david06

why do you still have open spawns in a FPS?

17 posts in this topic

you can't expect to present this game to players when someone can sit 5m away and shoot a player before they're even finished loading

and you've turn on "no fire" zones in depots and FBs, so the tech is there and  you've recognized that this is bad gameplay

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The only open spawns i can think of are FMS and Ships, everything else spawns into some semblance of shelter
Can not very well put a 700m and 7km radius no fire zone around those?

If you spawn in to immediately take a bullet to the face, then someone has gotten the upper hand.
1st thing you should do is alert the mission members, and then weigh your options.

If FMS is it better to shut it down and relocate?
If not, then you either have to call for support, or possibly become the support if you can not find any.
Sometimes the ML may have no interest in being the ML, or may not even know he was auto assigned as ML, and you have to take lead
and take control of the situation (but try speaking to the ML 1st)

If naval spawn, then you need to investigate support options
Friendly airstrike, Friendly ships from another port, etc.
Or if it is hopeless, you may have to cede use of the port facilities, sometimes the enemy gets the upper hand and can win by simply standing his ground and denying you use, this is a war game and these things do happen in war 

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Someday, maybe: dynamic spawn locations so that camping is no longer a thing, and capture/control applies to points of economic value.

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To me, it's part of the game and represents the risk of setting up an fms. Most other games have fixed spawn locations and I hate that. Makes gameplay very predictable. In this game, it adds an element of strategy to 1) know when to set an fms, and when not to 2) try to find a relatively safe place to set it 3) protect it, or pull it if it comes too much under assault. And on the flip side, the other faction has to effectively find/hunt down an fms and use resources to eliminate it. 

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What's the difference  between a FMS and a CP that has tanks all around ?

 

 

 

Answer :

Your life expectancy is about 10 seconds longer.

 

 

FMS is compromised  don't spawn there anymore , inform ML to pull it if he does not take ML and pull it yourself.

A Cp is camped your options are the other CPs and if it's the last spawnable CP then it falls into the FMS category you just can't pull it , but have to refrain yourself from spawning. 

A camped FMS sucks I agree . But over the last few months a few players have discussed the FMS dilemma and how to get more FMS onto an AO and how to prevent spawn camping or being spawn camped.

Unless CRS gives us more option via setting FMS ( multiple with one Truck) or separate the FMS via , INF and Equipment only FMS we will have to endure what is given to us.

Remember a covered FMS for INF will make it considerable harder for the ATG and AAA to get out and set up.

Always a pro and Con to think about. 

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no one is enduring anything, they are not playing or hardly playing at all

35 people per side at some point you guys need to consider the possibility that you have not made the best gameplay decisions

 

 

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you guys need to consider the possibility that you have not made the best gameplay decisions

I think that's been considered a zillion times over the past going-on-20 years. That's what game management is about.

Most games don't last nearly this long, so CRS's decisions have been good enough to result in that longer-than-most life.

But CRS, I'm pretty sure, is always evaluating whether where gameplay is headed is optimum in regard to its present state and the other possible places that they could go given the available resources.

Much of the commercially insufficient performance of the game over the years, I think, has been related to attempting to do things for which resources were insufficient. Advice from the player community is great for some things, but not necessarily for what's achievable given resource limits. I think CRS is focusing more these days on making sure that they stay within their means.

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Use already existing building designs for the FMS.  Similar to a FB but as an FMS. Obviously large in size, but offers a bit more protection. Or, those broken down building we see scattered in various towns. Not necessarily realistic, but goes well with the idea that it would give the grass hunters something to defend and fortify more so than a box. 

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On 4/21/2019 at 3:31 PM, xohorvath said:

Use already existing building designs for the FMS.  Similar to a FB but as an FMS. Obviously large in size, but offers a bit more protection. Or, those broken down building we see scattered in various towns. Not necessarily realistic, but goes well with the idea that it would give the grass hunters something to defend and fortify more so than a box. 

The inf spawns from FBs would make awesome FMSs.  The ATGs/AA would still need to spawn outside the object, but it'd be a huge improvement.

 

Great idea.  

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On 4/20/2019 at 4:57 PM, Merlin51 said:


If you spawn in to immediately take a bullet to the face, then someone has gotten the upper hand.
1st thing you should do is alert the mission members, and then weigh your options.

If FMS is it better to shut it down and relocate?
If not, then you either have to call for support, or possibly become the support if you can not find any.
Sometimes the ML may have no interest in being the ML, or may not even know he was auto assigned as ML, and you have to take lead
and take control of the situation (but try speaking to the ML 1st)

I think we all understand what "should" be done in accordance with good gameplay .... however .... i think the point he was making is that the game maybe shouldn't rely on that? I am not sure if there is an answer absent some big monstrosity of a mobile spawn .... which will surely stick out like a sore thumb but perhaps still be useful. Would be a nice 3rd MS option good for creating zones of control i guess.

Edited by choad
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On 4/24/2019 at 9:17 AM, choad said:

I am not sure if there is an answer absent some big monstrosity of a mobile spawn .... which will surely stick out like a sore thumb but perhaps still be useful. Would be a nice 3rd MS option good for creating zones of control i guess.

 

I think that is actually a good option. Create a 3rd FMS option where there is a roof, back wall, and two zig-zag'd side walls so that when you spawn you are protected. And then leave it up to the players to decide the level of security they want for players spawning vs. the drawback of it being larger and easier to spot.

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It's past the simple room/place where units spawn. I beat this horse around 20 years ago.

An AB is an abstraction of a concentration of troops. If they occupy a town, or have some facility they are bunked in... a single enemy is not going to stand anywhere in the middle of these guys and shoot anyone and not instantly be killed, assuming he manages to even sneak in in the first place. It's godawful gameplay, 100% of the time.

It should not be possible to stand in the AB alone and shoot anyone while it still has troops. If you do, then the AI should go into insta-death mode and kill anyone who does (through wall, don't care). I already hate everything about the capture mechanics, since they demand the very worst gameplay in WW2OL (CQB).

What about a Zone of Control system?

1. Dump depots.

2. Keep AB (need veh)

3. Anti-personel AI inside AB is usually 100% lethal (see down the list for exception).

4. ZoC is established by weight of units maintained within some area. The more units that are clustered, the larger the ZoC is. Deployed Brigades center on the town, and push a ZoC well outside town (established via testing). Spacing of units matters. If a single guy has a ZoC of 50m, then

5. MLs can place spawn point anywhere inside a current ZoC (perhaps Has can pre-place these at the start of a campaign per town they control as a default).

6. There might be an auto-generated MS at the current emplacements around town outskirts.

7. ZoC is based on mass of troops within some distance vs mass of enemy troops, and weighted for unit types (ML can see it on his map, ideally). So a group of inf might have a ZoC that's 100m (more?), but once they get to the edge of town, their ZoC is overpowered by the ZoC of the deployed Brigade. Destroying AI on a given side of town can allow the local ZoC to push into town, which in turn can allow the attackers to move a MS forward. Armor and guns (AAA/ATG) will weight the ZoC to longer range. Time can also play a role here (sort of like capping now). The idea is that you move forces towards town, and the ZoC slowly eats up the town (or doesn't). The defenders get the default for the Brigade (or very little if a garrison), plus whatever defensive units spawn. Holding North Antwerp means occupying it with reasonable forces (and the ZoC rules can be scaled to relative forces as well, so low pop balances and works). The goal is for attackers and defenders to not have to ever hide. They could, of course, move into town and stay inside, a force in being, but then you could also carpet bomb, and kill them all by bringing down the buildings.

Anyway, last time I was on I rage-quit after some awful CQB in an AB in the first few minutes of a fight for a town. Leave barracks, LMG a few m out the door gunning people down. AI up in AB, just no time to set up a defense. I never want to have my time playing being winning a town with no defense, I want to have to have a fight, but a good fight.

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On the subject of FMS. When you are mission leader, how do you "pull it" because nobody ever answers this question every time I've asked in game. 

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50 minutes ago, snipey said:

On the subject of FMS. When you are mission leader, how do you "pull it" because nobody ever answers this question every time I've asked in game. 

Bring up the map, right click on MS, select delete from the pop-up menu.

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It's not neccessarily that we disagree or don't want to do these things, we simply don't have the volunteers to do everything immediately.

We also have to work out how stuff works before we can even begin.

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