delems

Infantry spawn building (SP).

115 posts in this topic

Have we ever thought have changing our current 3 story spawn building?

For example, just make it 1 story tall with maybe some sort of roof access from inside?

Use just the bottom floor (to keep trucks, ATGs, etc.); prolly have to make it a no fire zone though.

 

No more sniping from 3rd story, making it very hard for attacker to move in, no more jumping to CP, no more 3 story jumps - etc.

I think making the SP a single story building might improve gameplay by allowing attacker to setup on a CP better.

 

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Or, a defender absolutely camping the living heck out of a spawnable or warp depot.

 

This works both ways.

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If fire escapes are indeed on the way back then all I can say is have fun storming the castle! 

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Right, trying to remove the camping - instant spawn nature and make it more battle oriented.

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1 hour ago, delems said:

Have we ever thought have changing our current 3 story spawn building?

For example, just make it 1 story tall with maybe some sort of roof access from inside?

Use just the bottom floor (to keep trucks, ATGs, etc.); prolly have to make it a no fire zone though.

 

No more sniping from 3rd story, making it very hard for attacker to move in, no more jumping to CP, no more 3 story jumps - etc.

I think making the SP a single story building might improve gameplay by allowing attacker to setup on a CP better.

 

Why shouldn't a defender have an elevated position to snipe from? I think depot snipers are relatively useless-however, having the high ground defensively is obviously important.  Perhaps the flag should change colors when the attacker looks at the flag. 

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6 hours ago, delems said:

no more 3 story jumps

that, we just need time to see why infantry fall like they do.
3 story jump, preferably your ankles become one with your buttocks.

Other than that, I like when 30 people are sniping from the depot
because it usually winds up that none are actually guarding the capture point

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5 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

that, we just need time to see why infantry fall like they do.
3 story jump, preferably your ankles become one with your buttocks.

Other than that, I like when 30 people are sniping from the depot
because it usually winds up that none are actually guarding the capture point

And enemy infantry walk right in and capture the capture point then spawn in behind the useless window snipers and kill them all.

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14 hours ago, delems said:

Right, trying to remove the camping - instant spawn nature and make it more battle oriented.

Removng the camping by making it more campable?

4 hours ago, downtown said:

And enemy infantry walk right in and capture the capture point then spawn in behind the useless window snipers and kill them all.

There IS a certain attraction when you put it that way.....

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While jumping to a CP is pretty silly, is "harder for the attacker to move in" actually a problem? Responds within 5 min of a call to defense, and you're as likely to be shot from behind, inside your own town (or indeed your own AB) as not.

The problem is more than the spawn buildings, it's the entire capture dynamic.

Divide towns into groups of buildings (streets are included with some buildings, so tanks, etc can control some of the ground). Inf (owning that group go buildings) spawn into enterable buildings in the group at random (ie: a few spawn points in each such building) provided it is not occupied by the enemy (or perhaps as long as the count in that building is such that friendly>enemy). Capture then becomes holding some % (all?) of the buildings in that group.

A "sneaky" capture would then require controlling all the buildings in a local area of town (or whatever % is deemed enough for this to work with play testing). The destroyed states might need a tweak in some cases, but the attacker then has to simultaneously camp those spawn points, and watch out for counterattacks from neighboring areas (unless they have 2 people per building, in which case it becomes safe from the defenders spawning).

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I believe in some of the new towns, @Merlin51 had separated the spawn buildings from the capture buildings a little bit. 

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Never seen 30 window snipers but it be a glorious AAR for a Stug if he is the one to blow that CP.

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what's great is when the EFMS is in view of one of the depots

then the attackers bring in tanks, but they can't react fast enough so there are 3-4 tanks sitting near their FMS trying to "support the infantry", but they can't keep it from getting camped

then they park a matilda next to the back of the FMS because there's literally no other way to protect the spawning units

then a bunch of kills later someone cries in chat that depot snipers are worthless, and that what we really need to do to defend towns is to stare at gray walls

apparently the way to win isn't to take out auto weapons with cheap bolts, or get great kill ratios and drain them of their supply, or keep the attackers from making it to town, but to try and CQB the SMG lagwizards with this game's gimped bolt action rifles

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18 hours ago, david06 said:

then a bunch of kills later someone cries in chat that depot snipers are worthless, and that what we really need to do to defend towns is to stare at gray walls

What good are the Depot Snipers when someone walks right into the CP and captures the building they are supposedly getting all those kills defending?  I've seen people lay back and simply shoot into any window in a depot and lay depot snipers to waste.  Why can't you get out of the building and set up between the CP and the FMS and "Snipe" the enemy as they move toward the town?  Why not try to cover the entrance to the CP and get your kills that way, prevent them from even getting into the CP?   I'm all for attriting the enemy, but I'm not seeing Depot Snipers being effective and preventing the enemy from capturing a town, especially when I spawn in and see piles of bodies in front of windows.  Additionally one satchel blows the Spawn Building and kills all those depot snipers, so one rifleman with one satchels gets a "bunch of kills" with one satchel on all those depot snipers. 

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19 hours ago, SCKING said:

I believe in some of the new towns, @Merlin51 had separated the spawn buildings from the capture buildings a little bit. 

I posted about "Occupation through Ownership" a while ago, which the essential theory was that you would own and occupy portions of the town and you would be able to spawn in those buildings.  I feel this is a more realistic capture dynamic that, where you can spawn in a town would be based on the territory you control rather than a single building.  You would have to maintain that occupation to maintain the ability to spawn into that group or area of occupied terrain.  People didn't like it because of "TZ3 Steam Rolls" but mechanics can't solve TZ3 Steam Rolls, those individuals have made a choice that they don't want to face opposition so they continue to log-in on one side and throw the balance to that one side.  CRS either has to make the one side more attractive or the other side less attractive to attract a player base to the other side during that time zone or drive the other side away, or those individuals who have made the choice have to get tired of clubbing baby seals and decide to divide their forces and have some opposition during TZ3.

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1 hour ago, downtown said:

Why can't you get out of the building and set up between the CP and the FMS and "Snipe" the enemy as they move toward the town? 

Because by the time people see the message that the town is under threat, finish what they are doing elsewhere, find or make a mission in the town in question, then get into game (a couple minutes, lol), they town is already seeded with enemy infantry hiding in buildings, waiting for the radios to go live (whatever the current slang for that is ;) ).

I don't actually disagree with you (most of my WBS and subsequent play time has been spent capping, or guarding CPs (awful gameplay, and feels like work), but I can also see the point that someone spawns into a quiet town---that supposedly is in the period where the human players are setting up the defense that in RL would have already been in place---and they have every expectation they will be shot in the back of the head (even inside the "Army Base") by a lone attacker (because in WW2, lone soldiers would commonly infiltrate barracks and slaughter a % of the troops as they pulled their pants up).

The solution to this problem is not a new spawn building, it's a new capture and spawn paradigm.

 

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2 hours ago, downtown said:

I posted about "Occupation through Ownership" a while ago, which the essential theory was that you would own and occupy portions of the town and you would be able to spawn in those buildings.  I feel this is a more realistic capture dynamic that, where you can spawn in a town would be based on the territory you control rather than a single building.  You would have to maintain that occupation to maintain the ability to spawn into that group or area of occupied terrain.  People didn't like it because of "TZ3 Steam Rolls" but mechanics can't solve TZ3 Steam Rolls, those individuals have made a choice that they don't want to face opposition so they continue to log-in on one side and throw the balance to that one side.  CRS either has to make the one side more attractive or the other side less attractive to attract a player base to the other side during that time zone or drive the other side away, or those individuals who have made the choice have to get tired of clubbing baby seals and decide to divide their forces and have some opposition during TZ3.

What happens with the underpop that can't maintain a continuous presence all over town to defeat an attack?

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21 hours ago, david06 said:

what's great is when the EFMS is in view of one of the depots

then the attackers bring in tanks, but they can't react fast enough so there are 3-4 tanks sitting near their FMS trying to "support the infantry", but they can't keep it from getting camped

then they park a matilda next to the back of the FMS because there's literally no other way to protect the spawning units

then a bunch of kills later someone cries in chat that depot snipers are worthless, and that what we really need to do to defend towns is to stare at gray walls

apparently the way to win isn't to take out auto weapons with cheap bolts, or get great kill ratios and drain them of their supply, or keep the attackers from making it to town, but to try and CQB the SMG lagwizards with this game's gimped bolt action rifles

EWH in a zero sum game.

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27 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

What happens with the underpop that can't maintain a continuous presence all over town to defeat an attack?

The same thing that happens now when 3 people serially playing however many troops are supposedly emplaced in and around a town are forced to defend against a group of players attacking.

Respond to call to defense. There's 2-3 of us who just spawned in, I run into a building near CP or AB to try and look out in the direction of the enemy town to see if I can see armor, EMS, etc. There's ei upstairs in the building---literally the first building I went in that looked out from town. My lag from call to defense to getting there was the time to despawn elsewhere on the map, find the mission for defense, spawn in, and get upstairs. I shot the guy, and started checking buildings. I killed 2-3 ei before getting killed by the last one.

That's defense in this game. You spawn in, and there are more enemy already in your town than defenders, from the time the very first defender spawns in. Its awful game design.

Edited by tater

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20 minutes ago, tater said:

The same thing that happens now when 3 people serially playing however many troops are supposedly emplaced in and around a town are forced to defend against a group of players attacking.

Respond to call to defense. There's 2-3 of us who just spawned in, I run into a building near CP or AB to try and look out in the direction of the enemy town to see if I can see armor, EMS, etc. There's ei upstairs in the building---literally the first building I went in that looked out from town. My lag from call to defense to getting there was the time to despawn elsewhere on the map, find the mission for defense, spawn in, and get upstairs. I shot the guy, and started checking buildings. I killed 2-3 ei before getting killed by the last one.

That's defense in this game. You spawn in, and there are more enemy already in your town than defenders, from the time the very first defender spawns in. Its awful game design.

Well, this is why I am so big on PN, Pop Neutrality.

 

It would really really suck to artificially limit people's spawning such that there was absolute equal opportunity in terms of equipment movement and firepower.  Powerups are in the same category- this is after all a shooter/sim game, so such mechanisms are anathema.  Spawn Gate, limiting sides to equal numbers, is worse and is the fastest sub killer I could conceive of short of extended downtime.

 

That leaves us the capture objectives that are subject to limitations on varying themes of time.  So that's what is going on here, theoretically you could kill all those critters and clean up any leftover timer fast, then if possible jump over to an attack and cap those real fast.

Not realistic as to what happens once you are done to zeropop numbers due to transit time on the attack, but that's the idea.  And better then say having an SD or gate that says nope only 1 defender, you have 4 in and you can't spawn locally here.

Are you subbed or still F2P?

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1 hour ago, Kilemall said:

Well, this is why I am so big on PN, Pop Neutrality.

 

It would really really suck to artificially limit people's spawning such that there was absolute equal opportunity in terms of equipment movement and firepower.  Powerups are in the same category- this is after all a shooter/sim game, so such mechanisms are anathema.  Spawn Gate, limiting sides to equal numbers, is worse and is the fastest sub killer I could conceive of short of extended downtime.

 

That leaves us the capture objectives that are subject to limitations on varying themes of time.  So that's what is going on here, theoretically you could kill all those critters and clean up any leftover timer fast, then if possible jump over to an attack and cap those real fast.

Not realistic as to what happens once you are done to zeropop numbers due to transit time on the attack, but that's the idea.  And better then say having an SD or gate that says nope only 1 defender, you have 4 in and you can't spawn locally here.

Are you subbed or still F2P?

I'm F2P, but was seriously thinking of resubbing. I only returned part way into the latest WBS. The email I got listed a inf-only sub that I do not see yet, however (and I almost never play anything else). My big concern is, as much as I really like this game (after a 10 year hiatus), the things I most hated about the game are unchanged, which is basically everything that isn't "stuff" (ie: gameplay).

I have my own ideas about what I'd like, but it involves fixed position (in  foxhole) computer controlled units ("AI") that players spawn into instead of buildings. I suggested this years ago, many times, in multiple forms. Most was "pure" PvP, even if it results in dumb, deathmatch style play that everyone then complains about. You can have the feeling of realism (feel here, folks, not some hyper-realism), OR you can have pure PvP, pick one.

Edited by tater

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I would wonder how it would turn out if we removed depot spawning for everyone, but allowed ML to deploy a small LMS INSIDE any building =>Spawn where you want as long as you can keep it up. 

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6 hours ago, downtown said:

What good are the Depot Snipers when someone walks right into the CP and captures the building they are supposedly getting all those kills defending?  I've seen people lay back and simply shoot into any window in a depot and lay depot snipers to waste.  Why can't you get out of the building and set up between the CP and the FMS and "Snipe" the enemy as they move toward the town?  Why not try to cover the entrance to the CP and get your kills that way, prevent them from even getting into the CP?   I'm all for attriting the enemy, but I'm not seeing Depot Snipers being effective and preventing the enemy from capturing a town, especially when I spawn in and see piles of bodies in front of windows.  Additionally one satchel blows the Spawn Building and kills all those depot snipers, so one rifleman with one satchels gets a "bunch of kills" with one satchel on all those depot snipers. 

depot captures hardly mean anything, plenty of times depots are captured and quickly recaptured

this game's ridiculous emphasis on CQB combat though means that once a side runs out of auto infantry it's GG

so killing the valuable units > flipping an icon for two minutes

and I'm not sure when the last was that you tried sapping a spawn building or a depot, but it's like 8 charges now not 1

of course you don't see killing the enemy as effective, you're probably one of the people in chat barking at all the new players to "rush the depot", as if they are going to kill the veteran with a SMG, 2000+ hours in the game and a throttled connection with their bolt rifle

Edited by david06

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2 minutes ago, ZEBBEEE said:

I would wonder how it would turn out if we removed depot spawning for everyone, but allowed ML to deploy a small LMS INSIDE any building =>Spawn where you want as long as you can keep it up. 

What if such a spawn point had a piece of furniture to show it was there, and if an EI was in that building, they would not be allowed to use weapons (like in a capped depot) in that building, except the HE charges to used to blow it? 

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