kgarner

Cap timers and Population

81 posts in this topic

17 minutes ago, kgarner said:

INCREASE THE MULTIPLIER!!!!!! SUPPORT TEAMWORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's get the facts, hmmm?

Ohm, can you get those answers please?

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3 hours ago, david06 said:

no it really is a matter as simple as timers

just look at how drastically the gameplay was affected with the 3:00 FMS build timer

and before that when DOC practically killed the game with the 7-minute FRU rebuild timer (I still remember shutting down entire attacks by ATRing FRUs from 700m lol)

 

a 1:00 depot cap timer means that it's better to keep players from getting inside, and the fight moves outside the building

a 5:00 depot capture timer means that all the fighting will be inside

a 1:00 depot cap timer means that getting a friend in a truck and hotdropping depots is the most effective way to stop mole attacks in large towns, a 5:00 timer it's better to have the 2nd player actually walk to a 2nd depot

a 1:00 depot cap timer means you assault in force, because if you hold off against a few defenders for a minute you have the depot, a 5:00 creates a hopeless situation so you don't assault you sneak around

a 1:00 depot cap timer you have to have someone watching the depot, a 5:00 cap timer you can just have 2-3 players cover an entire town by cycling through

 

people like to pretend that there is some other issue, but they're just making excuses for bad FPS design

was talking about transit times

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1 hour ago, choad said:

A lot of teeth gnashing could be saved if the multipler values and cap timer calc could be stored as a config free for all to see.

http://wiretap.wwiionline.com/xml/config.xml

My guess is it was an add-on after all of that or in a bad spot/too much load to bother reading in that file/values all the time.

 

Interesting feature I've never seen used before, subtracting rank points when friendly kills.

 

And we can turn the arena into RA mode?

Edited by Kilemall

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2 hours ago, Kilemall said:

And we can turn the arena into RA mode?

Yes and no
You'd need the RA client and the RA host assets for the setting to mean anything i believe.

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21 hours ago, Kilemall said:

My guess is it was an add-on after all of that or in a bad spot/too much load to bother reading in that file/values all the time.

The differentiated cap timer in less than a year old.

Not sure if the relevant data points will make it to wiretap

 

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Can someone explain this sortie then ?

https://stats.wwiionline.com/playersortie.php?username=matamor&sortieidin=314663

And I am asking about the captures...how can a player cap a cp, then recap same cp only 2 mintues 1 second later ?!?

Player caps it, its recapped by enemy, 60 second cooldown and then its capped again within 1 minute ??

Mind you this was today, when I would bet my bottom dollar allied forces were overpop during this time. 

Sorry but I am calling BS on this one, and I rarely get involved in these types of discussion but this warrants an explanation 

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7 minutes ago, kazee said:

Can someone explain this sortie then ?

https://stats.wwiionline.com/playersortie.php?username=matamor&sortieidin=314663

And I am asking about the captures...how can a player cap a cp, then recap same cp only 2 mintues 1 second later ?!?

Player caps it, its recapped by enemy, 60 second cooldown and then its capped again within 1 minute ??

Mind you this was today, when I would bet my bottom dollar allied forces were overpop during this time. 

Sorry but I am calling BS on this one, and I rarely get involved in these types of discussion but this warrants an explanation 

B2K may know better than I regarding scoring.. Its possible if an enemy starts a capture and the bar only goes part of the way and then he ran in and killed the enemy capturing and then he recaptures the facility with a short timer (because his cap would start where the enemy died).

 

ie. Axis starts capturing facility and gets to 25% capped, Allied runs into facility and kills Axis and then starts capping back but only needs to capture that 25% the Axis captured. 

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19 minutes ago, SCKING said:

 

 

ie. Axis starts capturing facility and gets to 25% capped, Allied runs into facility and kills Axis and then starts capping back but only needs to capture that 25% the Axis captured. 

Oh, is that considered a capture ?

Ok didn't know that

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2 minutes ago, kazee said:

Oh, is that considered a capture ?

Ok didn't know that

Yes that is it exactly 

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all they have to do is set foot in the cp.... kill them..... even if its .001 secs the defender gets a capture and the cp restarts 1 min noncapture timer

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DE Army May 11 17:34 - 17:35   Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE Sapper 50 1 3 0 RTB 1
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:28 - 17:34 arenholt (UK LMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 92 5 6 2 KIA 6
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:24 - 17:28 arenholt (UK LMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 134 9 20 1 KIA 4
  DE Army May 11 17:23 - 17:24 portion (UK LMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT SMG 0 0 0 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:20 - 17:23 spke (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT SMG 68 3 8 1 KIA 2
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:18 - 17:20 sneipen (UK Rifleman) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 22 2 4 0 KIA 1
  DE Army May 11 17:18 - 17:18 arenholt (UK LMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 0 0 0 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:15 - 17:18 tencap (UK LMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 36 2 6 0 KIA 2
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:14 - 17:15 arenholt (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT SMG 18 1 4 0 KIA 0
  DE Army May 11 17:12 - 17:12 mlose (UK Sten SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE NCO 0 0 0 0 KIA 0
  DE Army May 11 17:12 - 17:12 portion (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT (T0) LTD SMG 0 0 0 0 KIA 0
  DE Army May 11 17:11 - 17:11 arenholt (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE (T0) LTD SMG 0 0 0 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:10 - 17:10 arenholt (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT SMG 5 1 2 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:09 - 17:10 portion (UK (T0) Limited SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 18 1 2 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:08 - 17:09 portion (UK (T0) Limited SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 9 2 3 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:04 - 17:08 arenholt (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE SMG 104 3 8 2 KIA 3
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 17:04 - 17:04 portion (UK Ltd Sten SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT (T0) LTD SMG 17 1 2 0 KIA 0
  DE Army May 11 17:03 - 17:04   Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense DE Rifleman 0 0 0 0 RTB 0
  DE Army May 11 17:02 - 17:03 portion (UK Ltd Sten SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT SMG 0 0 0 0 KIA 1
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:57 - 17:02 bursar (UK Engineer) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT (T0) LTD SMG 48 2 5 1 KIA 4
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:53 - 16:57 pelikan1 (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT (T0) LTD SMG 127 5 11 2 KIA 4
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:52 - 16:53 bursar (UK SMG) Eghezee Egheeze-Hannut Depot Defense IT SMG 5 1 3 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:51 - 16:51 razerzd (UK SMG) Eghezee Eghezee-Andenne Depot Attack IT SMG 35 2 5 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:48 - 16:51 razerzd (UK SMG) Eghezee Eghezee-Andenne Depot Attack DE SMG 146 9 23 0 KIA 2
  DE Army May 11 16:48 - 16:48 krenan69 (UK Sten SMG) Eghezee Eghezee-Andenne Depot Attack DE SMG 0 0 0 0 KIA 0
  DE Army May 11 16:47 - 16:48 portion (UK Sten SMG) Eghezee Eghezee-Andenne Depot Attack DE SMG 0 0 0 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:47 - 16:47 portion (UK Sten SMG) Eghezee Eghezee-Andenne Depot Attack IT (T0) LTD SMG 17 1 2 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:46 - 16:47 arenholt (UK SMG) Eghezee Eghezee-Andenne Depot Attack IT SMG 18 1 1 0 KIA 0
rightarrow.png DE Army May 11 16:37 - 16:46 sneipen (UK Rifleman) Andenne Andenne-Eghezee FB Attack IT SMG 127 6 22 1 KIA 8
  DE Army May 11 16:36 - 16:37   Andenne Andenne-Eghezee FB Attack Pak 36 0 0 2 0 RTB 0
  DE Army May 11 16:35 - 16:36   Andenne Andenne-Eghezee FB Attack IT SMG 5 0 0 0 RTB 0
  DE Army May 11 16:32 - 16:35   Andenne Andenne-Eghezee FB Attack Opel 0 0 0 0 MIA 3

This is me making an ms into egh.... capping the spawn..... and then defending it by myself for 50 mins.  I had 1 helper for the last 10  9:1 just like I said, huh go figure......

Edited by kgarner
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and for the record they never capped the cp..... they had to blow the fb

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when 1 cp defender can hold up 9 different tags...... plus however many had to go blow the fb just so they could actually get the depo back...... defender advantage is MUCH to high

Edited by kgarner

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*** Oh, is that considered a capture ?

Yep, everything a capture now - and 50 rank points to boot. :(  And participation award....... everyone in CP gets points and capture.

 

Use to be, 1 person gets cap, there were no recaps, and rank points were 20...... my have we got soft.

 

And yes, capture times way to long and sliding scale way to severe.

Edited by delems

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10 hours ago, kgarner said:

and for the record they never capped the cp..... they had to blow the fb

You top capper?

 

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On 5/11/2019 at 6:41 PM, B2K said:

The differentiated cap timer in less than a year old.

Not sure if the relevant data points will make it to wiretap

 

Ok, but I'm asking for the purposes of this thread.

 

To recap-

WANT dataset source of what is sampled, local/side/global, sample time range and cyclic rate to determine ratio for side SD, spawn/respawn SD, and cap timers.

 

My theory is that there is a disconnect between one or more of these working at different times and/or different sample populations, thus rendering different results that make us think we can be underpopped and overpenalized at the same time.  Seems that way sometimes from an objective and not just subjective experience. 

 

Secondarily, we can take a good hard look at the capping multiplier and how to actually help greater then 50% overpop situations.   The combination can hurt overpop or underpop at different points, and we also need to look at some counter-intuitive consequences of these settings.

 

@OHM @XOOM as per Capco's recommendation.

Edited by Kilemall
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16 hours ago, agenda21 said:

You top capper?

 

not quite, sir.  You rule the day on that front for sure.  I have been tanking alot more this campaign.... alas capping is less important than attrition in the new 1.36 game mechanics (in certain situations anyway).

@agenda21 In any event, doing as much capping as you do im sure you know better than I do...... 1) most successful caps go unnoticed for at least 50% of the progress.  If the defender fines out before that or is defending from the start.  It's not possible to cap without overwhelming force.  2) The vast majority of caps that are successful are single ninja solo caps that go completely unmolested.  3)  Getting other friendlies to help cap a cp is getting harder and harder.  Only dedicated players know the importance of getting in the CP and getting a hard cap off.  The vast majority would rather snipe the AB from a window.  They might get a few kills before dying but achieve no lasting strategic outcome.  Can't really say I blame them though,  they want action..... not what is probably certain death for them.  Without some incentive to help your teammates cap a cp..... less will take part in it.  If the multiplier was more intense that incentive would exist.

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Perhaps combined with more rank advancement? God knows we have to bring the new guys into the fold so they can see the tactical and strategic glory that our game CAN SHOW. Unfortunately,  at the moment its ninja caps, followed by a flood. 

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11 hours ago, kgarner said:

3)  Getting other friendlies to help cap a cp is getting harder and harder.  Only dedicated players know the importance of getting in the CP and getting a hard cap off.  The vast majority would rather snipe the AB from a window.  They might get a few kills before dying but achieve no lasting strategic outcome.  Can't really say I blame them though,  they want action..... not what is probably certain death for them.  Without some incentive to help your teammates cap a cp..... less will take part in it.  If the multiplier was more intense that incentive would exist.

The game's CQB is bad. Not just lag, but the units and building layout make the cp gameplay dull.

Compare the 1 and only cp buildingsl and layout to the general town buildings and their layouts. The latter offers more engaging and interesting gameplay, the former is stale after a week.

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2 hours ago, major0noob said:

The game's CQB is bad. Not just lag, but the units and building layout make the cp gameplay dull.

Compare the 1 and only cp buildingsl and layout to the general town buildings and their layouts. The latter offers more engaging and interesting gameplay, the former is stale after a week.

In one sense yes. 

I call them the pizza hut buildings, after the American restaurant.

Red-Roof-1080x761.jpg

In other senses, no.

 

The relation of the spawn building to the pizza hut capture building plus other buildings/terrain that allow jumping onto the capture building, snipe/nade plus differing situations with or without damage state makes for more scenarios then just run through a pattern spraying and praying.

 

 

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So you are saying a fully kitted out soldier jumping from the roof of a two-story building onto the roof of a cp below it and firing in one motion is good close quarter gameplay?

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17 minutes ago, dropbear said:

So you are saying a fully kitted out soldier jumping from the roof of a two-story building onto the roof of a cp below it and firing in one motion is good close quarter gameplay?

Thanks to lag, there IS no good close quarter play.  But it is variable layout and interaction, and that's what I was refuting.

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1 hour ago, Kilemall said:

Thanks to lag, there IS no good close quarter play.  But it is variable layout and interaction, and that's what I was refuting.

Variable in a limited scope. Fighting in between cp's is more fun than in the pizza hut.

 

Honestly, i let people cap just to play in the fun of the post-cap game.

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1 hour ago, major0noob said:

Variable in a limited scope. Fighting in between cp's is more fun than in the pizza hut.

 

Honestly, i let people cap just to play in the fun of the post-cap game.

Ran into some allies who don't recap but wait for a defender to show, up, THEN try to cap while killing the depot defender.  I imagine the idea was to generate attrition.  I got the last laugh, killing an SMG team multiple times with rifles, which in the current supply regimen means I won.

 

The game is often what you make of it.

Edited by Kilemall

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