• Announcements

    • PITTPETE

      NEW Career Subscriptions now available   06/08/2019

      The all new highly anticipated / requested "Career Based Subscriptions" are available through www.WWIIONLINE.com/account only, starting at $9.99! There are three new subscriptions being added; 1) All Infantry at $9.99/mo, 2) All Air Forces at $9.99/mo, 3) All Ground Forces (Army Persona) at $12.99/mo. Continue reading to learn more and get back into the fight now! View the full article on battlegroundeurope.com
krazydog

Why are the Rats adding SMGs to HC FRUs?

72 posts in this topic

I just read the new maintenance patch notes.  What is the logic behind this change?

I think I am going to start arguing for complete removal of these walkable HC FRUs if they are made too powerful.

I have never liked walkable HC FRUs since they have been added.  HC guys use these things to teleport troops silently across rivers. They also use them to solo mole attack on towns for hours creating totally boring gameplay trying to defend these towns.  And now the Rats want to give them SMG too so they will be used even more?

Please don’t do it.  Its another bad idea. I think most players of this game want to keep gameplay more realistic (with proper zones of control) and no silent teleporting of spawn points

Edited by krazydog
7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fully Agree- no TRUCK = no MSP.. 

Superlight MS with rifles only... meh OK .. but not great ..  SMGs? REALLY?

Now allowing HC to move FB for example, or make walkable FMS with min distance of 1.5KM out of town that can spawn ATG/ INF/ AA to support back of ZoC .. that would be nice. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, krazydog said:

I just read the new maintenance patch notes.  What is the logic behind this change?

I think I am going to start arguing for complete removal of these walkable HC FRUs if they are made too powerful.

I have never liked walkable HC FRUs since they have been added.  HC guys use these things to teleport troops silently across rivers. They also use them to solo mole attack on towns for hours creating totally boring gameplay trying to defend these towns.  And now the Rats want to give them SMG too so they will be used even more?

Please don’t do it.  Its another bad idea. I think most players of this game want to keep gameplay more realistic (with proper zones of control) and no silent teleporting of spawn points

We did this already and it was a failure and removed, yet this team keeps bringing back these proven failures. 

Unreal. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is really not the same as having any ML deploying a full FRU by feet. A little gift for our HC leaders, supported by a large majority of playing players (poll)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, ZEBBEEE said:

This is really not the same as having any ML deploying a full FRY by feet. A little gift for our HC leaders, supported by a large majority of playing players (poll)

It's basically the same thing. 

It ruins the ZoC concept, again. Remember that happened before with infantry placed FMS? 

It adds to horrible gameplay, by letting HC mole towns at will. 

You guys never learn. Seriously. Even when it's been tried before and have evidence. 

The first 18 months of the Xoom regime gave me hope, and since then, it's been zero steps forward and three steps back. 

Horrendous "historical tiers" where one side gets new equipment first. That was tried, remember? Way back when we had the 3h with no allied counterpart. Disaster. We had the tiger vs the m10. Disaster. Now you guys are doing it again. 

Infantry placed FMS. Disaster. Now you're putting them back in, watered down, but still putting them back in. Disaster. 

You think that Xoom saying that CRS has it's lowest monthly income ever recorded is a fluke? It's a direct result of things like this. 

 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't even know there were walkable FRUs anymore.  Get rid of them i say, and give HC something that isn't so gamey, like cool unifoems or a capital leteer on their on screen name.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don’t believe that the hundreds of new players daily joining the game are disturbed by these.

They must however be disappointed by something the current spawning system doesn’t manage to answer. We need to find out. If an in-game poll suggests that a feature -that was completely removed- would be very much welcomed back, we should at least try out something in between.

Furthermore no one used the HCLMS so far... 

I personally would prefer our hard FMS spawning heavy guns and trucks but deployed at minimum 1km, as moveable LMS by feet but limited to jumps of maximum 100m, so that we maximize team cohesion. But on another part we have much more complaints about the lack of mobile spawns and camping situations, as being a « walking simulator ». The HC-placed FMS brings back a little bit of variety/complementarity to balance the current design which is still not perfect.

The agile development approach of CRS2 indeed has had some complicated temporarily outcomes, but if we don’t force the system to its limits, how could we understand its actual behaviour? We are still at the very beginning of major upgrades capabilities, let’s not be pessimistic about temporarily quick fixes.

Keep giving feedbacks from your actual ingame experience, however. That is very much appreciated!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Walking simulator seems to be heard a lot on steam reviews.

 

Perhaps compulsory  training should involve how to start a mission , how to drive a truck , and then how to set up an fms....

I think most steamies believe they get in a truck drive somewhere then get out to be the driver now a rifleman. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ZEBBEEE said:

This is really not the same as having any ML deploying a full FRU by feet. A little gift for our HC leaders, supported by a large majority of playing players (poll)

I bet if you make a poll to ask if Sappers should be included in the HC FRU you will /might get an overwhelming YES there too. Who wouldn't like to blow up tanks that themselves thought real save cause of a blown bridge and their side under control , just to have some HC get driven half way then walk the rest and set . 

It's still a terrible idea , and like I predicted it's won't stop by Rifle only how it was promised by Xoom, now we are up to Rifle and SMG what's next?

Don't tell me we won't, I heard that when I said no to RIFLE only FRU and was assured it is only a RIFLE only FRU . 

Sure looks to me it's not a RIFLE FRU anymore.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, dre21 said:

I bet if you make a poll to ask if Sappers should be included in the HC FRU you will /might get an overwhelming YES there too. Who wouldn't like to blow up tanks that themselves thought real save cause of a blown bridge and their side under control , just to have some HC get driven half way then walk the rest and set . 

It's still a terrible idea , and like I predicted it's won't stop by Rifle only how it was promised by Xoom, now we are up to Rifle and SMG what's next?

Don't tell me we won't, I heard that when I said no to RIFLE only FRU and was assured it is only a RIFLE only FRU . 

Sure looks to me it's not a RIFLE FRU anymore.

Pretty much nailed it. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horrendous idea to add SMGs to the HC FMS.  I'm not even a fan of the HC FMS to begin with (yes, I use it because its a tool we can use), but to just add more to it?  Nah.....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

make the  walkable  ms  farther  from town  then maybe i like it. ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ZEBBEEE said:

I personally don’t believe that the hundreds of new players daily joining the game are disturbed by these.

They must however be disappointed by something the current spawning system doesn’t manage to answer. We need to find out. If an in-game poll suggests that a feature -that was completely removed- would be very much welcomed back, we should at least try out something in between.

Furthermore no one used the HCLMS so far... 

I personally would prefer our hard FMS spawning heavy guns and trucks but deployed at minimum 1km, as moveable LMS by feet but limited to jumps of maximum 100m, so that we maximize team cohesion. But on another part we have much more complaints about the lack of mobile spawns and camping situations, as being a « walking simulator ». The HC-placed FMS brings back a little bit of variety/complementarity to balance the current design which is still not perfect.

The agile development approach of CRS2 indeed has had some complicated temporarily outcomes, but if we don’t force the system to its limits, how could we understand its actual behaviour? We are still at the very beginning of major upgrades capabilities, let’s not be pessimistic about temporarily quick fixes.

Keep giving feedbacks from your actual ingame experience, however. That is very much appreciated!

I did, during the Beta.  I along with a couple of other players moled the ever living heck out of North Antwerp, constantly shifting the LMS from one side of town to the other.  At some point as moles often do, it turned into the primary attack and nearly succeeded, just couldn't get people to guard (which shouldn't really be expected during a test event).  All this with just rifles.

During another attack I had an LMS up completely close to the AB of a town the Allies defended successfully, but it was offset from everything else and never got taken down.  But you can't get people to assault bunkers with rifles.

Another time I used it against FMS, first time I snuck up and laid on charge from 'the wrong direction' the FMS operators were surprised, second time they defended against me but never got to the LMS, the FMS busters from town were able to catch them in a pincer and help blow it.

 

 

Original FRU was THE most powerful unit ever to exist in the game, and I am counting nuclear StuG in that mix.  LMS with rifles is a cute thing.  LMS with SMGs is town capping attack breaking stuff.  LMS with either AT types like ATR or RPATs, or engineers, is crushing power.

Any expansion of the LMS has to be done VERY carefully.  It's awesome power at the moment is due to it's rarity and unexpected placement  with the absolute silent aspect, as religiously as both sides hunt spawns they won't last long once it's grasped that they are being used and the limited HC unit count means killing the HC really does end the LMS placement,   So it's not like the old FRU, but SMG definitely escalates it to potent weapon.

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In an environment of even pop stagnant offense i can agree with this as long as i dont see sappers/ats/atrs/fg42s start spawning off these....this will add to op onslaught with higher #’s of pb and hc seeing the rewards of this on either side...the hc frus are extremely easy to camp so this can also drain smg supply if the ml is asleep or not on comms which i have seen many times 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Walking FMS mission creep.. A bad concept gets worse...

Just get rid of it, stop the madness before it goes any further...

Perhaps give HC a "Command PPO" instead, a strong point that can be used to oversee the battle but nothing can spawn there... Make it defendable and camouflaged, other troops could set a standard FMS nearby to support it if needed..

One option would be. Perhaps just allow the HC officer to spawn a rifle at this PPO, that's it nothing else one HC rifle...

That is the only thing I would grudgingly support...

Cheers Monty

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jsilec said:

In an environment of even pop stagnant offense i can agree with this as long as i dont see sappers/ats/atrs/fg42s start spawning off these....this will add to op onslaught with higher #’s of pb and hc seeing the rewards of this on either side...the hc frus are extremely easy to camp so this can also drain smg supply if the ml is asleep or not on comms which i have seen many times 

This is the big issue.  If both sides were regularly capturing stuff back and forth outside of WBS I'd be more inclined to be a little wary about this change.  But the opposite is true.

 

Right now, the map moves because one side isn't as competent at the other, not because offense is in a good spot.  Even during WBS, a big reason for the back and forth capturing was because of the stupidly high success rate of Counter AOs and because there were more AOs than there were people to man them with a 2-AO minimum, allowing for a greater ease of truck-based FMS placement.  

 

If you come to attack an enemy town with a marching band and Goodyear blimp announcing your arrival, you're gonna get stomped by an active defender before the battle even starts.  If you come to a town quietly and undetected, you're gonna have a good chance of getting a battle going.  People need to start to accept that some degree of stealth is required to actually have a battle develop in and around a town.  

 

Also @dre21, this is as far as I want to see this FRU go.  The line should be drawn here.  I will never support AT infantry spawning from an infantry-placed FRU, ever.  

Edited by Capco
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure that right now, the map moves because one side has vastly more players than defenders. I popped on to check about an hour ago, and the join axis timer was over 14 minutes. No transparency on what that represents, but on Allied chat I see posts that "We're overpop! Push that attack!" when that timer is 14 seconds in our favor, vs 60X higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, major0noob said:

all the guys in favor of the inf-FRU have left, no harm in removing it

I could see it as a good idea if it was far more ZOC related, and those ZOCs had much better "on sides" rules (no crossing rivers, etc (unless maybe bridges had capture points on either side, and it knew they were intact).

Years ago I suggested a sort of AI troop that was just "follow the leader." The extant inf models, and they follow the the guy, HC in this case, X meters spacing behind him. Those guys ARE the FRU, and shooting them depletes the spawn list of the FRU. So no magic armies, they are visible, on the map. Instead of a lone HC, in that case you'd see a squad moving, and you could shoot them. (the HC guy would chose to spawn that FRU version with troops in the first place, explicitly). The spawns would replace the AI dudes with a player til they were gone. So you get "walking FRU," but it's visible, and interdictable.

I could see something similar with the truck based MSPs, honestly. Show the trucks as full of inf, and if shot, or they crash, or despawn MIA, they attrit supply.

Edited by tater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, tater said:

Years ago I suggested a sort of AI troop that was just "follow the leader." The extant inf models, and they follow the the guy, HC in this case, X meters spacing behind him. Those guys ARE the FRU, and shooting them depletes the spawn list of the FRU. So no magic armies, they are visible, on the map. Instead of a lone HC, in that case you'd see a squad moving, and you could shoot them. The spawns would replace the AI dude with a player. So you get "walking FRU," but it's visible, and interdictable.

I'd love this.  Reminds me of the squad leader concept in BF2.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ZEBBEEE said:

I personally don’t believe that the hundreds of new players daily joining the game are disturbed by these.

They must however be disappointed by something the current spawning system doesn’t manage to answer. We need to find out. If an in-game poll suggests that a feature -that was completely removed- would be very much welcomed back, we should at least try out something in between.

Furthermore no one used the HCLMS so far... 

I personally would prefer our hard FMS spawning heavy guns and trucks but deployed at minimum 1km, as moveable LMS by feet but limited to jumps of maximum 100m, so that we maximize team cohesion. But on another part we have much more complaints about the lack of mobile spawns and camping situations, as being a « walking simulator ». The HC-placed FMS brings back a little bit of variety/complementarity to balance the current design which is still not perfect.

The agile development approach of CRS2 indeed has had some complicated temporarily outcomes, but if we don’t force the system to its limits, how could we understand its actual behaviour? We are still at the very beginning of major upgrades capabilities, let’s not be pessimistic about temporarily quick fixes.

Keep giving feedbacks from your actual ingame experience, however. That is very much appreciated!

So... why just HC then?.. I mean being that often out numbered in the HC department. The most I have seen on is 5 during primetime and I know for a fact the axis had almost twice that many on at the same time. Low pop times we often dont have HC on. It creates another issue of balance just piles on.  TBH, I dont like having anything but riffles spawn from the LMS - IF we have to have them at all.  I have taken out several of them map already. They are hard to find and do already pose a threat.  The Axis had one not so long ago that was well hidden but got behind our ATGs and picked them clean. I think we lasted 20 minutes tops and had no idea how they kept getting too us and we had a real FMS up and guys looking for them coming in just to find the LMS was inside our ZOC. By that time it was too late. I dont like PPLMS at all.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The decision to add Submachine Guns (Mas38, MP40, M1928 Thompson, M1A1 Thompson) were indeed to make the HC Mobile Spawn more viable. We intentionally did not expand the functionality of this spawn to maintain the value of the FMS (for example adding Anti-Tank would hurt the tank game, adding Engineers would cause Forward Bases to be destroyed faster), yet we also want to make sure HC officers are spawning their characters in and continuing the battle.

One thing WWII Online has a very hard time with is sustaining a battle. The manual effort involved in setting up AOs > Missions > Rolling Trucks > Deploying Mobile Spawns > Aggregating Troops there > Directing Troops > And then bam, spawn goes down.

When this happens, people log out of the game. The justification with the HC Mobile Spawn is that it takes a truck to initially deploy them, enough to continue the battle to some degree.

This has mostly been my decision after reviewing data and after being in-game more and seeing how battles are playing out. I'd like to see how it goes and I don't think it's going to tilt things badly, I think it is just enough to create the value and reminder for HC Officers that this tool exists.

Because it is deployed on a minor scale (only High Command & CRS Staff can deploy these units), a big fear of these tilting the battle or eliminating the value of Zones of Control is a bit out of context to my prediction. 

So I hope this explains a bit of the thought process that went into it, why the decision was made and implemented, and I hope that the High Command officers on both sides use this tool to sustain battles and help us continue the momentum of players joining the battle and enjoying themselves.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Btw, as soon as the HC is killed he cannot Respawn at his own HCLMS, since he cannot set it with a rifleman or a SMG. 

Again, this is completely different than a full LMS, which could be considered if it was deployed further of towns, moveable by small jumps only, and never beyond the frontline.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, XOOM said:

One thing WWII Online has a very hard time with is sustaining a battle. The manual effort involved in setting up AOs > Missions > Rolling Trucks > Deploying Mobile Spawns > Aggregating Troops there > Directing Troops > And then bam, spawn goes down.

When this happens, people log out of the game.

it took 2 years. glad ya'll finally see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very mixed on this.

Mostly against it, no MS w/o truck.

However, I see the advantage to be able to sustain attacks.

And seen how that helps infantry play.

But, overall, think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages - very tough call.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.