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Catfive

Should losing the AB shut down garrison spawning?

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I can't help feel that other than tanks and heavy atgs the AB does little to nothing nowadays and I find the whole business of recapturing an entire line from remaining garrison in a town where the AB is owned by the enemy to be a little much. I know others feel the same and not asking to shut down all spawning but seriously: it was hard enough with enemy spawnables form back line flags in the past, garrisons not needing an AB to access their entire inf list to me at least seems overkill. I'd be interested to hear perspectives of others even if you don't agree!

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I agree.

It could be that losing the garrison with the fall of the Armybase might be the twick that speeds up the campain just right, just enough...  And force a better defense organization, more focused.

 

S!

 

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7 minutes ago, shagher said:

I agree.

It could be that losing the garrison with the fall of the Armybase might be the twick that speeds up the campain just right, just enough...  And force a better defense organization, more focused.

 

S!

 

My recent experience in the game is very limited, but mounting an organized defense (what every front line town with a unit deployed would have 24/7 in RL) requires knowing about the attack ahead of time, particularly with low population. In the last few weeks, on a few occasions I responded to a call to defense within a minute or two, to find myself dead just going to check CPs, not ever getting a chance to move out of town. 

The entire capture paradigm is terrible. If I had come back for WBS, and alll the units were the same as they were from 2005, but capture mechanics were changed (zone of control, or something, anything but capture the flag), I'd likely think the game had made vast improvements.

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1 hour ago, catfive said:

I can't help feel that other than tanks and heavy atgs the AB does little to nothing nowadays and I find the whole business of recapturing an entire line from remaining garrison in a town where the AB is owned by the enemy to be a little much. I know others feel the same and not asking to shut down all spawning but seriously: it was hard enough with enemy spawnables form back line flags in the past, garrisons not needing an AB to access their entire inf list to me at least seems overkill. I'd be interested to hear perspectives of others even if you don't agree!

I agree with C5.  The capture of the AB has lost it's value.  It only stops the spawning of Tanks/AFVs.  We are generally holding off capping the AB until last.  Get the CPs first, camp the AB, rush the bunker.  The past reward of capping and holding one CP until the Bunker is hot (10 min) and rushing the bunker has been lost.

In the past, once one CP was captured the AB bunker defense became priority 1#.  The risk of losing all the supply was to high. The current supply mechanics regulate the AB bunker to just another CP. 

- Both sides are getting smart about running FMS's from nearby towns to augment the town's supply that is being attacked. 

- Both sides are getting smarter with their Armor spawning.  Holding off when camped and early in an attack.

- We are swapping key towns on a daily basis (Schilde/Antwerp sectors for example).

-- I like the idea of going back to the AB capture results in the town supply getting kicked.  It would require more defensive assets supporting defending the AB bunker early.  Make attacking a town more interesting.

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I disagree, I think the current change is one of the best in a long time. Why should capturing an AB cause the whole defense go poof? I personally like it how you now have to physically capture an entire town, just seems more realistic to me.

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I love it, you have to fight and EARN that whole town, and gives defenders time to roll up rescue FMS or armor columns like the old days.

 

But it does soak down more player time, so offense needs some goosing after PN gets fixed right.

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13 hours ago, catfive said:

I can't help feel that other than tanks and heavy atgs the AB does little to nothing nowadays and I find the whole business of recapturing an entire line from remaining garrison in a town where the AB is owned by the enemy to be a little much. I know others feel the same and not asking to shut down all spawning but seriously: it was hard enough with enemy spawnables form back line flags in the past, garrisons not needing an AB to access their entire inf list to me at least seems overkill. I'd be interested to hear perspectives of others even if you don't agree!

The depots don't give access to the whole infantry pool, they have their own much reduce spawn list, the largest part of which is plain riflemen.
The AB carries the lions share of the infantry.

6 hours ago, Kilemall said:

and gives defenders time to roll up rescue FMS or armor columns like the old days.

which of course gives the attackers who are so inclined a chance to go for some interdiction action too

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11 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

The depots don't give access to the whole infantry pool, they have their own much reduce spawn list, the largest part of which is plain riflemen.
The AB carries the lions share of the infantry.

which of course gives the attackers who are so inclined a chance to go for some interdiction action too

Yes it is limited in a sense of total overall supply is available slower but the point is some depots are also 'spawnables' from rear rank garrisons so it is not 1 reduced list it is 2 at least. Then there are spawnables due to divisions being in the area potentially bringing it up to 3 or even 4 depots of supply in 1 depot. that is what, 300 infantry in total or so? how many sappers, engineers, automatics, zooks and shreks? No interdiction involved, just close to an AB supply of infantry in the one depot and there may be others. You now have to capture every depot before considering an AB. Some of us made the decisions on what to cap based on the town, supply, boots, other priorities and more. It's just another aspect of the tactical game gone imho. Attack needs a small boost, vets from both sides in this very thread agree the same. It is now much harder to cap a town than before and if the enemy turn up in numbers, rare quite simply. I keep seeing people say it's now more about attrition, it isn't as there's a ton of unseen supply in every link depot and every depot not capped when you take the AB

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2 hours ago, catfive said:

Yes it is limited in a sense of total overall supply is available slower but the point is some depots are also 'spawnables' from rear rank garrisons so it is not 1 reduced list it is 2 at least. Then there are spawnables due to divisions being in the area potentially bringing it up to 3 or even 4 depots of supply in 1 depot. that is what, 300 infantry in total or so? how many sappers, engineers, automatics, zooks and shreks? No interdiction involved, just close to an AB supply of infantry in the one depot and there may be others. You now have to capture every depot before considering an AB. Some of us made the decisions on what to cap based on the town, supply, boots, other priorities and more. It's just another aspect of the tactical game gone imho. Attack needs a small boost, vets from both sides in this very thread agree the same. It is now much harder to cap a town than before and if the enemy turn up in numbers, rare quite simply. I keep seeing people say it's now more about attrition, it isn't as there's a ton of unseen supply in every link depot and every depot not capped when you take the AB

My understanding is that you are NOT drawing from other garrisons when the AB goes down, but still from that town's garrison.  Had a big battle at Chimay during the beta, and it was clear we didn't start drawing on other garrisons until we drove in FMS.

 

The ABs were capped by Allies, recapped by Axis where the full tank supply was still instantly available, squandered into a camp, lost again, then recovered with infantry counterattacks and better support for the remaining town attacks.

 

The brigades still work the same way as before far as I know.

Edited by Kilemall

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*** there's a ton of unseen supply in every link depot and every depot not capped when you take the AB

Correct.

Not saying good or bad, but it does make taking a town harder in some cases imo.

In some ways it is similar to TOE days, you must cap and hold link CPs to really have a chance to take the town, then AB (barring big op of course).

But, you also have to still kill off the existing garrison - which you did not have to do in TOE days as the flag bounced.

Edited by delems

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6 hours ago, catfive said:

Yes it is limited in a sense of total overall supply is available slower but the point is some depots are also 'spawnables' from rear rank garrisons so it is not 1 reduced list it is 2 at least. Then there are spawnables due to divisions being in the area potentially bringing it up to 3 or even 4 depots of supply in 1 depot. that is what, 300 infantry in total or so? how many sappers, engineers, automatics, zooks and shreks? No interdiction involved, just close to an AB supply of infantry in the one depot and there may be others. You now have to capture every depot before considering an AB. Some of us made the decisions on what to cap based on the town, supply, boots, other priorities and more. It's just another aspect of the tactical game gone imho. Attack needs a small boost, vets from both sides in this very thread agree the same. It is now much harder to cap a town than before and if the enemy turn up in numbers, rare quite simply. I keep seeing people say it's now more about attrition, it isn't as there's a ton of unseen supply in every link depot and every depot not capped when you take the AB

Not all vets, or even anything close to a consensus of vets, agree.  To say otherwise is not accurate.

 

S!

 

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It is useless to capture AB before capping all link cps nowadays

as the enemy just "rewarded" with new supply from all linked towns

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Shoulda made this a poll C5!  ;)

 

While I appreciate the fact that the AB isn't the holy grail of the town CPs, I also appreciate the old way of the AB being a holy grail lol.  There was a certain degree of tension.  

 

It wasn't just about which side kills more.  It's about which side plays to the tune of the mechanics that determine victory.  It used to be if you didn't play the right way, it didn't matter how many kills you had.  Killing wasn't the end-all be-all.  

 

But in a system where killing trumps all, the guys with the sub-one K/Ds are by definition not impacting the game as much as the guys with higher K/Ds. 

 

If you die more than you kill in a world where killing is the only thing that matters, in a world where it's either kill or be killed, then it's actually beneficial for your side if you don't play at all.  Otherwise you are taking away supply that could be put to better use by someone who kills others more than they get killed.  

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30 minutes ago, Capco said:

If you die more than you kill in a world where killing is the only thing that matters, in a world where it's either kill or be killed, then it's actually beneficial for your side if you don't play at all.  Otherwise you are taking away supply that could be put to better use by someone who kills others more than they get killed.  

I get what you are saying, but I disagree about somehow the alpha killers not determining outcome.  Rushing an alpha killer in a bunker and not being able to get it or an alpha killer kills everyone and takes the bunker still determines outcome.

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