sappers, and when HCs do get on snake cutters will on average outnumber the supply of the snake makers 2:1, assuming there isn't a division 'in the pipe'.

 

But it still requires smart play on the part of players online, and a dedicated smart snake crew can still get it done.  It's just going to be less often and a real achievement/total failure of defense.

 

Hmm, one thing I hadn't thought about, the default 2 AOs.  That means the snake might get wider as well as race to the edge a bit faster, splitting overrun D more.  Maybe more feasible then at first blush.

Edited by Kilemall

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jet2019

Further thought on tz3...nearly all the players are f2p so no access to engies or armor.

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matamor
35 minutes ago, jet2019 said:

Further thought on tz3...nearly all the players are f2p so no access to engies or armor.

They lucky that they have smgs...

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csm308
1 hour ago, jet2019 said:

Further thought on tz3...nearly all the players are f2p so no access to engies or armor.

Sorry, but you're going to have to prove that statement.  Saying it is so, doesn't make it so.

VR

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jet2019

Bludngut has been the only subbed player that hits fbs in tz3 for at least the past week. I setup fms for them then plead and cajole for an engie. Sapping a fb with a rifle is boring, time consuming and easily seen by the enemy and countered.

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karellean
On 18/04/2019 at 6:20 AM, Kilemall said:

Hmm, one thing I hadn't thought about, the default 2 AOs.  That means the snake might get wider as well as race to the edge a bit faster, splitting overrun D more.  Maybe more feasible then at first blush.

The 2nd AO makes a LOT of difference Kile...  That second AO and widening the snake is pivotal in making any good cut stick, and stick safely.  If your on a roll (and normally when snaking you are), the 2nd AO is usually a forgone conclusion.

In addition to widening the snake, you can also:
Use it to buffer airfields and get them up and running
Tie up defenders in key towns elsewhere not in the snake, (or sometimes even pinch the towns if they are really sloppy or light in numbers online)
Poke dents into Enemy reinforcement pathways (adding to their timers)
Probe other weak points to make a second cut/pocket - create additional pain points.

Rear Guard supply in front of the snake, will mean very little if the numbers are truely as light as I read in this thread.
If really has been 10 v 5 out there in TZ3  (or probably worse knowing how players will pile into a roll) -- Two AO's in those pop conditions is downright lunacy.

More AO's = More Pain for the underpop/defending side in 95% of situations.  (The other 5% is if you are defending, and lucky enough to get some buffoon on the other side to go softcap pointless garbage towns, wasting their overpop, or try and hammer into really tough towns to take)


 

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catfive
On 4/17/2019 at 6:08 PM, kgarner said:

supply is irrelevant at 10 vs 5 low pop..... therefore so is snake theory 

Nope, snakes are still very possible as seen overnight. at 2 AOs per side you have 2 unattacked AOs from the underpop and 2 heavy inf attacks from the overpop. Supply is irrelevant, the side being rolled will often lose towns with 'best in tier' tanks still in the list or at best dying the moment it spawns/rolls out of veh. Snakes are still very possible if you're simply underpop down to critical levels. Sure it is a little slower but it is not only still possible but still happening

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Mosizlak
16 minutes ago, catfive said:

Nope, snakes are still very possible as seen overnight. at 2 AOs per side you have 2 unattacked AOs from the underpop and 2 heavy inf attacks from the overpop. Supply is irrelevant, the side being rolled will often lose towns with 'best in tier' tanks still in the list or at best dying the moment it spawns/rolls out of veh. Snakes are still very possible if you're simply underpop down to critical levels. Sure it is a little slower but it is not only still possible but still happening

It's always the guys on the overpop rolling side defending this BS, C5. 

Never gonna change their minds, and CRS has caved into their demands of 2 AOs no matter what lol.   

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goreblimey
25 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

It's always the guys on the overpop rolling side defending this BS, C5. 

Never gonna change their minds, and CRS has caved into their demands of 2 AOs no matter what lol.   

I think there is some mistaken/unfounded hope that new system will magically make the pop grow in tz3 to redress this imbalance. It seems a  bit cart before the horse to me. 

Let the underpop population justify 2AOs.

 

I am yet to see a CRS decision maker play on the underpop side while this Tz3 rolling occurs.

Edited by goreblimey
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jet2019

I propose a CRS  rep actually login tz3 for a week and experience the reality of it. Looking at the numbers is easy but experiencing the utter hopelessness of the gameplay first hand would go a long way towards understanding how population imbalances kills the game.

 

We all want the game to succeed. Help us help you..

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matamor

Axis can hardly cap one outside white night walkers no pop zone, what is the issue?

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kazee

The people that think 2 aos is bad have not been paying attention or watching the map closely the past 72 hours. Its not the aos thats the problem its how you play the game

I was a bit worried that the strategic element of the game might lose some flavor with town based supply but wow was I wrong. This game is now 3 times better on a strategic level what we had prior to 1.36, simply amazing...now if we can just get people to listen. 

2 AOs is a gift for TZ3, you just must change your mentality and how you play. 

If have seen several opportunities the past 72 hours where 5-6 guys could cap a 3-4 cp town during PRIMETIME.  

This game completely opened up to a whole new level

If i played tz3 low pop i sure know how i would play and the guys doing it still have no adapted years and years later.

You give me 5 guys in THIS thread (matamor, choad, moz, gore and c5/csm etc) and I will cap towns TZ3 low pop everyday. Sure our side will lose some during that shift but they always do, so change your mentality.  

 

 

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kazee

Really Really good stuff now, I might even have to get back into GHC for this. If they would take an old battleaxe with a bad attitude like me B)

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sydspain
5 hours ago, matamor said:

Axis can hardly cap one outside white night walkers no pop zone, what is the issue?

Campaign 161

Captured towns on Tz1:  Axis: 58  / Allies: 23

Captured towns on Tz2:  Axis: 65 / Allies: 27

Captured towns on Tz3:  Axis 63 / Allies; 29

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sorella
2 hours ago, sydspain said:

Campaign 161

Captured towns on Tz1:  Axis: 58  / Allies: 23

Captured towns on Tz2:  Axis: 65 / Allies: 27

Captured towns on Tz3:  Axis 63 / Allies; 29

Ty info. Perhaps some of the deep thinkers in this thread as it relates to TZ3 will actually compare real results in different TZs. 

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arado234

To determine the issue, you have to ask what the intent of the two AO minimum was. I can only guess, that there are too many instances at least in my experience, where the map is absolutely dead. AOs have no FBs, HC takes ages to get new AO going or is not on. 

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