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kgarner

Cap timers and Population

81 posts in this topic

The capture timers are very skewed....especially under specific circumstances. 

1.  The multiplier for the number of cappers is grossly out of wack if there are x2-x5 cappers the increase in capture time needs at least a 30% increase.

2.  The scale that determines max cp cap isn't functioning properly.  If we have 10 sd.... then yah ok I understand why we have max capture timers.  But sd goes down to zero and still there is max cap timers.  Iono if there is some delay or whatever but its a problem..... especially in low pop.  Its basically impossible to capture a cp, much less a town, in low pop times now.  which just isn't fun for either side.  With the current system of cap timers/sd it would make more sense just to shut the servers down when pop hits a threshold that is to low to maintain gameplay that functions properly

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the most important thing about the cap timers and balancing is that it quickly becomes vastly more efficient to solo-cap a depot rather than team up and assault in force

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..which is exactly what CRS have said they wanted to remove..ninja solo caps. Light ews and suddenly ...BANG BANG BANG - the town is all capped other than the bunker.

 

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Well five ninjas could cap five separate CPs in roughly six mins at max cap timer, seems that working together as a team the five guys wouldn't cap two CPs in the same six mins. The game mechanics once again penalise team/group play and promote solo play. 

 

S! Ian 

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Capture timers have some delay and that breaks the gameplay at certain moments...today axis were underpop and allies captured much faster than axis. Allied took advantage of this situation to cap all ciney cps in 5 minutes

Being underpop on tz3 and having timers penalty seems a joke

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Those timers were reported as being slow by the allies......axis definitely had cap timer advantage in Ciney.

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1 hour ago, sydspain said:

Capture timers have some delay and that breaks the gameplay at certain moments...today axis were underpop and allies captured much faster than axis. Allied took advantage of this situation to cap all ciney cps in 5 minutes

Being underpop on tz3 and having timers penalty seems a joke

 

22 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

Those timers were reported as being slow by the allies......axis definitely had cap timer advantage in Ciney.

 

If I'm CRS, I have no idea how to reconcile these two posts.  

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26 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

Those timers were reported as being slow by the allies......axis definitely had cap timer advantage in Ciney.

When the attack started allies captured in less 4 min and axis in 6 min...after a few minutes of battle axis had faster cap timers...and thats my point, timers have some delay, today this delay affected axis and some other day will affect allies, but it will always affect the underpop side, and thats a problem

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It's possible CRS codes at least SD or CT with a range of time in the 5-15 minute range, rather then 30s-1m as we may think.

 

There are reasons to do that, averaging out results to smooth over quick jags in pop online and stopping 'gaming the system' by coordinated despawning/respawning.

 

What would be a problem is if one of these is 'too long', or we are basing our expectation of what CT does on SD when they are on two different time scales.  This is part of what I think may be 'wrong' with the PN package.

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1.  The one variable that MUST change is the multiplier...... when serval players make it to a spawn and work as a team to cap it...... there shouldn't be a penalty for it.  Right now there 100% is.  When there are more players capping the INCREASE SHOULD BE MUCH MORE THAN IT CURRENTLY IS.  

2.  Everyone was soooooo upset about tz3 pop imbalance that 10 different agendas were thrown at the problem...... without any time to see how different additions might affect the total equation.  With 1.36 and attrition as it is now........ it shouldn't be TOE(unlimited supply) hard to cap a cp.  The other day I had to kill 16 ei to cap 1 spawn solo that was defended from the moment I walked in...... That's outrageous.... it was basically a miracle I was able to cap it.  Do we really want the baseline to be "you must perform a miracle to achieve a general game objective at specific times"?  1.36 changed the gameplay mechanics both INTENSELY and FOR THE GOOD...... Now it is time to change other variables to reflect 1.36 mechanics.  Right now we have 1.36 general mechanics........ supported with TOE variables......... and it just doesn't make sense.

TOE variables that do not mesh well with 1.36 changes

1.  CT multiplier based on the number of cappers.... More cappers should decrease CT significantly more than at present.

2.  Brig movement

3.  Rules that bounce brigs and divisions ( divisions will increasingly be split into pairs, making whichever split that holds the HQ overly vulnerable)

4.  Inf resupply - should be possible with MS (with some kind of timing mechanism in place to make it take a little longer than just spawning at an ms and despawning in town...... but much shorter than driving or flying from 1 town to the front.... as this is not gameplay realistic.  Being able to resupply SMG's is going to be a very real need.  An option to do so that actually makes sense would be nice to have.  Currently, there are no said options.)

5.  To many AO's.  In TOE, less AO's with unlimited supply = stalemate.  In 1.36 attrition battles make slugfests more par for the course..... the more numbers that are funneled into those slugfests, the better.  Right now there are simply too many different objectives to choose from and anything resembling cohesion is very easily diluted into none existence....... This is not good for Leaders, squads, HC, or the PB.  We are playing with Objective numbers that would only make sense if the POP was x2 what it actually is.

Edited by kgarner

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But I digress......... 

MY MAIN POINT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INCREASE THE MULTIPLIER RELATIVE TO INF NUMBERS CAPPING

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18 minutes ago, kgarner said:

 The other day I had to kill 16 ei to cap 1 spawn solo that was defended from the moment I walked in...... That's outrageous.... it was basically a miracle I was able to cap it.  

I know how you feel

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Can we PLEASE get a complete summation of the whole SD/CT mechanism including capture rates, and side entry vs. respawn SD and what they sample to decide ratios please CRS?

 

If not here, Barracks?

 

Most of this has been posted before, but they are split up and who knows if something has changed since then.  A total summary would help us please.

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The other problem is when 2-10 players is the difference between max OP and balance........ the numbers change ALOT in very SHORT time.  So far to often the team with 10 players vs 6 loose 3 players making it 7 vs 6 but still have a 500% increase in SD and CT for however long it takes the system to take another sample read.... and who knows how accurate that is..... with LOW pop being so LOW the % probably jumps around 20%-80% ever 5 mins.... but the mechanics in place to help the low pop side arent adjusting to every % change.......... so what exactly do they adjust too? random samples? samples every so often based on time? regardless they won't reflect accurately.

Edited by kgarner

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or even worse..... Team 1 has 10 and team 2 has 6........3 players log for team 1, and 2 log on for team 2...... now team 1 is under pop with max CT and SD

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max timer would be 5.6 minutes and that's a 50% difference in population and underpop would be 112.5 seconds with one player.

Even Population

Player 
1 > 225 
2 > 205 
3 > 180 
4 > 160 
5 > 135 
6 > 120 
7 > 105 
8 > 90 
9 > 90 
10 > 75 
11 > 60 
12 > 60

The balancing capture timers will remain the same as listed below:

Balancing Capture Timers (according to imbalance)

When there is an imbalance starting at 1% (up to 50%), the following will occur:

Underpopulated side receives bonus faster capture speed by X%
Overpopulated side receives penalty slower capture speed by X%
So for example, if there is a 25% population difference, the following will occur:

Underpopulated side = 25% faster capture timers
Overpopulated side = 25% slower capture timers
You cannot have more than a 50% bonus or penalty. So if there is a 70% imbalance, the maximum bonus or penalty is 50% timers impacted on both sides.

 

 

 

 

This has been pinned to both Allied and Axis forums ...but i can not find them as someone has un-pinned them :(     

 

 

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so basically more people in the CP is not relevant with current break down

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1 > 225 
2 > 205 
3 > 180 
4 > 160 
5 > 135 
6 > 120 
7 > 105 
8 > 90 
9 > 90 
10 > 75 
11 > 60 
12 > 60

 

theres are the players in the CP cap times in seconds for balance 

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first........ the breakdown should only go up to 6 or 7.  There are never more than that in a cp.  second..... a 7.9% reward to spawning at an ms...... getting to town.... making it into the cp.... and helping your buddy cap is not a sufficient reward for the tasks level of difficulty 

Edited by kgarner

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when the defender only has to spawn right next to cp and run in prefiring corners.....

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13 minutes ago, kgarner said:

when the defender only has to spawn right next to cp and run in prefiring corners.....

Ya cant factor in certain degrees of difficulty to the cap timers...what if i am clearing a cp alone and i have to kill off 4 ei and a cutter does that get me a faster recap because i pulled a chuck norris manuever?maybe

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well right now you have 4-9 spawns to attempt a clear before its capped......... if you dont manage it....... u suck

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which effectively makes 1 player defending a spawn as powerful as 5 or 6 attempting to cap it

Edited by kgarner

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2 hours ago, OHM said:

max timer would be 5.6 minutes and that's a 50% difference in population and underpop would be 112.5 seconds with one player.

Even Population

Player 
1 > 225 
2 > 205 
3 > 180 
4 > 160 
5 > 135 
6 > 120 
7 > 105 
8 > 90 
9 > 90 
10 > 75 
11 > 60 
12 > 60

The balancing capture timers will remain the same as listed below:

Balancing Capture Timers (according to imbalance)

When there is an imbalance starting at 1% (up to 50%), the following will occur:

Underpopulated side receives bonus faster capture speed by X%
Overpopulated side receives penalty slower capture speed by X%
So for example, if there is a 25% population difference, the following will occur:

Underpopulated side = 25% faster capture timers
Overpopulated side = 25% slower capture timers
You cannot have more than a 50% bonus or penalty. So if there is a 70% imbalance, the maximum bonus or penalty is 50% timers impacted on both sides.

 

 

 

 

This has been pinned to both Allied and Axis forums ...but i can not find them as someone has un-pinned them :(    

Ok, that's part of it.

 

What's the cyclic sample rate?  What is it determining the ratio sample by what player state, and is it local or global?

 

What is the cyclic sample rate of Side entry SD, what is it sampling to determine ratio and formula for times?

 

What is the cyclic sample rate of spawn/respawn SD, what is it sampling to determine ratio and the formula for it's times?  Is it local or global?

Edited by Kilemall

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3 minutes ago, kgarner said:

which effectively makes 1 player defending a spawn as powerful as 5 or 6 attempting to cap it

Which depending on ratio may or may not be appropriate.

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