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delems

Infantry spawn building (SP).

169 posts in this topic

40 minutes ago, ZEBBEEE said:

What is your theory? I am not sure I understand 

the current game offers well rounded options for any type of style you enjoy more.  If you like playing over open ground with a rifle..... go chase down MS's or attack/defend FB's.  If you like capping cps and smg close combat like I do.... awesome Ill see you in the CP

sorry zeebee i was responding to tater with that comment.... I should have quoted

 

Edited by kgarner

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Different players have different styles.... and enjoy different types of gameplay.  To assume that everyone likes the same style you do.... and that the game should be made to support your style is a fallacy IMO

Edited by kgarner
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The problem is entire game rests on CP captures ultimately, not fights in the country.

Hence, design so the CP captures also require some country type play.

 

If I have to defend CQB with a rifle against warpy SMG running 10m, I'll quit.

But if said SMG has to move 100m or 200m first, to get to me, I can maybe defend with rifle for a bit.

 

Edited by delems
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3 minutes ago, delems said:

The problem is entire game rests on CP captures ultimately, not fights in the country.

Hence, design so the CP captures also require some country type play.

 

If I have to defend CQB with a rifle against warpy SMG running 10m, I'll quit.

But if said SMG has to move 100m or 200m first, to get to me, I can maybe defend with rifle for a bit.

 

That isn't true at all........ you cant capture a cp if you dont have an fb

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Use your style to be as effective as you can be...... and accept that sometimes you are going to be put in a position where ur not going to be very effective because your enemy worked hard to create that

instead of.........

"if my style doesn't work how I want it to......... the game must be broken"

 

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and just on a side note delems......... You are very much an outlier type of player in this game.  The vast majority of players do not enjoy or play this game in the same way u play and enjoy it.  I think you need to reflect on that more when u post your opinions

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True, maybe my vision of what WWII combat was like is way off.

But I thought it was a lot more about infantry play, with rifles and SMGs doing the final assault and LMGs cutting.

Armor and mortars and air supporting.

Drop the 3 story SP so way less players will snipe, but rather get into the field or CP and fight.

Provide opportunities for each side to 'square off' and have firefights.

 

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4 minutes ago, delems said:

True, maybe my vision of what WWII combat was like is way off.

But I thought it was a lot more about infantry play, with rifles and SMGs doing the final assault and LMGs cutting.

Armor and mortars and air supporting.

Drop the 3 story SP so way less players will snipe, but rather get into the field or CP and fight.

Provide opportunities for each side to 'square off' and have firefights.

 

This isn't WWII

This is a video game with WWII weapons.....

Lets please not go off on historical nonsense....... im begging you

 

I hate the depo snipers..... but that is based on my own personal bias.  Because as a leet player I know they are only adding to my SD or padding AEF stats by sitting there in the windows.  Very little strategic value.......

But...... the spawn building isn't the reason that happens bro.... lets be real.  

A spawn building should 1) have many exits 2) be close enough to the capture point that the ability to spawn there is reasonably defendable.  I think the current depos do that pretty dang good.  

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All other (more popular) games offer the opposite experience: keeping your spawn in the back and fighting in no-mans’ Lands. That is why I would personally think of a positive outcome for more distant depots from the town, and pulling the flag out to make it easier to capture and hold for attackers, but force attrition battles to progress

 

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6 minutes ago, ZEBBEEE said:

All other (more popular) games offer the opposite experience: keeping your spawn in the back and fighting in no-mans’ Lands. That is why I would personally think of a positive outcome for more distant depots from the town, and pulling the flag out to make it easier to capture and hold for attackers, but force attrition battles to progress

 

All other games are condensed to the point that getting to your opponents' spawn points is impossible........ our game is superior because you can go anywhere...... and the only reason you are able to go anywhere is that the area is big enough to allow for it.

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if you had random spawn drops all over town........ that changed based on enemy presence ....... that is the only way u could eliminate the ability to cut (cutting is placing yourself between a known spawn point.... and a strategic point that must be held) .......... which is more what you guys are talking about here.

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*** That isn't true at all........ you cant capture a cp if you dont have an fb

Axis has no FB to Charleroi, yet seem to be capping just fine :)

 

*** Lets please not go off on historical nonsense....

Didn't mean for it to go that way, just meant I think it would be more fun if players could actually have sustained firefights.

Maneuver, supporting fire, etc.

Not spawn, run 15m, die in bldg.

 

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Any thought into this?
 

How easy would it be to replace our 3 story look out towers for spawning - to just a 1 story bldg ?

Would make it much better for attackers to try and use tactics while assaulting a CP, and incentive 'depot' snipers to move out of SP.

 

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29 minutes ago, delems said:

Any thought into this?
 

How easy would it be to replace our 3 story look out towers for spawning - to just a 1 story bldg ?

Would make it much better for attackers to try and use tactics while assaulting a CP, and incentive 'depot' snipers to move out of SP.

 

I am indifferent either way, but i think there are more important things to be done.

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Of course what would be nice is to remove the CP buildings and replace them with bunkers outside of town.  Capture the bunkers defending the town, instead of buildings in the town. Maybe leave the bunker and city in town as final objectives.

Spawn buildings would stay in town, so defenders would have to walk to the new cp bunkers to defend them, not jump on them or snipe from windows.

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For in town it would be better if the CP and Spawn were in fact just regular buildings (slightly altered) that already exist.

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*** but i think there are more important things to be done

My immediate visceral reaction to this was to vehemently disagree.

However, I paused and pondered.  How come?

Was it cause I wanted it to be so?   Or because the data leads to that conclusion.

So, I went to bed thinking about it.

This AM at breakfast I realized how come I disagree with that view.

 

Here is why, where does all the key combat take place?

Sure, some is in the field, and some is in the CP itself, but the most key area of combat is fighting to the CP; it is the assault of the CP. (and then between CPs)

Sure, there is MS skirmish in the field, and of course CQB in the CP; but the best of fighting is the assaulting of the CP.

Setting up cutting fire, maneuver etc.

And of course, once the attackers gets one CP, each side assaults CPs  which results in meeting engagements to battle over.  (which is why so many towns are badly designed for combat, every CP is within 50m of another CP - there is no chance for a meeting engagement or battle between CPs - nothing but run and gun, jump from 3rd story)

 

And this is why having 3 story lookout towers RIGHT at every CP is so bad.

It turns this great skirmish area, into a sit and snipe area.... that isn't combat... that is sniping.

 

Yesterday at Heinsberg was a great 2 hour battle, look at the layout of that town.  Superb.

Spread out CPs (all 200m or so from each other) and terrain between to battle over.

But, it still doesn't negate the fact that the defender can just sit and snipe from 3 story towers (not to mention recon for 1000m or so in many cases).

 

The 3 story lookout snipe / recon towers at EVERY CP, ruins this chance for meaningful battles imo.

If that bldg was 1 story, players would have to get out and defend from the area around the CP, not to mention recon.

I can't tell you how many times, I have sat on top of an SP, seen a truck coming in at 800m away (never would have seen if just up 1 level or on ground), then sniped the ei ib from the 2nd floor.

That does not make for a good battle experience. (just yesterday was killed by attacker at Oberhausen near CP, I respawned, went to top floor of SP, saw him and sniped him -- just like that a meaningful combat session was over, with a 1 story SP, I would have had to go out and hunt the ei)

 

If we want players involved in recon, setting up defense (zones etc) and actively defending, then the removal of the 3 story snipe/recon blds is very important imo; in fact extremely important.

We need to ensure the game provides easy ways for groups of players to have sustained firefights.  Not for solo players to recon and snipe a battle dead before it ever begins.

 

Edited by delems

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Well, this SP jumping and 50m CP run and gun is simply getting old.

Starting to not have fun anymore.

Town layouts with CPs 75m from each other, does nothing to provide good fights.  Is run and gun 20m and die.

Having 3 story look out towers to recon, shoot and jump from does no help either.

Vliss and Tern CPs in Graven are perfect example, spawn down... what kinda of fight ensues....?
 

Edited by delems

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And allies W side Krab assault stopped because of 3rd story SP look out tower :(

Well executed attack though.

 

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