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      Forum Upgrade - 7 Jun.   06/01/2020

      The initial phase of the forum updating has been completed.  We will now be moving onto Phase II: Software update:   The current forum software is in need up an update to current version.  We have been testing the newer version, and are ready to update our live forums.    Themes: The Current WWIIOL Theme will be retired as part of the forum update.  It is non-compatible with the newer forum software.  A new WWIIOL Theme will be added after upgrade (as part of the upgade if everything goes smooth).   Once the update is completed the forums should look the same, but perform significantly better.   We will also be able to potentially expand functionality to include features and add-ons that are not available with our current version of the forum software.   There will be a few hours of downtime beginning on 7 Jun in the the early evening Server Time. 
Mosizlak

Free to Play has to go.

182 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, aismov said:

Yup, I agree. Focus should start shifting to WWIIOL 2.0 with a planned Crowdfunding drive in 2020.

I agree with this!

Enough tweaking with  the gameplay of the current game already.

Its time for the Rats to take the next big step:   New game engine! :)

Edited by krazydog
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22 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

So where is all this money gonna come from?

Probably Crowdfunding.  Look at what Star Cirizen did.

How was this original game financed?  What does the current owner of this game think?  I don’t think he (they) have ever made a public comment of what they think  about the future of this game version 2.0.

All I know is they probably should not expect to milk ww2 Online  (v.1) forever.  That is a sure path to a slow death of this game.

Its time to think about the furure life of this 20th Century game for the 21st Century - before the competition leapfrogs this game.

Cheers!

P.S.   when I say “crowdfunding”, that means raising money outside the existing playerbase.  WW2 is a popular mmo game genre, just like space sims.  

Edited by krazydog

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Wonder if CRS would object to players doing a crowdfunding campaign, in consultation and coordination with them of course. 

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56 minutes ago, krazydog said:

How was this original game financed?

From various places, one of which was Killer mortgaging his own house as well as others kicking into the kitty, but that only gets things so far
Then on to formal investors and the publisher, and the story of that is something for another thread.

17 minutes ago, sorella said:

so like we're going to crowdfund a WW2 Space Game?

Have you been peeking into the double secret alpha screenshots again?
Medium Bomber
bc4wLlU.png

Naval Base
qZyTaPH.png

Fighter
MtkeJDy.png

Aircraft Carrier (not finished)
FGu2XE2.png

FB under attack
nbV8gIi.png

AF
kBkaz32.png

Hatch still working on the flight model, its a bit unstable
GpDdDDH.gif

RDP factory
7isPJ65.png

 

 

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crowdfunding...

look at it from a outside perspective

 

CRS has a game already, it's on steam with "mostly negative" reviews

they also have a proven reputation of not updating a game, it was beyond their control but it doesn't matter. it's in their history now

 

 

not trying to be negative, but you have to look at this critically, the above 2 points are instant dealbreakers.

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52 minutes ago, major0noob said:

crowdfunding...

look at it from a outside perspective

 

CRS has a game already, it's on steam with "mostly negative" reviews

they also have a proven reputation of not updating a game, it was beyond their control but it doesn't matter. it's in their history now

 

 

not trying to be negative, but you have to look at this critically, the above 2 points are instant dealbreakers.

dear debbie downer: you are trying to be negative, you are nothing but negative but you are anything but a critical thinker, to wit:

  • any subscription game surviving today is essentially, prima facie,  crowdfunded 
  • CRS 2.0 has had a least three if not more successful crowd-funding campaigns to improve and update aspects of the game already 
  • whatever one chooses to think of CRS 1.0/ the 2.0s have  updated the game, physically, technically and with new gameplay elements and units more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 ten  years

not trying to be indelicate, as you might say, but with all the things wrong with the game, CRS and some subscribers are tying to move ahead to make it better - will it work? who knows. its adapted and overcome so far, longer than most other games. so one can only urge you to step up, subscribe and join the crowd, or as a non-paying, holier than thou, endlessly repetitive critic with no substance, just STFU - because so far, you contribute nothing of value - no ideas, no insights and no money.  

 

Edited by sorella
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6 hours ago, sorella said:

whatever one chooses to think of CRS 1.0/ the 2.0s have  updated the game, physically, technically and with new gameplay elements and units more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 ten  years

This is really interesting to hear.

I get the emails, but I tried the WBS because of being poked by another old player (randazzo) who PMed me on another forum, yet somehow I was not aware of any increase in dev pace recently. It probably doesn't help that I get the emails at an old address I haven't used much in a long time.

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7 hours ago, sorella said:

dear debbie downer: you are trying to be negative, you are nothing but negative but you are anything but a critical thinker, to wit:

  • any subscription game surviving today is essentially, prima facie,  crowdfunded 
  • CRS 2.0 has had a least three if not more successful crowd-funding campaigns to improve and update aspects of the game already 
  • whatever one chooses to think of CRS 1.0/ the 2.0s have  updated the game, physically, technically and with new gameplay elements and units more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 ten  years

not trying to be indelicate, as you might say, but with all the things wrong with the game, CRS and some subscribers are tying to move ahead to make it better - will it work? who knows. its adapted and overcome so far, longer than most other games. so one can only urge you to step up, subscribe and join the crowd, or as a non-paying, holier than thou, endlessly repetitive critic with no substance, just STFU - because so far, you contribute nothing of value - no ideas, no insights and no money.  

 

i'm talking 10x the $$$ of the previous crowdfunds

 

 

at least 300,000$ is needed, likley 600,000. these are funds that the existing PB is not able to provide; they will need to draw from outside the fanbase. with that in mind, just look at their steam reviews and the game itself (it's clearly in 2000-03)

I'm trying to talk without fan bias, this is a serious $$$ project.

go in game and ask if people will be willing to fund 1000$ each and subscribe to the new game. try to sell the game to the random masses, 60$ plus a sub.

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5 minutes ago, major0noob said:

i'm talking 10x the $$$ of the previous crowdfunds

 

 

at least 300,000$ is needed, likley 600,000. these are funds that the existing PB is not able to provide; they will need to draw from outside the fanbase. with that in mind, just look at their steam reviews and the game itself (it's clearly in 2000-03)

I'm trying to talk without fan bias, this is a serious $$$ project.

go in game and ask if people will be willing to fund 1000$ each and subscribe to the new game. try to sell the game to the random masses, 60$ plus a sub.

we all understand this.  WWIIOL 2.0 would be a big project that would take tons of money (way more than $600k) and a long time - Shroud of the Avatar (Garrett) started in 2013 with $1.9M crowd-sourced, another $1M investors, and $400 one time subs to contribute new art assets - its still basically in FTP with micro-xactions beta.  Iron Harvest CS'd $1.5M; Wasteland3 CS'd, $3M+; ShenMueIII $6M+; all still unreleased. 

keeping 1.0 alive (or floating or on hold) whilst trying to move towards a crowd-sourced 2.0 - would be a difficult, literally game-changing, high stakes, long-term, big deal decision for CRS and the volunteers. but hey, as they say in NYC, yanevahknow. 

and congrats, major, on the somewhat positive, forward-looking, in-your-heart-you-love- this-game-post. keep 'em coming. 

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An alternate viewpoint: raising $1mil or more is pie in the sky. Crowdfunding for this game means the small crowd that already cares about it.

OTOH, as Xoom has recently said, the exactly-right-now income level isn't a viable business. I don't know his details, but I understand that summary.

Maybe getting to WWIIOL 2.0 means continuing as CRS is...shoestring basis, volunteers, occasional fundraising...though with more subscribers because Xoom has told us it's that or the end, and with fewer or no ex-subscriber freeloaders because freeloaders are inconsistent with that business model.

That's what CRS has a proven ability to do.

Yes, it'll be slow. Yes, it's human nature to want immediate gratification, right now, not later. Too bad, most of us are grownups, we can't have 2.0 right now, so we wait and have it later.  

I don't see any other real world paths forward except for CRS to keep going as they are now, with a few financial improvements.

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What I've dared, I've willed; and what I've willed, I'll do. 

Where is Ahab when you need him?

Well, I guess waiting for Godot ain't so bad if the company's alright.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jwilly said:

An alternate viewpoint: raising $1mil or more is pie in the sky. Crowdfunding for this game means the small crowd that already cares about it.

OTOH, as Xoom has recently said, the exactly-right-now income level isn't a viable business. I don't know his details, but I understand that summary.

Maybe getting to WWIIOL 2.0 means continuing as CRS is...shoestring basis, volunteers, occasional fundraising...though with more subscribers because Xoom has told us it's that or the end, and with fewer or no ex-subscriber freeloaders because freeloaders are inconsistent with that business model.

That's what CRS has a proven ability to do.

Yes, it'll be slow. Yes, it's human nature to want immediate gratification, right now, not later. Too bad, most of us are grownups, we can't have 2.0 right now, so we wait and have it later.  

I don't see any other real world paths forward except for CRS to keep going as they are now, with a few financial improvements.

I don't think 1.0 is going to live that long - hence my support for a 2.0 project. Also, the aim will be to get a MUCH wider audience than we have now. Not only will that be a good thing it is a must, our small vet core isn't likely enough. Look at what projects like HHL are doing, its possible with the right communication. The WW2OL model has a ton of promise if taken into the future. 

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1 hour ago, jwilly said:

An alternate viewpoint: raising $1mil or more is pie in the sky. Crowdfunding for this game means the small crowd that already cares about it.

 

I don't necessarily see why crowdfunding is going to come from current fans. WWIIOL has enough of a large fan base who enjoyed the game at one point and certainly would get exited about at WWIIOL 2.0 and with a decent marketing push this could work to also capture a lot of other players who like the WWII and MMO genre.

Realistically this game would need to raise closer to $5-10 MM to be able to get things done in a reasonable time frame, which is a reach but doable if it is done the right way. That amount of money gets you about 15-20 full time developers for a good 3 years plus all the associated costs (assuming the a developer with full overhead costs about in the $150k/year range).

Even getting something like 50,000 people  would get us more than half of the way there assuming they pledge $50 bucks. With some clever crowdfunding tiers you could easily get guys contributing much more, especially early in the development. Fortunately unlike lots of Indie games WWIIOL has some benefits:

1) established name (for better or worse, I think better)

2) popular genre 

3) not niche product (sorta)

4) Dev team with established track record (again for better or worse)

5) maturing technology that makes the original vision more realistic to achieve than 2001

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1 hour ago, aismov said:

 

I don't necessarily see why crowdfunding is going to come from current fans. WWIIOL has enough of a large fan base who enjoyed the game at one point and certainly would get exited about at WWIIOL 2.0 and with a decent marketing push this could work to also capture a lot of other players who like the WWII and MMO genre.

Realistically this game would need to raise closer to $5-10 MM to be able to get things done in a reasonable time frame, which is a reach but doable if it is done the right way. That amount of money gets you about 15-20 full time developers for a good 3 years plus all the associated costs (assuming the a developer with full overhead costs about in the $150k/year range).

Even getting something like 50,000 people  would get us more than half of the way there assuming they pledge $50 bucks. With some clever crowdfunding tiers you could easily get guys contributing much more, especially early in the development. Fortunately unlike lots of Indie games WWIIOL has some benefits:

1) established name (for better or worse, I think better)

2) popular genre 

3) not niche product (sorta)

4) Dev team with established track record (again for better or worse)

5) maturing technology that makes the original vision more realistic to achieve than 2001

+1 

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I don't see getting 50K individuals to donate an average of $50 each as anything more than a fantasy. 

None of the crowd funding efforts to date have validated that level of optimism.

 

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3 minutes ago, jwilly said:

I don't see getting 50K individuals to donate an average of $50 each as anything more than a fantasy. 

None of the crowd funding efforts to date have validated that level of optimism.

I don't see it either.  

 

I also don't see any other way forward in regards to WWIIOL 2.0.  There's only so much gas left in this game engine.  

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22 minutes ago, jwilly said:

I don't see getting 50K individuals to donate an average of $50 each as anything more than a fantasy. 

None of the crowd funding efforts to date have validated that level of optimism.

There is a big difference from crowdfunding small improvements in a current game versus crowdfunding a completely new game. The first only appeals to current active players, the second appeals to anyone who likes WWII games.

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16 hours ago, sorella said:

so like we're going to crowdfund a WW2 Space Game?

 

I know you're just kidding ;) but as for it being a WW2 game, just want to point out to everyone that Hell Let Loose was crowdfunded. Crowdfunding is probably the only way to go with what we are talking about (in terms of getting to a 2.0), short of some benefactor deciding he/she wants to bankroll the whole thing.

Soooo... any long time players in line for a huge windfall, inheritance, etc? 

Edited by hillstorm

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I know that when 2.0 didn’t even feature in this years roadmap I felt pretty disappointed - 2.0 talk was one of the reasons I came back at all. Really think there is a ton of future potential here moving past 1.0

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For humor and contagious enthousiasm, I vote ryman89 for crowdfunding spokesman.

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22 hours ago, aismov said:

3) not niche product (sorta)

Unless WWIIOnline takes a drastically different path, it is a very niche game. Successful modern games, particularly shooters, are all about the availability of quick action. Very few people are willing to spend 20 minutes driving/flying/staring at CP walls and not doing anything but. This is made worse if a person only has an hour to play. Games like World of Tanks/Warplanes/Battleships also provide the quick action fix. What is the draw of WWIIonline to "modern" gamers?

Edit: This is not a rhetorical "my opinion is superior" question, but a real one.

Edited by Randazzo
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