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sydspain

I don't understand

33 posts in this topic

Why is people afraid of capping or defending spawns? Some people say it's because of lag, but 4-5 years ago lag was much worse, everybody was shotting through walls and people attacked and defended much better than nowadays.

I remember when I started playing this game, I called for help on chat because we had eis on south cp and 3-4 players came to help me clear the cp...now in 2019 I call for help because we have eis on south cp and we have 3-4 players on south buildings near scp sniping and they stay there until spawn is lost.

And attacking is even worse than defending, we have a game with 1000 players and only 10 on each side aren't afraid of getting inside a spawn cp...it's really frustrating trying to cap a spawn alone over and over while you watch your teamates on chruch tower or hidden on some building with smg waiting to make 1 or 2 kills. 

 

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Good points. I witnessed it a lot over here as well and I have been very vocal as well on channels about it. People chase EFMS out of town when enemies are spawning inside town. 

It's like cleaning your bedroom while there are pigs living in your kitchen. 

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That has been the case from Day 1; it's just a case of numbers. Before let's say 10% aggressively capped and defended, there are your guys. Now the ratios are the same but the absolute numbers are lower.

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this is a MMO that sells itself on scale, then you wonder why players don't want to sit inside a gray box for hours on end? it is objectively the worst aspect of the game

this game's cap timers make it that you will spend your entire play session staring at gray walls if you want to focus on getting caps

if you are bolt you are not defending any depot from the inside

if you are a bolt you are not capturing any defended depot, just capping it if no one is there

since garrisons are here "spawn" depots have lost weight,  also the average town can have 3-4 spawns now you're not getting spawn guards for each one

we also have much more local supply now, people seem to think that flipping a depot is a victory no matter how much supplies they burn in getting it; it's better to kill a few units

and there has been a massive brain drain of players, fewer players online but also lower levels of experience, 

oh and there is almost no cheat enforcement, why am I going to play against the same dozen players that run rampant around the depots?

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Make the church tower the capture object.

The way I play and enjoy the game is by avoiding the bloody flag buildings. Don't care about victory, its a game, the object is to have fun. I will cap if asked or its urgent, but otherwise, fugget about it.

 

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I largely agree with @david06. That said, in my F2P experience post WBS, I routinely defend and recap held CPs with a bolt action rifle. It's far easier with a SMG, and I might waste a few bolt action rifles to do it, but it's possible. If there are multi-ei... yeah, that's non-trivial.

As much as I find myself doing this---to help my side---it is as david06 said, literally the very worst gameplay in the game, and guarding is incredibly boring. If only modern engineering would develop some sort of device to perform mind-numbing, repetitive, digital tasks like staring at gray pixels and shooting anything that moves!

It would be really interesting to see an event with friendly fire turned on.

Covering fire would be vastly different. HE use, ditto. You'd HAVE to stay sort of "on sides" or you'd be just as likely to die from friends as enemies.

 

Edited by tater

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Because capping and defending is objectively not fun. CQB in this game is absolute garbage with poor and unrealistic weapon handling, warping players, getting killed by someone you can't see because on your screen he is behind a corner, getting stuck in buildings and terrain etc.

Both the capture system and the infantry gameplay need a huge revamp.

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6 minutes ago, aop said:

Because capping and defending is objectively not fun. CQB in this game is absolute garbage with poor and unrealistic weapon handling, warping players, getting killed by someone you can't see because on your screen he is behind a corner, getting stuck in buildings and terrain etc.

Both the capture system and the infantry gameplay need a huge revamp.

Nailed it. 

I'll guard and try to recap until it becomes too frustrating. Then I move to do something else or I'll log off in disgust. 

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14 minutes ago, aop said:

Because capping and defending is objectively not fun. CQB in this game is absolute garbage with poor and unrealistic weapon handling, warping players, getting killed by someone you can't see because on your screen he is behind a corner, getting stuck in buildings and terrain etc.

Both the capture system and the infantry gameplay need a huge revamp.

The sad thing is that this has been true since forever, and nothing has ever been done to address it.

 

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22 minutes ago, tater said:

It would be really interesting to see an event with friendly fire turned on.

Heh, how about HC can kill their own side?

 

Get out of that spawn.

No dude I play like I wanna.

Get out of the spawn or I will shoot you.

No wai duuuuuuuude.

Blam.

 

I'm not seriously advocating this in any way, but it sure is dreamy to think about sometimes.

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25 minutes ago, blggles said:

Make the church tower the capture object.

The way I play and enjoy the game is by avoiding the bloody flag buildings. Don't care about victory, its a game, the object is to have fun. I will cap if asked or its urgent, but otherwise, fugget about it.

 

the three-story factory building, the one with the smoke coming out of it and the crates at the bottom would make a great capture point

put the radio at the top, allow defenders to chuck grenades down the center on on to the bottom or cover from the stairs, give the rifle grenadiers something to do and maybe even HE tanks something to do

it's one of the only buildings in the game where you can deploy a LMG and look outside a window without having to deploy on the actual window and thus be bait for any halfway-decent rifleman

there is also this huge building that's also modeled, but never sees any use

it has a lower area, staircases and a top area that could make for much better fights

I don't think that anyone at CRS even knows how bad of a FPS experience the average depot fight is though, lots of talk about lag and none about level design

they keep creating new assets and new towns when there are plenty of existing ones that sit unused

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I think all the CPs are too close in many cases too.  Makes it all close in fighting.

All CPs should be at least 100m if not 200m from any other facility/CP.

Then fighting has to occur between CPs; not just in them.  Gives the rifleman a time to shine.  And use squad assault tactics.

But can't just be open ground between them, need some woods, walls, boxes, bldgs, etc.  So players can maneuver to next CP and fight between them.

 

Make the 3 story spawn point only 1 story, and be at least 10 to 50m away from the CP too, then defender can't just jump on.

 

Edited by delems
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Some of the points mentioned in this topic have already received attention from the leadership team. @XOOM

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Isn't it because now it's more attrition based the more one kills the better?

Before 1.36 the game was CP capture driven then the AB , now we have everything * be it CP or AB * is game but the biggest reward is killing a lot .

My opinion more players rather do the killing fighting thing , then actually capture buildings, might explain the slow progession of the map too.

CRS should have introduced the attrition aspect of the game but kept the importance of capping CPs and then the AB like we had it pre 1.36 ? 

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10 hours ago, tater said:

The sad thing is that this has been true since forever, and nothing has ever been done to address it.

Fundamentally an untrue statement. We have invested lots of development time to help address and reduce these problems. When we have one game server where a world-wide audience connects to, there are prone to be some issues. We don't go to say we have it all solved, there's more to be done. But saying we have never done anything to address it isn't accurate.

Of course, this is important to us. I'd like to say if you want more development attention on a variety of topics, please Hero up and help the subscription drive proceed. Otherwise I will have a pretty hard time to get dedicated effort. That's not a cop out of taking ownership of it, that's just fact. Our resources are tapped and there's a Roadmap we're trying to deliver on.

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I think we all understand the roadmap XOOM but there is nothing in it concerning the fundamental capping/spawning paradigm. Yes the UI is important, I would love real in-game comms (mostly because my brother plays a role in FAC in the Australian army), but I would give those up on a minute if we could address proximity aos and the capture mechanisms.

@XOOMAny news on land based subs?

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11 hours ago, XOOM said:

Fundamentally an untrue statement. We have invested lots of development time to help address and reduce these problems. When we have one game server where a world-wide audience connects to, there are prone to be some issues. We don't go to say we have it all solved, there's more to be done. But saying we have never done anything to address it isn't accurate.

Of course, this is important to us. I'd like to say if you want more development attention on a variety of topics, please Hero up and help the subscription drive proceed. Otherwise I will have a pretty hard time to get dedicated effort. That's not a cop out of taking ownership of it, that's just fact. Our resources are tapped and there's a Roadmap we're trying to deliver on.

I only know what I see now, and how it compares to the game and changes I saw between pre-release and 2008/9?

This is not a slam on new devs at all, you have a tough job, and the paradigm has been in place for so long. I started posting entirely because I had forgotten how much I liked this game---but it needs some fundamental changes IMHO (even within the current framework, I try to assume minimal changes).

When I talk about nothing changing in gameplay mechanics, I mean the capture the flag paradigm (still in game as far as I can tell, the change from humping radios was an improvement, but no fundamental changes since then that matter that I can see, timer settings is not a fundamental change). If capture involves being in the CP, or bunkers at all, then nothing has changed. I looked at the roadmap, and it seemed to list a load of cool equipment, but if that equipment is to be in game so that I can hold a new thing while staring at the wall in the CP closet, or at the bunker doorway... doesn't matter.

The new terrain is great (based on reading the roadmap), and while that could indeed help gameplay, the city blocks are really just terrain you run through OTW to the only place where fighting actually matters---unless that new block is next to an AB, in which case it is places ei will use to camp the AB.

The bones are already in the game. I think everybody has had one of those spawn-ins where you are with a groups of infantry, and some armor, etc, and it feels like a battle. The trick is to recognize the pattern in what makes those situations happen, and change gameplay mechanics (this is almost entirely related to the capture mechanics, and capture point geography) to make this situation more likely. More "stuff' is not a mechanics change, nor is the UI, frankly.

UI changes that could actually change gameplay? Yeah, the in game map functionality could be nerfed. Yes, nerfed. Marking contacts is a huge force multiplier, and negates realistic fog of war. Things like skull icons, including the ones floating in the air need to be a function of range to the player, IMO, if they stay at all. You can't stop comms from being unrealistic (discord, etc), but you can control the GPS maps that make what should be powerful units overly vulnerable. I was pretty vociferous against the map stuff when it was first beta tested, and my opinion has not changed at all. If maps are to be a thing, I'd allow players to mark their OWN map as they see fit, and they could then share it literally by proximity only. Ie: I mark a map, then I run back to ML, and if I stand next to him (like ammo reloads from trucks) he gets my map marks. Add a new inf type? How about radioman. Radioman can then share map marks with other units with radios (only). So aircraft only get marks if the troops have an observer with a radio. Sharing with regular inf? They run to radioman and update their maps. People can still chat "ei NW town 200m", no one can stop that, but it improves fog of war a little, allowing tactics to matter a little more (at the small unit level), and perhaps allowing that tank, or ATG to not be instantly attacked from the air moments after a single troop spots it, or for it to be able to attack an ET that could not possibly see it until it was too late.

I've said that I was thinking of subbing with the all inf account. I would have already subbed the basic account except the only new inf thing I actually wanted to try was the Garand (since I play pretty much all infantry), and that's not part of that account type. If the roadmap showed fundamental gameplay changes, I'd be far more likely to want to support dev at some higher level. Getting killed by Italians in the same CP is not the change I was looking for. ;) 

 

Edited by tater

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On 5/28/2019 at 0:54 AM, dropbear said:

I think we all understand the roadmap XOOM but there is nothing in it concerning the fundamental capping/spawning paradigm. Yes the UI is important, I would love real in-game comms (mostly because my brother plays a role in FAC in the Australian army), but I would give those up on a minute if we could address proximity aos and the capture mechanisms.

@XOOMAny news on land based subs?

Career Based Subscriptions are approaching completion, trying to get the user experience / account management site flow ironed out at this time.

We're doing what we can gentleman. We truly appreciate your support by maintaining an active paid subscription to make sure WWII Online has a long future, and your moral support in believing in the project and our wonderful mostly volunteer team at Cornered Rat Software.

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On 5/27/2019 at 1:58 PM, delems said:

I think all the CPs are too close in many cases too.  Makes it all close in fighting.

All CPs should be at least 100m if not 200m from any other facility/CP.

Then fighting has to occur between CPs; not just in them.  Gives the rifleman a time to shine.  And use squad assault tactics.

But can't just be open ground between them, need some woods, walls, boxes, bldgs, etc.  So players can maneuver to next CP and fight between them.

 

Make the 3 story spawn point only 1 story, and be at least 10 to 50m away from the CP too, then defender can't just jump on.

 

@ZEBBEEE as you listen, there are other viewpoints to consider.

In response to delems, 100m-200m away from a depot? First it's the timers to make it easier. Then, we are going to separate the cps from the depots and make it even more easy to cap? 100/200m? No way. 1 tank can cut a cp with their eyes closed. 

There are already enough towns that have cps 100/200m away from the depot. CQB makes it challenging. You actually have to be good instead of sniping or cutting in a tank from another 200/300m away. When campaigns begin, most of the towns have cps and depots relatively close. The further you move East or West on the map, and usually near the last 1/2 of a campaign, the cps are definitely already spread out from the depots. You get one, maybe two chances to kill ei capping. By the time you spawn back in and have to walk 1/200 meters, cp is capped. 

Couldn't disagree more with moving the cps hundreds of meters away and changing cap timers so drastically. Want a cp? Earn it. 

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You miss my point xohor. (CP-capture point, SP-spawn point)

CP to SP distance should just move a bit - 10m ?  20m?   And the SP building needs to be changed from 3 story to 1 story.

And, if SP goes to 1 story, might not have to move the SP at all.

 

The distance BETWEEN CPs should be further imo, gives the rifle more of a chance to fight.  And gives infantry a chance to use squad tactics from one CP to the next.

No CP should be near another facility like 100-200m or so (AB, CITY, etc.).

 

I am NOT suggesting the distance from SP to CP be 100 - 200m.

 

Edited by delems

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changing every cp and sp would be an impossible task by our small team.. I forget what the last count was, but it would take a very long time to redesign every town. 

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I know, if SP goes to 1 story, could prolly leave them as is.

Then, it would just be a matter of picking up the SP / CP and moving them 100m away from where they are, further from town.

Course, need some terrain too in there.

And, it could also really help all the new town design; be sure CPs have some distance between them and terrain.

 

Finally, would look at key towns that are always fought over first to test, Schilde, Ciney, etc.

I've just noticed some towns lend themselves to far better fights, that last longer, more involved, etc.

And it seems, it's the one with spread out CPs.  They don't have to be way further, just not on top of each other like many of our current town designs are.

 

Edited by delems

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Change the layout of the depot cp.  It's design makes it frustrating to defend.

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1 hour ago, SCKING said:

changing every cp and sp would be an impossible task by our small team.. I forget what the last count was, but it would take a very long time to redesign every town. 

Does the capture mechanic require being in the building or could it simply be a radius, inside or out?

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17 hours ago, xohorvath said:

@ZEBBEEE as you listen, there are other viewpoints to consider.

In response to delems, 100m-200m away from a depot? First it's the timers to make it easier. Then, we are going to separate the cps from the depots and make it even more easy to cap? 100/200m? No way. 1 tank can cut a cp with their eyes closed. 

There are already enough towns that have cps 100/200m away from the depot. CQB makes it challenging. You actually have to be good instead of sniping or cutting in a tank from another 200/300m away. When campaigns begin, most of the towns have cps and depots relatively close. The further you move East or West on the map, and usually near the last 1/2 of a campaign, the cps are definitely already spread out from the depots. You get one, maybe two chances to kill ei capping. By the time you spawn back in and have to walk 1/200 meters, cp is capped. 

Couldn't disagree more with moving the cps hundreds of meters away and changing cap timers so drastically. Want a cp? Earn it. 

Having our flag building 10m away of the spawn is wrong for sure, as it create both camping situations or flood-the-flag defense tactics. But as I understood it, he was speaking of putting depots and their flags further outside the town. An in-game poll may soon audit this idea.

Also, We reduced cap timers by 50% for squad-based operations, so that the heavily underpop  could cap a flag in 2min with 1 guy, while overpop would require 4 guys to get that same timer (80s x 150% = 2 min). This should improve battle density, thus making it easier to attack/defend even when being outnumbered at depots/flags.

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