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      NEW Career Subscriptions now available   06/08/2019

      The all new highly anticipated / requested "Career Based Subscriptions" are available through www.WWIIONLINE.com/account only, starting at $9.99! There are three new subscriptions being added; 1) All Infantry at $9.99/mo, 2) All Air Forces at $9.99/mo, 3) All Ground Forces (Army Persona) at $12.99/mo. Continue reading to learn more and get back into the fight now! View the full article on battlegroundeurope.com
Mosizlak

Free to Play has to go.

187 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, sorella said:

so like we're going to crowdfund a WW2 Space Game?

 

I know you're just kidding ;) but as for it being a WW2 game, just want to point out to everyone that Hell Let Loose was crowdfunded. Crowdfunding is probably the only way to go with what we are talking about (in terms of getting to a 2.0), short of some benefactor deciding he/she wants to bankroll the whole thing.

Soooo... any long time players in line for a huge windfall, inheritance, etc? 

Edited by hillstorm

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I know that when 2.0 didn’t even feature in this years roadmap I felt pretty disappointed - 2.0 talk was one of the reasons I came back at all. Really think there is a ton of future potential here moving past 1.0

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For humor and contagious enthousiasm, I vote ryman89 for crowdfunding spokesman.

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22 hours ago, aismov said:

3) not niche product (sorta)

Unless WWIIOnline takes a drastically different path, it is a very niche game. Successful modern games, particularly shooters, are all about the availability of quick action. Very few people are willing to spend 20 minutes driving/flying/staring at CP walls and not doing anything but. This is made worse if a person only has an hour to play. Games like World of Tanks/Warplanes/Battleships also provide the quick action fix. What is the draw of WWIIonline to "modern" gamers?

Edit: This is not a rhetorical "my opinion is superior" question, but a real one.

Edited by Randazzo
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On the actual topic of the thread, I'll say the same thing I've said in every single other thread like this pops up.

I joined the community as F2P recurring 'Free Trial' in 2011 and immediately fell in love. I was going to a top-tier university entirely funded by student loans because my family wasn't well-off by any means. The only disposable income I had was through the university and money from birthdays and Christmas. I literally could not afford a subscription.

I played at a time when F2P couldn't make FRUs, couldn't cap, but could spawn restricted rank 1 and rank 2 stuff in the Army. I fell in with Windhund and tried to do everything I could to help my squad and my side.

I drove trucks to tow and resupply people. Pushed ATG and AAA for sometimes hours on a single life to interdict the enemy. I would flank for 10 minutes at a time to make sure I destroyed critical enemy FRUs. I drove 232s and 2cs to explicitly fulfill infantry support roles, recon, and screening for higher-value tanks. I defended caps. I was the point man for assaulting caps since my soldier's life was inherently worth less because I couldn't cap. I felt like I constantly let down my squad when I was the last one left alive but couldn't put down my own FRU. Etc.

 

I had an absolute blast.

I left the game around 2012-2013 when the previous F2P model was replaced with one that got rid of most of the stuff I loved. I couldn't spawn a truck. I couldn't spawn better ATG or AAA. Couldn't spawn 232 or 2c.

The only thing I could do basically was ground-pound. Gone were all of the things I enjoyed doing, all of the ways I could functionally assist my squad and side.

All because "blah blah blah f2p no money freeloaders restrict everything blah blah blah". There was no "they'll pay if they want to keep playing" because I had no money.

Fast forward to 2016 or 2017 or so, and I figure I'll check it back out and see if the game and devs still acted like [censored] to their players. Some mixed results, but the Devs were trying to do nice things, and I went ahead and subscribed now that I had disposable income.

Joined as a volunteer developer from 2017-2018, made major contributions to 1.36 and planning some of the UI improvements that have teaser screenshots posted.

 

So I'm one example of someone WWIIOL would have lost if it pursued this ridiculous "F2P are teh ebilz" philosophy, and nearly did lose when it did pursue that nonsense.

Killing F2P isn't the answer. The game needs population so people are encouraged to log in to play. When people are encouraged to log in to play and have fun, they want to see more of the game. When they want to see more of the game, they sub. It's easy. It's 101.

You want to solve the jackasses sitting on F2P accounts so they can whine and moan in side chat and ruin morale for everyone playing? Mute those players. Give temporary mutes, then more substantial mutes when they won't shut up. Attempting to circumvent punishment by creating alt accounts constitutes a breach of TOS and results in an IP ban, which they can appeal when they get some basic human decency back.

Problem solved without ruining your chances for fresh blood into the game.

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1 hour ago, Randazzo said:

Unless WWIIOnline takes a drastically different path, it is a very niche game. Successful modern games, particularly shooters, are all about the availability of quick action. Very few people are willing to spend 20 minutes driving/flying/staring at CP walls and not doing anything but. This is made worse if a person only has an hour to play. Games like World of Tanks/Warplanes/Battleships also provide the quick action fix. What is the draw of WWIIonline to "modern" gamers?

Edit: This is not a rhetorical "my opinion is superior" question, but a real one.

I would argue that wargames are more popular than ever, if the number and quality of those available on steam is anything to go by. Look at flight simulation communities, Arma and mil-sim, PS, and soon to be HHL. WW2OL 2.0 could place itself right in the middle of that mix, because not all gamers are 30min twitch gamers, far from it. Sometimes I have 2 hours to give to WW2OL, sometimes 20 min. Either way, I find something to do. I don't subscribe to the idea that every modern gamer wants quick action, its just not true.    

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On topic, I think that the problem is that even with the current (awful, IMO) capture mechanics, the game only has a real chance at being more fun than work when the population on both sides is at some minimum, P, locally. So if there are multiple battles, B, going on, that min pop needs to be B*P. In many cases, it would be better if that total pop was not spread out into B battles, but was all in one place, frankly.

It seems like population is a serious issue these days. I got the email that said that an infantry only account was coming, and I was thinking of doing that, but if the game pop is such that I react to a call on chat to defend someplace, and find myself with 2 other people playing whack-a-mole to help my side for an hour... the sub fee starts looking like paying someone to do work. When they turn that on and I sub, I'll want F2P people if they bring the population up to that minimum number where battles are fun, because otherwise i'm paying to play in battles that are not fun (which makes no sense).

Regarding quick to action, the reality is that given the scope of the WW2OL map, if the game design was better (meta, not the FPS aspects), then the game should almost always be instant action anyway. Even with huge player numbers, there would never be anything like enough people for even the full spawn lists of a single Brigade to be spawned in all at once, in one place. If you imagine a front limited to just a few battles (AOs), then any population of players on a side that is lower than all available units to spawn, means the game could spawn them right to the front, since we're stuck serially playing people who by all rights should be deployed nearly all at once.

Edited by tater

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On 19/05/2019 at 2:56 AM, Mosizlak said:

The amount of vets who claim they hate the game yet still play under a free to play account is comical. 

Make it a 1 week free to play, that's all. 

Pretty sure CRS will make more money in the long run, cause those C-words who claim they hate the game who use F2P accounts will resub...

This seems a very immature thread, when most game have free accounts with total free access to forums.. 

Here you have premium forums which seems like counting peanuts and kinda goes agaisnt the basic idea of a forum:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_(legal)

Doing what you purpose would make WW2ol even more irrelevant of what it already is, cut the contact with past customers who care about the game but not see value or or dissatisfied with the game.

Not to mention that you will be left with a very small circle of players were everything is more right that wrong that point to flaw solutions or mechanics some that were implemented in the past and failed or are simply obsolete..

 

Also every free account that I see here barely plays the game if not exclusive participate in the forums myself included and the majority of players I see ingame and subscribers, the majority of active real players are not FPA... 

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4 hours ago, Randazzo said:

Unless WWIIOnline takes a drastically different path, it is a very niche game. Successful modern games, particularly shooters, are all about the availability of quick action. Very few people are willing to spend 20 minutes driving/flying/staring at CP walls and not doing anything but. This is made worse if a person only has an hour to play. Games like World of Tanks/Warplanes/Battleships also provide the quick action fix. What is the draw of WWIIonline to "modern" gamers?

Edit: This is not a rhetorical "my opinion is superior" question, but a real one.

I'll echo what other players have said about the popularity of milsims and the WWII genre vis-a-vis fast action. If you take for example Hearts of Iron 4, and WWII based grand strategy game (the very definition of slow paced and methodical) it has sold over a million copies and has an average daily steam playerbase of ~15000 (which doesn't include organic players who purchased via paradox store).

There is a ton of potential to improve and get lots of players. Hearts of Iron is a great example where the premise is popular but it required iteration to keep players engaged. Had Paradox stayed at Hearts of Iron 1 or 2 the essentially same game would have nowhere near the same traction it currently has.

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17 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

This seems a very immature thread, when most game have free accounts with total free access to forums.. 

Here you have premium forums which seems like counting peanuts and kinda goes agaisnt the basic idea of a forum:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_(legal)

Doing what you purpose would make WW2ol even more irrelevant of what it already is, cut the contact with past customers who care about the game but not see value or or dissatisfied with the game.

Not to mention that you will be left with a very small circle of players were everything is more right that wrong that point to flaw solutions or mechanics some that were implemented in the past and failed or are simply obsolete..

 

Also every free account that I see here barely plays the game if not exclusive participate in the forums myself included and the majority of players I see ingame and subscribers, the majority of active real players are not FPA... 

Shouldn't get free access to the game forever. 

1 week and deactivated.  Keep your general forum access to stay abreast of what's going on. 

Want to play the game? Pay like the rest of us.  

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5 hours ago, raptor34 said:

I would argue that wargames are more popular than ever, if the number and quality of those available on steam is anything to go by. Look at flight simulation communities, Arma and mil-sim, PS, and soon to be HHL. WW2OL 2.0 could place itself right in the middle of that mix, because not all gamers are 30min twitch gamers, far from it. Sometimes I have 2 hours to give to WW2OL, sometimes 20 min. Either way, I find something to do. I don't subscribe to the idea that every modern gamer wants quick action, its just not true.    

not all players, but restricting the consumer base to people that play for 2 hour sessions will only drive population down.

while side switching, it's pretty obvious the allies rely on people that play for less than an hour. these guys also made a significant portion of the population before the spawns changed

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I wonder if the psychological customer-changes brought about by FTP...with a sizeable part of the old customer base now thinking they can and should get the game for free...have destroyed the ability of CRS to conduct successful crowdfunding appeals.

Edited by jwilly

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3 hours ago, jwilly said:

I wonder if the psychological customer-changes brought about by FTP...with a sizeable part of the old customer base now thinking they can and should get the game for free...have destroyed the ability of CRS to conduct successful crowdfunding appeals.

Don't know about that.

 

DO know that what appeals to crowdfunders is specific desirable goals and measurable results, which requires transparency.  In most cases I think CRS 2.0 has fulfilled their campaigns, so if the cause is good I could see ponying up again.

 

I imagine the problem with crowdfunding in this case is they want to hire a programmer and it will be that much more difficult to do so with a variable crowdfunding result deciding whether the job continues.  That and these builder accounts are probably more of a commitment to steady cash flow.

Edited by Kilemall

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17 hours ago, Kilemall said:

DO know that what appeals to crowdfunders is specific desirable goals and measurable results, which requires transparency.  In most cases I think CRS 2.0 has fulfilled their campaigns, so if the cause is good I could see ponying up again.

I imagine the problem with crowdfunding in this case is they want to hire a programmer and it will be that much more difficult to do so with a variable crowdfunding result deciding whether the job continues.  That and these builder accounts are probably more of a commitment to steady cash flow.

I think I every big benefit for any WWIIOL 2.0 is that there is 1) new development team and 2) CRS 2.0 has delivered on their road maps.

Crowdfunding is all about excitement and developing narratives. A WWIIOL 2.0 will general create excitement on its own, but people won't fund if they are wary of the people behind the project. I think that the "clean break from CRS 1.0" and willingness to make big game changes (1.36, etc) co struts a very compelling narrative that would combat any people saying "don't give money to these devs! It's the same group from 2001 that screwed it up in the first place!"

Im certainly more of an optimist but I think a well done crowdfunding push would be very successeful.

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21 hours ago, jwilly said:

I wonder if the psychological customer-changes brought about by FTP...with a sizeable part of the old customer base now thinking they can and should get the game for free...have destroyed the ability of CRS to conduct successful crowdfunding appeals.

look at the steam reviews page, there are multiple former builders writing page-long extremely negative reviews about the game and the company and mentioning everything that irks them

it's not some mystery

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On 2019-05-21 at 4:26 PM, pbveteran said:

"who care about the game but not see value or or dissatisfied with the game"

They do see value in it. They would not be here if they didn't see value in it. Value=their time, energy. But they want it for free.

Fine! Participate, that helps the game.....but they shouldn't be complaining about the game when they actually are not putting some hard cash down.

Some good constructive criticism sure... but complaining, using excuses for why they don't want to pay etc.... That's a no go for me.

Because they value the game those types of player should support it, with cash or at least with positive input and not "slagging" on the game especially since it's not the same dev's.

It seems pretty straightforward to me at least.

S!

 

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S! All! Well after a massive hiatus, Im back! Its been a long time since 2005, a short jaunt in 2012 and after a few emails its lured me back in. Currently downloading. I didnt bother with a freebie, the best part about this game is the ability to retain your status from previous years so Im unsure why anyone would want to go through all that again.
Looking forward to catching up with the oldies. I might even get back amongst the 101st Airborne. 
Anyone know if Gunnie, Knight31, Joker, Bart and Bigmex73 is till around? 

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On ‎21‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 11:28 PM, aismov said:

I'll echo what other players have said about the popularity of milsims and the WWII genre vis-a-vis fast action. If you take for example Hearts of Iron 4, and WWII based grand strategy game (the very definition of slow paced and methodical) it has sold over a million copies and has an average daily steam playerbase of ~15000 (which doesn't include organic players who purchased via paradox store).

There is a ton of potential to improve and get lots of players. Hearts of Iron is a great example where the premise is popular but it required iteration to keep players engaged. Had Paradox stayed at Hearts of Iron 1 or 2 the essentially same game would have nowhere near the same traction it currently has.

Ask Paradox for free to play, and free updates - lol! :D 

HOI is nothing like this game, and HOI4 is a truly dumbed down almost "arcade" game compared to the complexity of previous versions. HOI is not a subscription game, and its game play can be paused or speeded up at the players whim - I am really struggling to see the similarities other than a WWII background. Combat is abstracted, essentially an algorithm with some RGNs thrown in, and isn't influenced by player actions once set in motion, it also usually takes place at a minimum of Divisional level. Group online play usually ends with disconnects and sync issues, so all in all, nothing like WWIIOL.

 

S! ian 

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1 hour ago, atac said:

S! All! Well after a massive hiatus, Im back! Its been a long time since 2005, a short jaunt in 2012 and after a few emails its lured me back in. Currently downloading. I didnt bother with a freebie, the best part about this game is the ability to retain your status from previous years so Im unsure why anyone would want to go through all that again.
Looking forward to catching up with the oldies. I might even get back amongst the 101st Airborne. 
Anyone know if Gunnie, Knight31, Joker, Bart and Bigmex73 is till around? 

WB! S! looking forward to more death from above. not sure on any of the names there, except hmm, maybe joker?  others may know more. post up in the Barracks maybe. 

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F2P are the worst.

They run around and rule the game with rifles.

Autos, Tanks and most Planes have no chance against such players.

I think its time to punch these suckers were it hurts.

No Bino

No Stats

No Mission

2x Opel available

2 shot rifle

Spoon instead of knife (Possibly spork)

PPO - Giant Yellow Picachu - no electricity

Keyboard will not type the following four letters in chat N,O,O,B

Only Squad available is Xooms

Lastly a printable mandatory ftp pdf printable paper blindfold must be worn

Lets get this figured out!

Tar and Feather any free party riders!

S!

LIES

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35 minutes ago, nily said:

F2P are the worst.

They run around and rule the game with rifles.

Autos, Tanks and most Planes have no chance against such players.

I think its time to punch these suckers were it hurts.

No Bino

No Stats

No Mission

2x Opel available

2 shot rifle

Spoon instead of knife (Possibly spork)

PPO - Giant Yellow Picachu - no electricity

Keyboard will not type the following four letters in chat N,O,O,B

Only Squad available is Xooms

Lastly a printable mandatory ftp pdf printable paper blindfold must be worn

Lets get this figured out!

Tar and Feather any free party riders!

S!

LIES

His point, in case you missed it, is some of the few paying subs that are left are sick of carrying the water for the F2P vets you see running around and shooting their mouths off in the forums. Maybe time to stop living off the fat and open up the pocket book, that is all. The game is suffering. Comments not directed to anyone in particular.

Edited by choad
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2 hours ago, atac said:

S! All! Well after a massive hiatus, Im back! Its been a long time since 2005, a short jaunt in 2012 and after a few emails its lured me back in. Currently downloading. I didnt bother with a freebie, the best part about this game is the ability to retain your status from previous years so Im unsure why anyone would want to go through all that again.
Looking forward to catching up with the oldies. I might even get back amongst the 101st Airborne. 
Anyone know if Gunnie, Knight31, Joker, Bart and Bigmex73 is till around? 

Since May 3, only 10 101st have played (you can look them up on the squad members link on the stats page) I think the only names you will recognize are Strike69, Ratzilla and  Johnny70

Also, unfortunately I don't think many people jump anymore (at least not as a squad).

 

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rax was pretty dead for the past few months...

 

22 minutes ago, choad said:

Maybe time to stop living off the fat and open up the pocket book, that is all. The game is suffering

this new low came directly after "the hardest campaign ever", with a huge backlash. even the long anticipated 1.36 and heavily populated WBS couldn't undo its effects.

its up to CRS to recognize negative feedback and trolling. as far as i could tell they saw no difference and correctly ignored the trolling while lumping the negative feedback in with it.

 

just as a example of negative feedback: we as a community, agreed the game is not F2P and branding it as such on steam would be a very bad move. most steam reviews reflected our prediction.

again, its up to CRS to recognize feedback.

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1 hour ago, milo said:

Since May 3, only 10 101st have played (you can look them up on the squad members link on the stats page) I think the only names you will recognize are Strike69, Ratzilla and  Johnny70

Also, unfortunately I don't think many people jump anymore (at least not as a squad).

 

I'm the only effective paradropper during my play time on the Axis side, even though the supply and MG situation practically sets a neon sign up blinking 'Free MGs and Sapper Supply For The Price Of A Plane Ride'.

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unfortunately paratroopers are currently worthless outside a few rare scenarios, and they can easily harm the side trying to use them due to the dynamic capture timers

they are worthless because capture timers are very long, because paratroopers organizing on a field or sitting in a plane still count towards global population, and because they rely on surprise but there is no way to keep the mission a secret or attack a target without announcing it to the other team

really paratroopers are the most unique feature of ww2online, but like most of game's assets they sit unused because no real effort is made to make them useful gameplay-wise...which leaves nostalgia, roleplaying or just curiosity as the only reasons to spawn them

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