• Announcements

    • PITTPETE

      NEW Career Subscriptions now available   06/08/2019

      The all new highly anticipated / requested "Career Based Subscriptions" are available through www.WWIIONLINE.com/account only, starting at $9.99! There are three new subscriptions being added; 1) All Infantry at $9.99/mo, 2) All Air Forces at $9.99/mo, 3) All Ground Forces (Army Persona) at $12.99/mo. Continue reading to learn more and get back into the fight now! View the full article on battlegroundeurope.com
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
delems

Have units in correct armies?

17 posts in this topic

While I know we going away from TOE.

We still have a few divisions on map.

If we use 6th Army, then we could use 20th infantry or 3pz. (6th Army disposal)

Also, IV corp (in our orbat already), should have 18th inf div and 35th inf div.

So, maybe rename our TOE divisions on map to match actual deployments and organizational structure?

i.e. on map for axis would be 3pz and IV Korps - 18th and 35th inf divs.  All a part of 6th army.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about renaming all those crap division and brigade names to proper historical ones?

Call the HQs armies and brigades infantry and armor/panzer divisions?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Explain in detail what you mean - give specifics.

Like exactly what is on map.

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm proposing it be something like

UK

HQ BEF

2 Inf 1 Armor division, proper names in BEF BoF

 

ArFr

HQ 1st Army

2 Inf 1 Armor divison, proper names in 1st Army BoF

HQ 7th Amry

2 Inf 1 Armor division that was in 7th Army BoF

 

USA  (when replacing 1 French div)

HQ 3rd Army

2 Inf 1 Armored in 3rd Army

 

German

HQs for whichever armies, preferably ones from BofF on-

Looks like it should be 4th, 6th and 12th Army.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, delems said:

Explain in detail what you mean - give specifics.

Like exactly what is on map.

I think he means like
DIV HQ                                                 5th US army - HQ on staff - Headquarters, Reserve Command
Armored flag 1                                                              10th Tank Battalion
Armored flag 2                                                              34th Tank Battalion
Armored flag 3                                                             81st Tank Battalion

Infantry Flag 1                                        15th Armored Infantry Battalion
Infantry Flag 2                                           47th Armored Infantry Battalion
Infantry Flag 3                                      85th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron
Infantry Flag 4                                           22nd Armored Engineer Battalion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

I think he means like
DIV HQ                                                 5th US army - HQ on staff - Headquarters, Reserve Command
Armored flag 1                                                              10th Tank Battalion
Armored flag 2                                                              34th Tank Battalion
Armored flag 3                                                             81st Tank Battalion

Infantry Flag 1                                        15th Armored Infantry Battalion
Infantry Flag 2                                           47th Armored Infantry Battalion
Infantry Flag 3                                      85th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron
Infantry Flag 4                                           22nd Armored Engineer Battalion

Uh. no.  I meant what I said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im lost then, I thought you wanted to name them the historical names using the HQ as the army group

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

Im lost then, I thought you wanted to name them the historical names using the HQ as the army group

go up a level all the way:   if a/the HQ is an Army then below would be divs not brigades or battalions - though for most, like BEF you'd have Corps HQ in the middle. 

So in a simplified, modified, abstracted, semi-historical CRS 1.36 structure (HQ + 2 IDS + I AD)  you could have for the Brits: 

> HQ = BEF     (unless you wanted to choose I Corps or II Corps HQ) 
> 2 inf divs = 1st ID  &  2nd ID    (these were historically under I Corps which included a third ID specifically 48th ID )
> 1 arm div = 1st Armoured Div (though neither  I or II Corps HQ had armour attached - this 1st AD arrived solo under BEF after May 10/40)

In Kile's outline above across the 4 countries he goes up to the Army level for HQ so the units attached would be/could be historical divisions attached to that/those armies (bypassing the Corps structure in all 4 armies) and there would be no brigades/kampgruppe/regiment components at all. 

__________________________________________________________________

to be really boring and specific related to what exists now in a BEF example: 

NOW     >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  NEW 

HQ 1st Inf Div    ...........................           BEF HQ  (or BEF I Corps HQ)
3 Commando     ...........................         1st Infantry Division
Special Air Service  ...........................     2nd Infantry Division
1st Guards Brigade (Armoured)  ....      1st Armoured Division

 

Could do same for French, US and Axis though someone would have to make the call as to keeping or bypassing any Corps structure under any specific Army HQ. 

Edited by sorella

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a marketing standpoint it's actually a really good idea.

Why have each brigade split under generic KG1/2/3 names when you can make it more marketable to players. So hypothetically rather than this (current) system:

16th Infantry Division

KG1

KG2

KG3

 

You would have:

12th Army

1st Panzer Division

7th Panzer Division 

116th Infantry Division

 

Its just a name change. It's a good idea actually.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following through on this idea, specifically for Axis as outlined by Delems and Asimov above, for example: 

NOW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  NEW 

3 PZDiv HQ .......................................................  6 Armee HQ (or  IVK /6A HQ)
3PZ.1KG (inf) .................................................... 15 Inf Div (actual IVK)
3PZ.2KG (inf)..................................................... 205 Inf Div (actual IVK)
3PZ.3KG (arm)................................................... 3rd Pz Div (actually was XVIK/6A along with 4Pz and 4th and 33rd IDs)

(or go full  6 Armee / XVI Korps with 3PZ and 4th and 33 IDS) 
 

4 PZDiv HQ  .....................................................  Pick a new Armee HQ - say 4 Armee HQ (or  XVIK/6A HQ as above)
4PZ.1KG (inf)....................................................  12th ID (actual IIK / 4A) 
4PZ. 2KG (inf)...................................................  32nd ID (actual IIK/ 4A)
4PZ. 3KG (arm) ................................................ 5th or 7th (Rommel) PzDiv  (actual XVK / 4A)

**12 and 16 Armee had no PzDivs attached so for 3rd unit group might have to go with PzGroup Kleist or  add a PzDiv to 12A or reuse 4 or 6 Armee with a different Korps designation **

***actual 16 ID was in VIKorps/12Armee w/no PzDivs***

16 ID HQ    .............................................. PzGp Kleist HQ (or a fake 12A/VIK HQ)
16ID.KG1 (inf) ......................................... 2nd ID (motorized - actual XIVK/PzGp Kleist)  (or 16thID / VIK / 12A)
16ID.KG2 (inf) ......................................... 13th ID (motorized - actual XIVK/PzGp Kleist)  (or 24th ID /VIK/12A)
16ID.KG3 (arm) ......................................... 1st, 2nd, or 10th PzDiv (actual XIXKorps (Guderian) /  PzGp Kleist) (or just pick a PzDiv to add to the 12A)

 

Kind of moot, as its ahistorical due to the real configurations of the various sides/countries' Armies/Corps not matching the abstracted WWIIOL model  of unit groupings being: 1 HQ + 2 Inf + 1 Arm component. You could also abstract stuff in by calling KGs Korps instead of IDs/PzDs one supposes. Or go down a level (like where we are) and simply pick 3 divisions and use their component regiments/battalions as the sub-units linked to the Div HQ. 

zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Edited by sorella

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

Im lost then, I thought you wanted to name them the historical names using the HQ as the army group

Army group is too far up, the point is to get rid of the current naming scheme which was apparently clear communications ingame for the Axis and 'rule of cool' for the Allies, and actually use identifiable realistic division names.

 

SAS in particular is loathsome as a division, the US names are more of the same fantasy simplicity, and the French names hurt my soul as they are a gibberishy mishmash of things that wouldn't end up in the same division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, thinking I get you.

Pretty sure axis had 18th, 6th, 4th, 12th, 16th, 1st and 7th Armies

 Since axis had 3 Army groups A, B and C.  We could pick 1 army from each group and 3 divisions from each group (2 inf and 1 Arm)

So, maybe: our div on map becomes...

12th Army(HQ) -- from Army Group A

27th inf, 28th div and 7th pz

 

6th Army (HQ) -- from Army Group B
20th inf, 35th inf and 1st pz

 

1st Army(HQ) -- from Army Group C

94th inf, 252nd inf, ?  (seems no panzer div assigned to Army Group C

 

Or something like that?  That seems like a good idea.

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, delems said:

 

 

Or something like that?  That seems like a good idea.

Sure. AG B was north, went into Belgium;  AG A through Lux/Sedan/Dinant and/but AG C was Verdun and south, kind of static masking the Maginot Line. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, delems said:

Ok, thinking I get you.

Pretty sure axis had 18th, 6th, 4th, 12th, 16th, 1st and 7th Armies

 Since axis had 3 Army groups A, B and C.  We could pick 1 army from each group and 3 divisions from each group (2 inf and 1 Arm)

So, maybe: our div on map becomes...

12th Army(HQ) -- from Army Group A

27th inf, 28th div and 7th pz

 

6th Army (HQ) -- from Army Group B
20th inf, 35th inf and 1st pz

 

1st Army(HQ) -- from Army Group C

94th inf, 252nd inf, ?  (seems no panzer div assigned to Army Group C

 

Or something like that?  That seems like a good idea.

That's the idea.

 

Since we are going more historical feel anyway, might as well ditch the training wheel kiddie crap.

 

The French para units for instance?  Those are MY names, and I did a lot of research to find those, actual French para units that dropped and did some commando stuff before the Battle of France.

 

A lot of these naming schemes were thrown open to the HCs, which is why you get the meticulously comms clear but drab Axis naming scheme and the wild Allied scheme that was more about the emotional connection and/or wow that unit insignia is cool, I kid you not.  I think SAS was a weirdo marketing thing.  Then I think CRS particularly KFS1 was driven mad by the Frenchy names (even though pretty accurate at least individually) so CRS went with the current US naming schemes and AHC was not consulted to my knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recall in that time period some interactions between CRS/Playnet and lawyers for IIRC a British divisional civilian honorment organization that legally held control of commercial use of that division's name, and threatened CRS/Playnet with legal action in British courts if they didn't pay a licensing fee...or something like that. 

Bloo would know that info. Hatch would have been there as well.

Edited by jwilly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2019 at 11:37 PM, jwilly said:

I recall in that time period some interactions between CRS/Playnet and lawyers for IIRC a British divisional civilian honorment organization that legally held control of commercial use of that division's name, and threatened CRS/Playnet with legal action in British courts if they didn't pay a licensing fee...or something like that. 

Bloo would know that info. Hatch would have been there as well.

Wow, I could understand such an org fighting for 'proper' representation or respect, not gold digging to protect their 'brand'.

 

Similar thing happened with Union Pacific in model railroading, they wanted to charge fees for UP logos on trains, they got convinced that their better posture was ensure accuracy and respect rather then pillage already marginal hobby companies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

 

Similar thing happened with Union Pacific in model railroading, they wanted to charge fees for UP logos on trains, they got convinced that their better posture was ensure accuracy and respect rather then pillage already marginal hobby companies.

  Image result for union pacific wwii poster  Image result for spirit of the union pacific b 17

Edited by sorella

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.