krazydog

Why are the Rats adding SMGs to HC FRUs?

133 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, ZEBBEEE said:

Think about it differently, a non-movable spawn results in endless attempts to place it as close as possible, which ends very badly most of the time. 

If we limit the hard spawn further of town, the setup will be much faster, safer and it will get more support, making its camping and ninja sapping much harder. 

And if this works as a backup spawn for moveable (weaker) MSPs, the cohesion and sustainability of attackers will be improved. In counterpart trucks and MLs can set up close to town as long as they have a real area control 

Or we make trucks not set off ews, but a fru does, as well as inf and guns, tanks etc...? 

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10 hours ago, tater said:

I hate the fact that the spawns are from every direction, even if it benefits me on attack.

The game where the town is overrun, and ei (not counting paras) are literally everywhere (or even possibly everywhere), should be the very end of a battle.

I like the @ZEBBEEE idea, only thing I would add is a better on-sides sensibility. Under the current play, seems like the setup would be the same, you'd move the FMS out to surround the town (and I do mean surround), then start placing closer spawns, all this before setting the AO. The supposed defenders would apparently all be asleep or at the bar til they are call to defense, then the first responders are supposed to set up a defense, with ei likely already hiding in the attics of buildings next to the CP.

You know EWS is displayed in game right? You can spawn at a town when ews goes active - so no eis all over town. If you ignore ews and it goes heavy, then yeah you have a problem.

The Big Fru + little fru with 180 degree front has some merit.... mmm need to think.... :)

 

S! Ian 

Edited by ian77

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2 hours ago, ian77 said:

Or we make trucks not set off ews, but a fru does, as well as inf and guns, tanks etc...? 

Trucks make noise we can hear, so why wouldn't the many hundreds of troops supposedly in town not hear it, particularly when they should be out of town, anyway.

If anything, EWS doesn't go off soon enough. The entire point of EWS is for defenses to be prepared---because in game defenses are manned after the fact, when in RL they would be put put in the dirt around town long before the attack. That's what EWS is for. The notion of "surprise" only makes sense in a WW2OL world where literally every single unit in a brigade is spawned into the game world, and stays where it is ordered, 24/7/365. Not some of the units, all of them. In that world, no EWS is needed, you stare ate nothing, and when the tank or group of guys a few yards away explodes, you know the enemy is around.

 

2 hours ago, ian77 said:

You know EWS is displayed in game right? You can spawn at a town when ews goes active - so no eis all over town. If you ignore ews and it goes heavy, then yeah you have a problem.

Yes. I did. I was in game in another AO. I happened to check neighboring towns (things calmed down at the CP I was guarding), and noticed the light EWS. A minute or 2 later I despawned, and made a mission at that town. I was the first, and for a while only player there. I heard an opel from the instant I spawned in. It drove around out of town, sopping a few times. I briefly got eyes on it, and heard what I thought was a JU 52, so I RTBed, and spawned a CAMLE, and shot down the JU, and 1 para (I had explosions on 3 paras, but only got 1 kill). Maybe 5-6 other than the one I know I killed. I RTBed before they hit the grouns, and sapwned a rifle, and started defending the spawnable. 1 other player showed up, then another. By the time the third player was there I sent out a side chat saying that the town had 3 defenders, and full EWS.

As I said above, the point of EWS is really to allow ffor at least a cursory prepared defense. If the total number of possible defenders was to be 10 people, that means time for those 10 to be in the field. ATGS and MGs where any rational CO would put them---with the enemy coming from where they MUST come, not from behind (short of paras).

We need persistent MSPs and defense missions. So when a town settles down, players can spawn in, and leave defenses outside of town. If there is a nearby hill commanding the town, that's where a bunch of your troops will be sleeping tonight. You won't start thinking about defense only after the enemy takes that hill. Even with those persistent spawn points, we need players to man them BEFORE the enemy attacks. If there are many 1000s of players, that's easy. If there are 30? Non-trivial.

Edited by tater
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*** If anything, EWS doesn't go off soon enough.

Agree, should prolly be 1k for trucks.

A truck racing in, sets off EWS at 700m, kills engine and can glide the next 300m nearly before anyone can spawn into town.

Suddenly, the enemy has an MS 400m out of town with zero chance to intercept, or even know which direction it came in from.

I know attacking hard, but think the 700m EWS range of trucks is too short too.

 

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If we add these two constraints that might help keep the action on the FB side, or at least the ones with the most armored support:

-limit the upgraded FMS deployment to road tiles only, 1000m out of enemy facilities (so you have basically North, East, South, West directions). It would spawn heavy AT/AA, and we could increase its damage threshold. No stealth for these but longer lasting. Heavier tank battles and CAS would also be more focused along the roads, consequently.

-limit the moveable « baby-MSPs » (manned trucks and ML-centric-spawn) to 1000m of the FMS (no constraints regarding enemy facilities), offering more stealth, flexibility and repeatability but as long as you have your backup FMS up

if you sum up the constraints ( deployments circles), you get a more localised higher density action, more easily deployed on the FB side, but still an organized squad could deploy behind at the cost of no stealth,

But wouldn’t this be too complex to understand? This would also force attrition battles. Spawnables should then really pushed 500m out of towns to support attackers in counterpart.

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*** But as some have said, wouldn’t this be too complex to understand?

Possibly, but these are just ideas.

 

It would seem to me, if a line was drawn from between friendly front line towns, then that is basically where the frontline is.

There would be an axis line (all the axis frontline towns line) and an allied front line (all the allies front line towns connected).

There, there would be the no-mans land that existed between those two lines. (have to look closer to see if any weird lines could happen as a result of this)

The rule is simple, FMS or baby MS (or any MS) can only be placed in your territory or in no mans land; not in enemy territory.

 

An interesting aside to this, is with how garrisons work, you could maybe allow the town to not be considered friendly when the AB was taken.

(would have to use controlled, not owned)

Then, upon AB capture, the friendly lines would be redrawn as the current town isn't controlled anymore (but is still owned).

This would allow attacker MS to be moved FAR closer, as the town with captured AB would then be in no mans land.

Not sure this is a great idea, but it would be possible.

 

Edited by delems
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*** This would also force attrition battles.

Kind of.

It would force more engagement frontal battles, but allow for flanking; w/o that feeling tater and others get (even I) that the enemy can appear from anywhere.

It would also reward attackers with towns that had more than 1 link to defender, as your no mans area for putting MS would be a larger area around the town.

Note, you can still para anywhere in town, or drive a truck full of squaddies around to the rear for action... you just can't sustain it.

 

Edited by delems

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2 hours ago, tater said:

If anything, EWS doesn't go off soon enough

the first year of the FMS had 1-2 spawns up per 3-5 hours.

the 3min build time, 1.5km audio, EWS, and AO made it way to easy to kill activity.

 

game went from ninja attackers to super-ninja defenders. it was very boring

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I got a good idea:  

 

Just eliminate the damn HC FRU!

 

Gameplay was better without them. 

Cheers! :)

 

 

 

Edited by krazydog

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Agree, HCMS not good for game play.

One player sneaks in, suddenly army 200m from your town.

Should be no HCMS at all - if you can't get a truck in to set a MS, you don't own area well enough to deserve an MS.

HCMS removes the countryside play the game needs more of; so not all just town battles.

 

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On 6/17/2019 at 7:52 PM, ian77 said:

You know EWS is displayed in game right? You can spawn at a town when ews goes active - so no eis all over town. If you ignore ews and it goes heavy, then yeah you have a problem.

The Big Fru + little fru with 180 degree front has some merit.... mmm need to think.... :)

 

S! Ian 

Sounds good , but because we play a game where the spawn pool is not endless, and actually every unit that gets RTBed matters for the next battle one can not just despawn . But actually one has to make an effort to get that RTB in one's despawn window. 

Let's say last town the defenders pushed the attackers back to the FB and now has taken the FB out , let's say it took 10 to 15 players via combined arms to do so . Well thats 10 to 15 units lost if they just despawn. 

What if the newly set AO  is just a farce to pull all these defenders there then gets rather pulled quickly or just stays active with minimal EWS and the old town where all these defenders just were has still an AO active. 

FB gets retaken and now they roll in force on the last town were 15 guys just despawned at the FB to react to the new AO . Well thats 15 various units lost from the spawn pool . 15 units less the enemy has to deal with all of a sudden.

 

If we want to stop this this from happening , maybe CPS don't go active till we get at least heavy INF EWS on a town so one side actually knows if it's an attack or not. It would eliminate the moling of towns too no Heavy EWS no need to be there and sit and guard a CP. 

Cause the way we have it now there is an AO one lonely EI sits in a bush  ( 2nd account ) and actually never even attempts for a CP only reason why he is there is to keep a few others busy . 

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I like the change. SMGs at a hc ms is not game changing like having AT units spawn in at silently placed ms' behind enemy lines.

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On 6/4/2019 at 8:36 PM, delems said:

Very mixed on this.

Mostly against it, no MS w/o truck.

However, I see the advantage to be able to sustain attacks.

And seen how that helps infantry play.

But, overall, think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages - very tough call.

 

***** BUMP TIME: *****  CRS PLEASE REMOVE HC-FRUS  (HC MS) FROM THE GAME  —- PLEASE. :)

1). HC FRUs just keep boring one-man mole attacks going on 2nd AOs for too long.  Totally boring game play if you try to defend these things.  

CRS should try spending 3 hours playtesting everyday a defense against walkable, movable HCMS mole attack on a town (2nd AO) .    I think you guys will quickly see what I mean.

2).   I also know a lot of Allies really don’t like HC FRUs too much right now,  because HC FRUs Allowed the Axis to take England last campaign.

Dear Rats::  PLease find a different way to encourage Players to join HC.

Krazydog

Edited by krazydog
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Not only that, HCMS means nothing but town fighting.

No recon in field, no country fights.

Simply 1 man army 200m from town silently deployed.

Less chance for an under pop side to interdict attack also.

Terrible feature.

Didn't we already go through this walking FRU thing once and remove it?

Why are we doing it again?

 

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Pretty sure HCMS is the worst type of game play.....

1) solo, requires no team.

2) Stealth, requires no battle.

3) Placed by town, means no country battles or fighting your way in.

 

HCMS is the antithesis of this game in every way.

Needs to be removed.

 

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If HCfms is not removed soon I will be forced to remove myself from the game after 14years so sad.

 

 

Edited by gagsy
wrong message
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Hey, guys, just give me some time to discuss it with HCs and Leadership. It was introduced with some good intentions; if it somehow failed of course I will try to push it on top of the topics to be looked at.

Very busy at rats HQ with the next patch, the payment portal update, and the other big projects going. 

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8 hours ago, ZEBBEEE said:

Hey, guys, just give me some time to discuss it with HCs and Leadership. It was introduced with some good intentions; if it somehow failed of course I will try to push it on top of the topics to be looked at.

Very busy at rats HQ with the next patch, the payment portal update, and the other big projects going. 

Of course it has failed, it failed the 1st time and killed the tanking game and natural obstacles become obsolete  ( like rivers)

Then it was done away with , YEAH .

And for some odd reason it came back as Rifle only and then  voila SMG were added. 

All it does is keep an AO active with one HCler that has 2 accounts , that walk one to the AO and as soon as it's in range he sets it in a bush and spawns his 2nd account and let him also sit in a bush , voila u got active AO with light EWS but nothing will ever happen and the few that spawn in to defend might as well break out a chess board . 

I don't think that's entertainment for either side. 

Do away with the silliness like so many have said heck I think most of us said don't even bring it back don't even try it. 

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On 10/8/2019 at 6:45 AM, ZEBBEEE said:

Hey, guys, just give me some time to discuss it with HCs and Leadership. It was introduced with some good intentions; if it somehow failed of course I will try to push it on top of the topics to be looked at.

Very busy at rats HQ with the next patch, the payment portal update, and the other big projects going. 

I think it was the best change in recent memory, and it's unit access should not be expanded in any way.  The main issue with the old FRU was the AT capability that allowed sappers and zooks to do disproportionate damage.  

 

At the end of the day, the HC FRU (or any other infantry-placed FRU tied to a very limited number of units accessible to all premium subscribers, which I think should have been the way forward) helps facilitate action.  There's nothing stopping me from walking directly from the FB if I want to set off EWS and mole a town on my own, with or without the HC FRU.  I can hide in a bush all day with a rifleman too. 

 

But that's not what it's about.  It's about creating action, creating battles.  And the only time trucks are very successful in that regard is when one side hasn't spawned in to defend a town because they are so severely underpopulated; likewise, defenses are more successful for the overpopulated side when they have the soldiers available to spawn in and hunt the trucks down before they can even set their FMS.  The problem gets 10x worse if the AO isn't brand new.  

 

For whatever reason, instead of making action easier to create, CRS 2.0 has taken numerous steps to make it harder.  This HC FRU was one of the times you threw in the right direction.  

 

It's also worthy to note that the majority of those against the SMG addition play Axis.  I'm not sure why that is but I find it very interesting nonetheless.  

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7 minutes ago, Capco said:

It's also worthy to note that the majority of those against the SMG addition play Axis.  I'm not sure why that is but I find it very interesting nonetheless.  

I never play Axis, and I am against this MSP even existing, don't care about the units in it---unless they added on-sides rules, then it is fine, and could indeed have any inf units in it at all and that would be fine, too.

 

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5 hours ago, Capco said:

But that's not what it's about.  It's about creating action, creating battles.  And the only time trucks are very successful in that regard is when one side hasn't spawned in to defend a town because they are so severely underpopulated; likewise, defenses are more successful for the overpopulated side when they have the soldiers available to spawn in and hunt the trucks down before they can even set their FMS.  The problem gets 10x worse if the AO isn't brand new.  

pretty much a direct quote from the guys that left lancers.

they got bored and stopped playing, simple as that.

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I just went thru the 4 pages of this thread and found  11 ppl against and 4 ppl for the hcms there were a number of ditherers that I couldn't define one way or the other. I'm just waiting for a definite yes/no from CRS about the future of the HCMS before I decide what to do about playing into the future.

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On 6/18/2019 at 0:00 AM, delems said:

*** If anything, EWS doesn't go off soon enough.

Agree, should prolly be 1k for trucks.

A truck racing in, sets off EWS at 700m, kills engine and can glide the next 300m nearly before anyone can spawn into town.

Suddenly, the enemy has an MS 400m out of town with zero chance to intercept, or even know which direction it came in from.

I know attacking hard, but think the 700m EWS range of trucks is too short too.

 

sorry to burst your buble but oples cant coast 700m they cant coast 100m

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shouldn't be fms without a truck at all it was taken out of game for a reason now they brought it back and sucks even worse

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