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      Operation Burning Skies   09/17/2019

      All pilots scramble!  Strap yourself in for this months Community event - Operation Burning Skies! This Sunday, September 22, 11 am – 5 pm server time. In honor of XOOM and friends showcasing WWII Online at the Oregon International  Air Show – our forces too will battle for superiority in Operation Burning Skies. High Commands are on high alert to rally their forces to victory! Lift off, and see a whole new world of WWII Online… Fearless bomber pilots make the skies rain down fire – our daring fighter pilots are in pursuit of their prey- as western Europe erupts in war on the ground below! Rally your squads, rally your buddies - Combined arms are back!  …Under Burning Skies! SALUTE!
dwalin

We've had the "Hardest Campaign Ever", how about this one for "Most Boring Campaign Ever"?

112 posts in this topic

I am hoping the rats fine tune things for next campaign a bit, to try and find that sweet spot. The nice thing is .... groundwork is there.

I have been saying theat the following would result in more fun all around ... and help bolster the strategy side of the game.

1) Add a few more moveable flags ... not many

2) Garrison supply consists of core units.  Lower tier stuff. A tier or two behind.

3) Newly introduced stuff that comes in tier progression ... mostly goes to moveable flags. The top tier equipment, difference making stuff.

4) moveable flags have very few standard equipment that you would find in every garrison. So if every town has 100 rifles, maybe the moveable armor flag has 10 rifles and moveable inf flag has 60 or something like that. U get the idea.

So .... imagine tier 0, not every brit garrison gets mattys, they are in moveable flags. When the tiger is first introduced .... not in every town along the front, but moveable flags have them.

Similarly .... you could do the same with top tier inf weapons (bazookas when they come in, grease gun, fg42, etc) ... after a tier or two they become commonplace and are in garrisons. So maybe final tier all garrissons have tigers or whatever it is .. tier 5 or 6. Point is ... when equipment comes in, limit it a bit to moveable flags (sorry csm).

 

Edited by choad
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It never ceases to amaze me that in a GAME that people PAY to play to shoot things ( and be shot)   the solution tossed around is REDUCE supply.

When they take away the toys can they also raise the price ?   That would be perfect

 

 

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20 minutes ago, hondo said:

It never ceases to amaze me that in a GAME that people PAY to play to shoot things ( and be shot)   the solution tossed around is REDUCE supply.

When they take away the toys can they also raise the price ?   That would be perfect

 

 

They already tried that, taking away the majority of the semi and autos. 

No one wanted to play with rifles all day except a few nuts lol. 

Take away access to the good stuff and people will quit. No one wants unlimited supply, but we do want to be able to spawn what we want some of the times. 

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1 hour ago, choad said:

I am hoping the rats fine tune things for next campaign a bit, to try and find that sweet spot. The nice thing is .... groundwork is there.

I have been saying theat the following would result in more fun all around ... and help bolster the strategy side of the game.

1) Add a few more moveable flags ... not many

2) Garrison supply consists of core units.  Lower tier stuff. A tier or two behind.

3) Newly introduced stuff that comes in tier progression ... mostly goes to moveable flags. The top tier equipment, difference making stuff.

4) moveable flags have very few standard equipment that you would find in every garrison. So if every town has 100 rifles, maybe the moveable armor flag has 10 rifles and moveable inf flag has 60 or something like that. U get the idea.

So .... imagine tier 0, not every brit garrison gets mattys, they are in moveable flags. When the tiger is first introduced .... not in every town along the front, but moveable flags have them.

Similarly .... you could do the same with top tier inf weapons (bazookas when they come in, grease gun, fg42, etc) ... after a tier or two they become commonplace and are in garrisons. So maybe final tier all garrissons have tigers or whatever it is .. tier 5 or 6. Point is ... when equipment comes in, limit it a bit to moveable flags (sorry csm).

 

instead of using powerful teleporting spawn lists managed by unpaid game admins as a way to create imbalance and break the frontline, maybe the the devs could stop strangling the tactical game

I mean if the complaint is that the map isn't moving fast enough then there are easy solutions

if the complaint is that "we can't camp two towns and then put the entire enemy faction in panic mode for the next two days like we used to" well then that's another issue entirely

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I think folks will find that the campaign map will move faster once the respective HCs have a better handle on what needs to be done in this new environment.

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8 minutes ago, augetout said:

I think folks will find that the campaign map will move faster once the respective HCs have a better handle on what needs to be done in this new environment.

One can hope.

S!

 

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Bring back most/all the flags for attack

Garrison supply number should reduce to pre 1.36KM infantry supply number, and cannot spawn at fb, so the limited supply can only be use to defend

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3 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

They already tried that, taking away the majority of the semi and autos. 

No one wanted to play with rifles all day except a few nuts lol. 

Take away access to the good stuff and people will quit. No one wants unlimited supply, but we do want to be able to spawn what we want some of the times. 

i meant a reduction across the board, for both sides. none of that 50% autos nonsense.

so attrition's effects will have results sooner, and be a bit more decisive.

 

while i was jumping between sides in the middle of WBS, and axis RDP was reduced to 70%; there wasn't much of an effect. it was noticeable sure, but attrition was not very decisive.

also, the time it takes to attire can bore people away

 

with reducing backline supply, the players and HC can push their gains. the TZ3 problem relied on no-supply situations. with any backline supply their pushes can be blunted; they don't use the supply as much as the rest of the TZ's.

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I just go out there and slay/cause butthurt regardless of the campaign situation

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This campaign rocks so far.

Few down things :

  • Tiers are too fast.
  • WAY too much armors supplies.

Good job CRS!

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The big thing to cut (imo) is tank supply.  I'm tired of chopping up the lists and hashing out recommendations if they aren't being utilized, so I won't do that here.  

 

The garrison inf supply seems okay.  I'd like to see a greater proportion of autos-to-rifles as the Tiers progress though.  I think 135 Rifles to 30 SMGs is a good ratio... for T0.  But by the time the Americans come in, that number of SMGs should be at least 50.  I know that's already done on some level, but I think a more gradual shift across the tiers would be better.   

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16 hours ago, pbveteran said:

@Kilemall

can you post your NAO proposal, on the free section of the forum? 

I dunno man, I like having a few things in the forums that people need to pony up to see.  I'm already kinda pissed that a lot of the discussion has moved out here, partially due to my 'talk frankly inside the family' preference that isn't necessarily good in open forum, partially because we paying subscribers fund the game and all the critics that don't pay get the benefit of interaction with the devs for free.

 

But in rough terms, it's basically 1 NAO (or New AO) per side, target town and all defender towns linking to it, AND all the attacker towns linking too, become capturable.  Towns can be capped back and forth for hours, NAO doesn't come down until either all the towns are captured by one side or the other, all the attackers' towns are taken cutting off the NAO, or the HC for that side pulls it.  NAO can't be pulled for a long time, 1-2  hours minimum.

 

Anticipated benefits include steady active fights being found everywhere in both NAOs, ninja caps can occur but aren't 'stealing' because the enemy can ninja back until the NAO is done, meaningful para attacks become a thing, a lot of incentive to win the fight with driven supply and fresh captures, less stress for the HC to be flipping AOs, squads can jump in and find action but it's still not anywhere they like or more AOs then underpop, big number of towns at stake but it's not this 1 town deep shallow thing nor is it cutoff, and a regional feel to battles we only really saw with Doc's 'Bloody Battles' experiment.

Edited by Kilemall
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16 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Heavens that never occurred to me!  Golly gee willikers Mr. Silec thanks!

 

Point being, window sniping can be a very effective supply drainer, most of us scream like bloody murder at those guys, but at the same time we call for attrition/attrition/attrition, mixed message especially to new guys and those casual players left that might be persuaded to do some depot control.

Ok smart arse maybe you can just get to the point next time and no i dont agree with you on it because attrition is less the objective then boots in the cps/abs....with pop levels ingame being lower attrition is not the option it once was especially with the amount of armor spawning at DO’s and the lack of attacking armor surviving long enough to get into position to attrit...i would love to drive armor up from the fbs in force BUT i know for a fact that once our squad on comms leave to roll armor all our hard earned caps will be taken back before we even get halfway back to support....so yea window sniping is not remotely an effective tactic in a high pop fight

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It seems that you have forgot the old way it used to be back when we had units in every town. You don't remember the tactics that were used to roll towns. A lot of old axis vets seem to remember but most have for gotten how to roll the map with the current set up we have. The only thing that really keeps the map being rolled one way or the other is the stupid cap timers. A good example was the pville battle. The first wave of fms we set up was from a town that didn't even link to pville and we used that supply to attack with you were already at a supply disadvantage in pville. While you all burned up the allied supply while defending it with supply from linking towns Ie Beaumont and Chimay once your pville garrison supply was gone. We still had plenty of supply because we attacked pville from a town that didn't even link to pville. Made it east to take chimay prob could have taken Beaumont as well and not have run out of supply. Tatics have changed you either adapt or lose simple as that.

Edited by sgthenning

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10 hours ago, matamor said:

This campaign rocks so far.

Few down things :

  • Tiers are too fast.
  • WAY too much armors supplies.

Good job CRS!

Tier timing is hard to judge. 

If every campaign lasted approx xx days, tiers could be optimally set at xx/# of tiers days.  However since campaigns can be anywhere between 3-190 days(or longer in theory) finding the sweet spot for tear introduction, but not at to fast of a pace is a bit challenging.

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14 minutes ago, sgthenning said:

It seems that you have forgot the old way it used to be back when we had units in every town. You don't remember the tactics that were used to roll towns. A lot of old axis vets seem to remember but most have for gotten how to roll the map with the current set up we have. The only thing that really keeps the map being rolled one way or the other is the stupid cap timers. A good example was the pville battle. The first wave of fms we set up was from a town that didn't even link to pville and we used that supply to attack with you were already at a supply disadvantage in pville. While you all burned up the allied supply while defending it with supply from linking towns Ie Beaumont and Chimay once your pville garrison supply was gone. We still had plenty of supply because we attacked pville from a town that didn't even link to pville. Made it east to take chimay prob could have taken Beaumont as well and not have run out of supply. Tatics have changed you either adapt or lose simple as that.

If you implying overstock then that certainly is a great way if we had numbers to get that done...

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3 hours ago, B2K said:

Tier timing is hard to judge. 

If every campaign lasted approx xx days, tiers could be optimally set at xx/# of tiers days.  However since campaigns can be anywhere between 3-190 days(or longer in theory) finding the sweet spot for tear introduction, but not at to fast of a pace is a bit challenging.

I am a stats observer and my opinion defines my reality. 

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4 hours ago, Jsilec said:

If you implying overstock then that certainly is a great way if we had numbers to get that done...

We had a method that was population neutral.

 

Now where did that go?

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4 hours ago, B2K said:

Tier timing is hard to judge. 

If every campaign lasted approx xx days, tiers could be optimally set at xx/# of tiers days.  However since campaigns can be anywhere between 3-190 days(or longer in theory) finding the sweet spot for tear introduction, but not at to fast of a pace is a bit challenging.

I would start every 5th campaign at some tier beyond Tier 0 depending on how long the previous 4 campaigns lasted.  

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2 hours ago, Capco said:

I would start playing more than once every 5th campaign at some tier beyond Tier 0 depending on how long the previous 4 campaigns lasted.  

Fixed. 

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I understand my point of view has little weight since I haven't been around in years, but I have rather enjoyed not seeing huge swathes of ground being moved every day. This is probably less appealing to people who have been playing consistently for a long time.

Edited by Randazzo
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27 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

I understand my point of view has little weight since I haven't been around in years, but I have rather enjoyed not seeing huge swathes of ground being moved every day. This is probably less appealing to people who have been playing consistently for a long time.

I haven't seen any of the complainers even state what an appropriate daily town capture rate is; they don't know what they want

even if town captures are fewer than before they're all legitimate battles now, not a few quick lopsided camps then 30 towns auto-surrendering

and town captures should be secondary anyway to player activity: all those big map movements caused player population to plummet as they had nothing to spawn

when the map does go east or west maybe we'll have real battles over some of the more interesting towns, the ones that up until 1.36 have been just softcapped, surrendered or rolled over without a fight for a decade

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Agreed. I have been quite enjoying the battles post 1.36. I gotta chuckle a bit at the people who are complaining that a winner has not yet been determined. Things are moving .... map starts 55% towns Allied, 45% Axis. It is now 45% to 55% in favor of Axis. You also have to factor in WBS .... increased numbers slowed the map a little as well. Fear not Dwalin .... keep grinding. You may have to come to grips with the fact that a successful session of WW2OL gaming is 4 or 5 towns aquired rather than a bakers dozen. But i kinda prefer that TBH .... i enjoy the battle aspect more than map moving. Maybe it is my brain deploying a self defense mechanism ... over a calendar year of out-right slaughter and losing campaigns ... i now keep telling myself it is all about the fight. If i thought different ... i woulda unsubbed with the rest of 'em.

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5 hours ago, david06 said:

I haven't seen any of the complainers even state what an appropriate daily town capture rate is; they don't know what they want

even if town captures are fewer than before they're all legitimate battles now, not a few quick lopsided camps then 30 towns auto-surrendering

and town captures should be secondary anyway to player activity: all those big map movements caused player population to plummet as they had nothing to spawn

when the map does go east or west maybe we'll have real battles over some of the more interesting towns, the ones that up until 1.36 have been just softcapped, surrendered or rolled over without a fight for a decade

I can define it for you.

The appropriate rate is not a hard number, it's psychological.

 

The 'right' number for capture rate is 1 town every 1-3 hours, able to be done no matter the pop, 24/7.  At least half the town captures must be full on contested.  This is to satisfy the 'team success' need for side/squad bonding and sense of ability to alter the outcome of the game.  Epic defenses can do the same, and on average there will likely be more defense success then offense even with tweaks for easier offense, but a good cap is inestimable for morale, 'want to come back tomorrow/play later tonight', and player investment in game and outcome.  This is the bedrock of why I am so on about pop neutrality, as the fix for TZ3 is that it is worth the few leaders' time to get on and be able to do something, not just be a punching bag for severely overpopped enemy forces.

Also, free uncontested wins, while necessary to do on the principle of 'gotta kill the baby seals before they become SEALs', is not satisfying other then seeing tears on the forum and knowing you are breaking a side.  Of course, this is a big element of the Cycle Of Suck, and eventually hurts subs as inevitably one side or another is on the losing end of 'no point playing', either for map win or always ubercamped/can't play.

 

Net capture rate, which is different from towns changing hands, has to be at a rate that decides campaigns for one side or the other.  That means either a broad attack with something like 4:1 capture rate advantage, or a 2:1 narrow front that threatens/takes factories for wins.  We also need net capture rate advantage from day to day, just to get out of the WWIONLINE rut and not fight over the same towns.  Boredom is ALWAYS the ultimate enemy of this game.

 

Before, we had population swings that would decide things, huge local supply advantages with overstock, morale hits through key captures or bombing/tech disadvantage or gritting teeth and just pounding on each other until one gives, or upset at the game/Rat decisions or internal strife.  The other side would get advantage and press it.

 

Then we had an additional one with ToEs, HCs outnumbering or being on when the enemy HC wasn't, superior play particularly squads in conjunction with HCs gaining a logistical upper hand and inflicting one of the above or in addition cuts that captured large swaths of towns.

 

Now with the combination of AB cap doesn't bounce all supply, counterattack nets new list hours ahead of the enemy, and PN elements, these captures are coming but a bit slower then the flips before, more importantly the net capture rate is not consistently for one side or another and not fast enough to get us into new towns to fight in very quickly.

 

Going back to a principle of overpop has advantage/too bad so sad is a short path to sub kills, but some of the crazy results we see with CT/SD is counterproductive for subs either for both overpop and underpop, hence my focus on this element.  But that's just one part of the larger puzzle as noted above.

 

What's needed is faster rapid 'departures from controlled flight', net capture rates that go faster then a couple towns per 4 hour leadership period.  ToEs should have created that, but too many brigades and too much in each of their lists perversely created a lot of WWIONLINE and allowed for a lot of destroyed toys but bad wasteful goober play and frustration with the aforementioned 1-3 hour capture rate often not possible with the JWBS.  In addition of course, the powerless cutoffs when no HC on to handle, and sometimes poorly trained or just incompetent ones on.

 

Ok, so we are now in 1.36 with the idea of preventing most of the above, possibly proximity AOs (with their own problems, not looking to hash that out here), largely working but grinding to a WWIONLINE halt.

 

Like I said, need a more unstable offense oriented game that IS a game, so no overpop giveaways but neither underpop frustrates overpop to quit, and the ability to reel off a net capture rate of something like 10 towns for a side in a 24 hour period and at least get into some new game situaitons and avoid the boredom of playing in the same towns over a week.

 

1/3 supply, 1 hour resupply, strat bombing double the effect.

 

That's my answer to your challenge at least David.

 

@OHM summary of my views about the present situation.

Edited by Kilemall
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30 minutes ago, choad said:

Agreed.

So to summarise Axis have 278 towns to cap to win - Allies have 324 towns to cap to win.

Good luck with that bros.

Edited by actonman

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